Newbie 1799 | URW 4 | Finally Over OMG

[nancy]

Raya/Drixx are probably scumbuddies

Why...?

Answer this?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.13

Success! People dress differently in the western cultures. There's a wounded adventurer here. We'll talk to him and then go get his weapon back for him.

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Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Raya36

(L-1): keyenpeydee, Elbirn, nancy

nancy

(L-2): Drixx, ThinkBig

itlepip

(L-4): nancy

Not Voting

(2): Raya36,

Elbirn

, itlepip,

nancy

Mod notes

: Keep it fun!

Deadline

:

(expired on 2017-06-26 14:00:00)

[/area]

[ThinkBig]

Intent to hammer

[Raya36]

Really sorry about not being on much. I've been a little unmotivated lately and I'm in the middle of exam week right now and forgot to v/la. I haven't really seen much I can defend myself with so that's part of why I've been unmotivated.

If I were scum it would be a pretty dumb move to kill the one player who reads me as scum the most. That's pretty much asking for suspicion (as I'm clearly already getting).

Suffleplay was pretty town and probably a good kill for mafia to make. If I were mafia it would have been a bad kill since it brought suspicion on me.

Like oh my god its so gross kill it kill it KILL IT

Can you explain what is so bad about this so I can defend myself rather than just calling it gross.

Besides that one quote I don't see any posts since my last one that actually explain why people are voting me. (Other than to avoid a replacement.)

You know what let's just save this slot from replacing.

VOTE: Raya

What's wrong with someone replacing. Wouldn't it be in town's best interest to let someone inactive replace out that way you can get a better read on the slot from the replacement. I don't see any town motivation behind this post.

[Elbirn]

UNVOTE:

If I were scum it would be a pretty dumb move to kill the one player who reads me as scum the most. That's pretty much asking for suspicion (as I'm clearly already getting).

Suffleplay was pretty town and probably a good kill for mafia to make. If I were mafia it would have been a bad kill since it brought suspicion on me.

Like oh my god its so gross kill it kill it KILL IT

Can you explain what is so bad about this so I can defend myself rather than just calling it gross.

Certainly!
It's an old axiom of mine that kills happen for a reason. Scum don't kill at random, and they don't kill to weave convoluted tinfoil hat conspiracy theories about whateverthehell. Therefore, shuffle wasn't killed to bring suspicion onto a town!raya; after all, if scum were interested in pushing a mislynch onto you, they'd want to keep the player pushing on you alive and have one more voice on their side.

What I've concluded here is that shuffle was killed for her reads, for being vocal against a scum!raya.

SO, your posts are gross because it's scum 101. Kill those who suspect you. When it's brought up, claim WIFOM. "I didn't do it, that'd be stupid" is the calling card of ze scums, remember that for future games.

[itlepip]

Thanks for the unvote El, I want to catchup before Raya gets killed but so far I don't think I mind, pretty bad slot so far.

[Raya36]

UNVOTE:

If I were scum it would be a pretty dumb move to kill the one player who reads me as scum the most. That's pretty much asking for suspicion (as I'm clearly already getting).

Suffleplay was pretty town and probably a good kill for mafia to make. If I were mafia it would have been a bad kill since it brought suspicion on me.

Like oh my god its so gross kill it kill it KILL IT

Can you explain what is so bad about this so I can defend myself rather than just calling it gross.

Certainly!
It's an old axiom of mine that kills happen for a reason. Scum don't kill at random, and they don't kill to weave convoluted tinfoil hat conspiracy theories about whateverthehell. Therefore, shuffle wasn't killed to bring suspicion onto a town!raya; after all, if scum were interested in pushing a mislynch onto you, they'd want to keep the player pushing on you alive and have one more voice on their side.

What I've concluded here is that shuffle was killed for her reads, for being vocal against a scum!raya.

SO, your posts are gross because it's scum 101. Kill those who suspect you. When it's brought up, claim WIFOM. "I didn't do it, that'd be stupid" is the calling card of ze scums, remember that for future games.

I wasn't saying that mafia was killing at random or conspiring against me and killed Shuffle to bring suspicion onto me. I was simply saying that if I were mafia Shuffle would not have been my first choice of a kill since if I was thinking ahead I would have seen that Shuffle was sus of me and killing them would only bring more sus onto me.

I can sort of see why you are coming to this conclusion but it still doesn't make complete sense to me. Can I ask you why scum would want to kill a player sus of them? I understand that they obviously don't want that sus but it isn't that hard to think ahead to the next day and see that town will probably just end up being even more sus of you since the player sussing you was nked. It would make more sense to me to save that player for a later nk so it doesn't look like you are desperate to eliminate the sus.

I will keep this is mind. I don't mean to be defending myself with solely this reason and I understand how it is a scummy defense but there really hasn't been many other reasons brought up as to why people are sus of me. I get that scum could easily nk someone sus of them and then say what I've been saying, I just am not used to this playstyle being used and I thought it would be too risky for scum to actually ever use which is why I never really considered it before.

[itlepip]

Who would you have killed then?

[itlepip]

Quick thoughts: Drixx, decent reaction to bombcat's weirdness
BK interaction are weird since I know the slot is town but man I would have been voting there so it is hard to separate opportunistic scum and just normal town play. That said Raya's has to be the worst entrance, 125 is pretty awful and given that everyone read the original post the fact that it took someone to say 'this is scummy' before people reacted (and I know they did because in a catchup you would quote the vote not the thing pointing it out if it was original)
Ugh 9-11 first pages of this game are cancer to read.
Anyway 256 is also pretty stupid, though I guess I can understand why newbies would think the scum claim was serious.

Drixx 423 is pretty bad.

Welp I have literally nothing

Elbrin is my favorite town for literally doing anything. I don't like that Key hasn't responded to the countless accusations of being with Raya. Raya's votes are awful but so has literally every other player. If scum doesn't win this game I don't know what to tell you. Nancy and Drixx are just frustating slots right now. In any other game I would want to lynch both of them. Also TB is decently town to me. Keyen is just awkward as all hell, although as scum I would probably just stop talking to the cancer. The turn around on the selfvote though is the main reason Keyen isn't out of the PoE.

I'm sorry how little sense this makes but this game is pretty awful.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Drixx

[Elbirn]

I wasn't saying that mafia was killing at random or conspiring against me and killed Shuffle to bring suspicion onto me. I was simply saying that if I were mafia Shuffle would not have been my first choice of a kill since if I was thinking ahead I would have seen that Shuffle was sus of me and killing them would only bring more sus onto me.

I can sort of see why you are coming to this conclusion but it still doesn't make complete sense to me. Can I ask you why scum would want to kill a player sus of them? I understand that they obviously don't want that sus but it isn't that hard to think ahead to the next day and see that town will probably just end up being even more sus of you since the player sussing you was nked. It would make more sense to me to save that player for a later nk so it doesn't look like you are desperate to eliminate the sus.

I will keep this is mind. I don't mean to be defending myself with solely this reason and I understand how it is a scummy defense but there really hasn't been many other reasons brought up as to why people are sus of me. I get that scum could easily nk someone sus of them and then say what I've been saying, I just am not used to this playstyle being used and I thought it would be too risky for scum to actually ever use which is why I never really considered it before.

Well the idea that I'm getting at is this: Mafia want to control the "flow" of town. They don't want players alive who suspect them. And they know that they can kill players who suspect them and get away with it the majority of the time, and the way that they get away with it is either by hoping no one notices, or if someone does notice they say it's all WIFOM, or someone declares that analyzing night kills is pointless, and then lo and behold the naysayers were all scum who didn't want you to pay attention to the man behind the curtain. It's a very easy situation to talk yourself out of, which is exactly why I insist on being a pain in the ass about it


Lemme change tact here and ask you a question: Raya, why do you think that Shuffle was Nightkilled?

[Elbirn]

Both scums are at L-1
But i'd like Burgerking to be lynched.

If you feel that both are scum, then why are you insisting someone change? You can easily hammer bombcat, who is defiantly telling us he won't claim or say anything. He's daring us to lynch him in what looks like a classic case of scum bravado to try and get us to blink. Take him up on his dare and hammer him. You literally just said he's scum. He's reacted to being put at L-1 in a scummy fashion.

Something is very off about that post keyen.

Itlepip, you just said this post was bad? Talk to me about this please?

Cuz what I'm seeing here is like...Good. I think? Drixx is telling key to hammer bombcat, directing pressure away from Burgerking, who has since flipped town. Why does Scum!Drixx even give enough of a fuck to stick his nose in here and redirect pressure off of a mislynch?

Talk to me about your Drixx read in general, pwetty pwease?

[itlepip]

ugh the logic assumes I am town but bear with it just to see where I am coming from, replacements make games annoying.

So we have Drixx, a strong player who has very little content in a gamestate where only a few players, (bombcat, shuffle and maybe Key) had any actual analysis that game. Key basically is listening to whatever he says. There are two lynches looming right now, and for the sake of analysis they are both town. One of them is BK, who is going to be a mislynch at some point of the game. He isn't actually playing the game or willing to defend himself. Second there is bombcat who has does play the game although has an awful personality which is NAI. Drixx doesn't even have any logic for either of the two slots being scum (or any content d1 after post 70), but seems to be voting annoying people. He pushes key to switch reads and hammer bomb without using any logic for why bomb is a better kill than BK. A good player doesn't trust that Key has 100% found the scumteam d1, especially in a game as empty as this one, but Drixx doesn't care and pushes for a hammer. He also doesn't After the town flip (and the shuffle kill (which Drixx would make after 441 but I think almost every scumteam imaginable would kill shuffle)) BK was the opposite wagon to a town flip, and since he doesn't play the game almost certainly dies there with maybe some suspicion on Drixx but more on Key for hammering a town and PoEing two town.

Then finally the day ends with the other wagon than bombcat being killed, and not only does Drixx not push on RC the next day at all but sheeps RC's scumread on Nancy. Plus he very little good content this game.

Plus the 'I would have killed Nancy' was meh, especially since we basically had a conftown. He hasn't done anything towny and did a scummy thing which I expect way more from town Drixx.

[Raya36]

Who would you have killed then?

If I were mafia I probably would have targetted a strong and vocal player that doesn't have any (or many) leads towards who mafia is. I would want to get rid of a player that I would think could have a good shot at finding scum but I would not want allow town to look back on that player's reads and sus us based on who they were sus of.

That said Raya's has to be the worst entrance, 125 is pretty awful and given that everyone read the original post the fact that it took someone to say 'this is scummy' before people reacted (and I know they did because in a catchup you would quote the vote not the thing pointing it out if it was original)
Ugh 9-11 first pages of this game are cancer to read.
Anyway 256 is also pretty stupid, though I guess I can understand why newbies would think the scum claim was serious.

Post 125: I never claimed it was an original thought which is why I quoted the post pointing it out. I wanted to say that I agreed but I didn't want to make it look like I was trying to take credit for the thought as mine.
Post 256: I'm used to a playstyle from a different site where claiming scum like that is extrmely rare. I don't think I had ever seen anyone claim scum before actually. That's why I took it so seriously. I didn't see any town motivation behind the claim so I just assumed the claim was true and that they were scum, which I now see isn't always the case.

Well the idea that I'm getting at is this: Mafia want to control the "flow" of town. They don't want players alive who suspect them. And they know that they can kill players who suspect them and get away with it the majority of the time, and the way that they get away with it is either by hoping no one notices, or if someone does notice they say it's all WIFOM, or someone declares that analyzing night kills is pointless, and then lo and behold the naysayers were all scum who didn't want you to pay attention to the man behind the curtain. It's a very easy situation to talk yourself out of, which is exactly why I insist on being a pain in the ass about it


Lemme change tact here and ask you a question: Raya, why do you think that Shuffle was Nightkilled?

That makes sense. I'll keep this in mind future games then.

As for why Shuffle was killed, I think it might be because they were one of the more vocal players. They didn't have a huge amount of posts but they were engaging in conversation, scumhunting and they seem to be a strong player. I also don't think they would have been an easu mislynch for scum to push. It is of course possible that they had a lead on who scum is but as I had been explaining I don't really like to depend on that since so many factors go into who is NKed. Maybe it was a mix of both? Being a strong and active player as well as maybe having a slight scum read or slight lead towards who is scum?

[Elbirn]

ugh the logic assumes I am town but bear with it just to see where I am coming from, replacements make games annoying.

So we have Drixx, a strong player who has very little content in a gamestate where only a few players, (bombcat, shuffle and maybe Key) had any actual analysis that game. Key basically is listening to whatever he says. There are two lynches looming right now, and for the sake of analysis they are both town. One of them is BK, who is going to be a mislynch at some point of the game. He isn't actually playing the game or willing to defend himself. Second there is bombcat who has does play the game although has an awful personality which is NAI. Drixx doesn't even have any logic for either of the two slots being scum (or any content d1 after post 70), but seems to be voting annoying people. He pushes key to switch reads and hammer bomb without using any logic for why bomb is a better kill than BK. A good player doesn't trust that Key has 100% found the scumteam d1, especially in a game as empty as this one, but Drixx doesn't care and pushes for a hammer. He also doesn't After the town flip (and the shuffle kill (which Drixx would make after 441 but I think almost every scumteam imaginable would kill shuffle)) BK was the opposite wagon to a town flip, and since he doesn't play the game almost certainly dies there with maybe some suspicion on Drixx but more on Key for hammering a town and PoEing two town.

Then finally the day ends with the other wagon than bombcat being killed, and not only does Drixx not push on RC the next day at all but sheeps RC's scumread on Nancy. Plus he very little good content this game.

Plus the 'I would have killed Nancy' was meh, especially since we basically had a conftown. He hasn't done anything towny and did a scummy thing which I expect way more from town Drixx.

I think I already know what I think about this, but rather than commenting I'd like to ask Drixx to reply to this.

[Elbirn]

As for why Shuffle was killed, I think it might be because they were one of the more vocal players. They didn't have a huge amount of posts but they were engaging in conversation, scumhunting and they seem to be a strong player. I also don't think they would have been an easu mislynch for scum to push.

It is of course possible that they had a lead on who scum is

but as I had been explaining I don't really like to depend on that since so many factors go into who is NKed. Maybe it was a mix of both? Being a strong and active player as well as maybe having a slight scum read or slight lead towards who is scum?

With this in mind, what is your read on Key?

[Raya36]

As for why Shuffle was killed, I think it might be because they were one of the more vocal players. They didn't have a huge amount of posts but they were engaging in conversation, scumhunting and they seem to be a strong player. I also don't think they would have been an easu mislynch for scum to push.

It is of course possible that they had a lead on who scum is

but as I had been explaining I don't really like to depend on that since so many factors go into who is NKed. Maybe it was a mix of both? Being a strong and active player as well as maybe having a slight scum read or slight lead towards who is scum?

With this in mind, what is your read on Key?

Shuffle read Key as town if I'm correct, so it doesn't indicate that Key could have NKed Shuffle because of sus. There is still a chance that Key is scum and NKed Shuffle for some of the other reasons above. To back this up (even though it isn't that strong) could be this post.

I love shuffleplay's posts

There was no explanation to back up this opinion and this could easily be scum planning ahead to NK Shuffle and take any chance of suspicion on them away.

[Elbirn]

So conclusion- both Raya and Burgerking have made some pretty scummy and opportunistic voting choices in my eyes. It isn't just that they put multiple wagons at L-1, but the way they voted with little to no original thought or explanation of their own, just coasting along with the wagon. Idk if Raya/Burger scumteam makes a lot of sense to me at this point, but my scum pool currently is- Raya, Burger, and Flog slot/ThinkBig

Also hey town, if I die tonight, pleaaaaaseeee look into Raya, ThinkBig

So raya, you are correct, I have no idea why I thought shuffle was scumreading key.

Now that I've actually done my homework: with what you said earlier in mind, do you think anything of the flogger/thinkbig slot?

[Raya36]

I actually do have thoughts on that slot. My biggest problem is with Flog. Just going to go back and grab some of my older posts.

I am as certain as any human being can possibly be of the fact that keepers is mafia and therefore my goal as of now is to manipulate and reason with the town, and his partner, to vote him out of the game. My gameplay has been resembling that of someone trying to see who is and isn't voting keepers, as he is mafia, and trying to find which person out of the group left is his partner.

It is possible that his partner might try to save him, as you seem to be doing.

Or maybe his partner would vote him out to distance themselves from him, as bombcat is doing.

Or maybe his partner might just not be participating, also possible.

You seem extremely dismissive towards my reads and that is quite suspect.

I don't really like your confidence. Sure, it's good to be confident in your reads but you're being way overconfident. There is no possible way you could be this sure about someone being scum on D1. It's just not possible. I also don't like how you say your goal is to manipulate town. That is exactly what scum does. Manipulate to mislynch. I also don't like how your constantly reminding us that you're town and throwing out such confident town reads. Kind of looks like scum trying to get people on their side. And only scum needs to remind people they are town that many times.

I singled out this specific post because you say your method is to analyze who is and is not voting for Keyen then you highlight about every single possibility which goes to show that your method isn't giving any real evidence of anything since there are so many possibilities.

There's a conversation between me and Flog after this post but I didn't think it was worth quoting. Feel free to read it though.

I was actually just about to vote for Flog until I saw that they had been banned. I decided to look into the entire playerslot rather than just Flog to see if Flog was just trolling or if it is actually likely they were scum. I looked at Rikku's posts who had been replaced by Flog and I didn't really find much, which is sort of the problem. Rikku posted a few times but nothing was really game advancing. He asked a few questions but I didn't see any follow ups and I don't think any reads were given. It was still early on in the game so it might not mean anything but I wanted to point that out anyway.

This was the last I had posted about this slot. Flog was who made it my strongest scum read so it definitely deserves more looking into now that Thinkbig has replaced in.

Raya's post are really town. If she's scum, I think she's doing a good job faking it as a newbie.

raya's posts aren't really town.

if shes scum and u're town then u did bad at le scumhunting

I do not like this post. I do not like this at all.

Kind of jumped onto the Burger sus wagon without mucj explanation.

VOTE: Burgerking

There are several things that pings me about this slot. First is his post #137. Burgerking calls Raya scum and accuses him of trying too hard to sound town. This occurs right after Raya cases him and votes him at post #125. Every single person that has voted Burgerking, he has blatantly OMGUS'd in a manner that I find scummy. Furthermore, his vote on Keyn feels opportunistic.

There is no attempt from burgerking to game solve and no attempt to scum hunt.

Here he gives his reasoning which does make up for the lack of reasoning earlier but it still is joining a wagon.

Hi nancy <3

VOTE: bombcat

I want this dead today.

Hopping on yet another sus wagon. Possible they are pushing for mislynches where there is popular demand.

Could you give us an explanation, TB?

Once I am not phone posting, I'll go through and type out my casebook

I think were still waiting on this.

Raya36 - scum. Although I'm worried that the shuffleplay kill was a frame kill, I think some of Raya's post and votes feel rather opportunistic to me.

Another sus wagon.

drixx - scum lean. Hasn't really done much scum hunting this game and has not really tried to move the game forward. I understand he is sick and has medical issues so I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And another.


Okay so most of his scum reads were already people who have been read scum before his posts or there have been actual wagons for. So he's pretty sheepy.

Not one of the three players who had this slot have done anything to make me think they are town which is why I scumread the slot.

[Elbirn]

Hmm. So would you hypothesize that scum!TB would shoot shuffle?

Raya's post are really town. If she's scum, I think she's doing a good job faking it as a newbie.

raya's posts aren't really town.

if shes scum and u're town then u did bad at le scumhunting

I do not like this post. I do not like this at all.

Kind of jumped onto the Burger sus wagon without mucj explanation.

This is kind of interesting; what do you think of the fact that he was defending you in the post you quoted?

[Drixx]

Umm... I'll let Nancy point out the games which represent why a scum me would just kill her and avoid having to deal with her particular brand of crazy. Like ... LOL.

ThinkBig should know better. He's watched me play enough.

VOTE: Raya

[Drixx]

That's L-1, etc... etc...

[Elbirn]

Hi Drixx. If you have a moment?

ugh the logic assumes I am town but bear with it just to see where I am coming from, replacements make games annoying.

So we have Drixx, a strong player who has very little content in a gamestate where only a few players, (bombcat, shuffle and maybe Key) had any actual analysis that game. Key basically is listening to whatever he says. There are two lynches looming right now, and for the sake of analysis they are both town. One of them is BK, who is going to be a mislynch at some point of the game. He isn't actually playing the game or willing to defend himself. Second there is bombcat who has does play the game although has an awful personality which is NAI. Drixx doesn't even have any logic for either of the two slots being scum (or any content d1 after post 70), but seems to be voting annoying people. He pushes key to switch reads and hammer bomb without using any logic for why bomb is a better kill than BK. A good player doesn't trust that Key has 100% found the scumteam d1, especially in a game as empty as this one, but Drixx doesn't care and pushes for a hammer. He also doesn't After the town flip (and the shuffle kill (which Drixx would make after 441 but I think almost every scumteam imaginable would kill shuffle)) BK was the opposite wagon to a town flip, and since he doesn't play the game almost certainly dies there with maybe some suspicion on Drixx but more on Key for hammering a town and PoEing two town.

Then finally the day ends with the other wagon than bombcat being killed, and not only does Drixx not push on RC the next day at all but sheeps RC's scumread on Nancy. Plus he very little good content this game.

Plus the 'I would have killed Nancy' was meh, especially since we basically had a conftown. He hasn't done anything towny and did a scummy thing which I expect way more from town Drixx.

I think I already know what I think about this, but rather than commenting I'd like to ask Drixx to reply to this.

[Raya36]

Hmm. So would you hypothesize that scum!TB would shoot shuffle?

Raya's post are really town. If she's scum, I think she's doing a good job faking it as a newbie.

raya's posts aren't really town.

if shes scum and u're town then u did bad at le scumhunting

I do not like this post. I do not like this at all.

Kind of jumped onto the Burger sus wagon without mucj explanation.

This is kind of interesting; what do you think of the fact that he was defending you in the post you quoted?

I think it's possible. Shuffle was sus of Flog/the slot however as I said before scum might not want to go for those sus of them. Also this post makes me think TB would be careful about NKing Shuffle. That said I still scumread TB.

Also hey town, if I die tonight, pleaaaaaseeee look into Raya, ThinkBig

It's a bit odd to defend me like that then later sus me. Looking at it from the perspective that they are scum, they could have picked a player they consider towny to defend for towncred then changed their read later as sus moved to me they changed their read on me. Looking at it from the perspective that they are town they could have read me as strong town therefore defended me then changed their mind later.

[nancy]

UNVOTE: