Newbie 1797: Space | Endgame

[Human Sequencer]

I get a lot more of a frantic last-ditch attempt feeling from BV's posts than I do from esires.

It's difficult for me to engage with this game because it feels won to me.

Somebody's probably gonna say something dumb like 'HS is scum coasting to victory after a hard bus' and I'm gonna lol.

This post is making me want to say something dumb like 'HS is scum coasting to victory after a hard bus'.

lol

[Plotinus]

VC 3.07

Central Cygnus Skyscape

Explanation: In cosmic brush strokes of glowing hydrogen gas, this beautiful skyscape unfolds across the plane of our Milky Way Galaxy near the northern end of the Great Rift and the center of the constellation Cygnus the Swan. A 36 panel mosaic of telescopic image data, the scene spans about six degrees. Bright supergiant star Gamma Cygni (Sadr) to the upper left of the image center lies in the foreground of the complex gas and dust clouds and crowded star fields. Left of Gamma Cygni, shaped like two luminous wings divided by a long dark dust lane is IC 1318 whose popular name is understandably the Butterfly Nebula. The more compact, bright nebula at the lower right is NGC 6888, the Crescent Nebula. Some distance estimates for Gamma Cygni place it at around 1,800 light-years while estimates for IC 1318 and NGC 6888 range from 2,000 to 5,000 light-years.

Image and text credit

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BlackVoid

(2): Human Sequencer, esires

L-2

NotTheRealPaul

(1): Dunkerdoodles

esires

(1): NotTheRealPaul

Not Voting

(2): Blackvoid, skitter30

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

The day 3 deadline is in

: (expired on 2017-07-06 19:59:10)

Mod Notes

Hi, I'm the backup mod!

-ThinkBig, the moderator, is V/LA on weekends and on Jewish holidays. Plotinus, the backup moderator, will be modding during this time.
-skitter30 is V/LA on shabbat and Jewish holidays.

[Human Sequencer]

In case it isn't obvious I'll lynch between [esires, BV] on the condition we lynch the other tomorrow.

[BlackVoid]

If we mislynch and you are alive for 3P, there's a decent chance you'll make the decision so that's up to you isn't it.

But talk to me about reads a bit more.

[BlackVoid]

Tbh having two people coordinate and gang up like this with walls of text just feels kinda shitty and not fun, so I'm sorta over it guys.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: esires

What was your thought process at this point? I asked skitter to post her analysis at the same time as me so I could read

her

. I think it shows that I'm still considering the possibility of you being town, still looking elsewhere to make sure we're not two townies being setup by scum.

For someone who refused to consider the possibility of me being town right from the beginning of D1, this feels like a very unfair reaction.

[BlackVoid]

I decided to go ahead and dig up games from icemanE (esires' past life) to get a better sense of him as a player and this jumped out to me. So, eight years ago, you said this:

Subject: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

TBH, I'm not a huge fan of big summarative posts. I prefer to reread the game as a base for my own understanding, and then jump immediately into the relevant issues at hand.

As far as the lynch today, I would have hammered myself based on Toro's self-vote alone. In my experience,

self-voting is almost always a scum ploy.

Additionally, calling for your own lynch as he did is a scare tactic. He also essentially disappeared when the pressure mounted, at least in terms of his actual participation in the game.

You said you didn't play mafia in the intervening eight years so can you go over what changed?

[BlackVoid]

I don't understand how you misinterpreted the reason behind us posting at the same time - it was to read each other, not "gang up" on you whatever that means and I'm not sure what you thought was happening. But I can see that reaction from someone who thinks calling for their own lynch is a good "scare tactic."

[BlackVoid]

You did the same thing in this game where you hard-pushed someone that L-1'd themselves on page one. Obviously, the circumstances are different but you do seem to think self-votes are scum-motivated. Your play your towngames also seems completely different to your play here. You are aggressive, pushy and there's very little of that "sheeping good cases" and going with the flow that you are doing here.

As to whether you just became a different person after so long, I'll have to check your scumgames for that.

Okay, this is you after a scumgame:

Subject: Mini 715: Legends of Literature Mafia (Over)

Yeah, I've used that self-voting gambit a few times and usually it works a HELL of a lot better than that.

But I think I made too strong a case for my own lynch. Plus, wtf, despite the fact that we had 4 of us, three of us died before day 3 started. Town owned that game. I'm still kind of pissed that my claim seemed to be the main reason I got lynched, but not that pissed, haha. But it's freaking MOBY DICK! I didn't lie about the book, anyways. And yeah, we killed tenchi. Which pretty much did it for us.

Congrats everybody. I think this was my last game, at least for awhile. I'm pretty busy with school work, so thanks for the good times. Adios!

Well, it's not going to work now.

VOTE: esires

[NotTheRealPaul]

So can we vote up eaires?

Im feeling good about BV and skitter as town and my HS paranoia is dying down (still would like more interaction from u tho).

[NotTheRealPaul]

skitter who is in ur lynhpool? Im assuming esires, but do u still consider BV a potential lynch?

Would u ever consider HS?

Ya I know these are like the questions u posed to BV a bit, and im considering ur qnswers NAI just wanna know where ur head is at.

That said, my only real scumread (by PoE) is esires. Very slight paranoia for HS, as I may have overthought Drixx's med induced posting.

[esires]

Look guys, there is just no way I'm getting out from under this mountain of questions. It's just too much, I'm sorry, but I can't sit here and answer 50 simultaneous questions like this.

[BlackVoid]

I have more paranoia of skitter than HS as I get more subtle setting-up/buddying vibes from her. HS is just being blatant - lynch these two people I'm checking out, game is solved. I don't know why skitter would say I've inspired her to do stuff and copy my posting style.

I was *really* liking BV's content, and you've inspired me to ISO esires

I was working on a BV style analysis of esires,

Doing a BV style post-by-post thing:

It reminded me of this post by scum in a recent game and it started to weird me out:

I've been very lazy lately, but void kinda inspired me to do some work of my own.

Also, something about the way she told me I was being transparent, saying that my push on esires was convenient, and that she didn't like me cutting the interaction short felt like her strategy was to buddy me today and get esires lynched, then set up a lynch on me the following day. Her ISO of esires confirmed this paranoia as she didn't seem particularly confident that he was scum with Drixx but was willing to vote him for what I felt were somewhat weak reasons. I also didn't think our analysis overlapped that much or that our thought processes on esires' ISO were that similar.

So, then I dug into esires' past games to see if I could find something that would clear him and instead I found that he is known to gambit self-vote as scum which makes him way more likely to be scum. So yeah, I think it's esires but I'd like to know why you are more confident on skitter than HS. I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility for Drixx to manufacture that argument and HS to coast after that but I found HS' reactions to Drixx a lot more genuine. I think the way skitter pushed Drixx is well within the range of her scumgame I read. She did "forget" about Drixx on D1 which is kinda weird.

[NotTheRealPaul]

Look guys, there is just no way I'm getting out from under this mountain of questions. It's just too much, I'm sorry, but I can't sit here and answer 50 simultaneous questions like this.

if ur town fuck u

if ur scum then yay

[NotTheRealPaul]

esires that wwas harsh i apologize.

If ur town just take it one at a time I know there are a shitton of questions. We have a week u can prove urself inno

[NotTheRealPaul]

BV I feel ya but Im reading skitters as pretty town. His comments on my HS suspicions really did it for me. Like I feel like the way she dismissed it was townie. Had she agreed it woulda been NAI, but shutting it down kinda/dismissing would be a dumbass move for scum!skitters because of the influence she has in the game, my known sheeping of her when confused and HS being so checked out. Like scum!skitters coulda/woulda left that open atleast so that D4 she had more options.

[NotTheRealPaul]

ebwop her comments*

[BlackVoid]

Why would she "leave open" the possibility of HS-scum? If skitter is scum, she's already got two lynches (me and esires) set up quite nicely. That's all it takes to win and she doesn't need any more. Throwing shade on HS would mean that

he

would start to consider the possibility that she's scum which is pretty bad. Defending him and you and keeping both of you on her side while pushing suspicion of me and esires would the winning strategy here. If she's scum, she'd just go into D4 and 1v1 me. With the way HS is talking, there's a good chance he'll lynch me if he's the decider.

[NotTheRealPaul]

Why would she "leave open" the possibility of HS-scum? If skitter is scum, she's already got two lynches (me and esires) set up quite nicely. That's all it takes to win and she doesn't need any more. Throwing shade on HS would mean that

he

would start to consider the possibility that she's scum which is pretty bad. Defending him and you and keeping both of you on her side while pushing suspicion of me and esires would the winning strategy here. If she's scum, she'd just go into D4 and 1v1 me. With the way HS is talking, there's a good chance he'll lynch me if he's the decider.

skitters seemed to be reading u as town. Maybe I misread her as her agreement/liking of ur pists seemed to indicate she no longer sred u slot and u were more than a townlean at this point.

I guess if skitters isnt townreading u as much as I thought then u have a point.

[skitter30]

Hey, I'm like following all of this, but I'm at work, will respond when I get home (which I know is when BV goes to work, sorry).

And I hate phone-posting, so I need to get on my laptop before I respond to everything lol.

[BlackVoid]

I'm actually going to be free today after about 5:30 or so to look over the game again. When you get here, would you mind also explaining your 1172? I read somewhere while digging through your games that you felt bad about mislynching players as scum and this one fit the mold.

On the other hand, I don't know why town would apologize so much because esires' post didn't make much sense to me. I just don't understand how he could interpret simultaneous posting to read each other as "ganging up on him." I also thought it was a bit unfair to appeal to empathy there when I've been trying to engage both him and HS since the beginning of the week and they both pretty much shut me out as "you are scum because of Not Chara and your D2 play and interactions with Drixx and nothing you do will ever change my mind" when I've posted more than twice the content in a week than Not Chara managed in almost a month.

I don't know what reaction I expected from you but that just stuck out to me.

[esires]

BV I have a hard time swallowing that you can't imagine why two people coordinating giant posts against another player could be interpreted by that player as an overly aggressive move. "We were only listing off everything that sucks about George to evaluate each other! Stop whining George, you suck!"

I also have a hard time imagining that you don't think people change substantially over the course of nearly a decade. Do their mafia games change? I dunno, maybe? If they haven't been playing mafia and they're trying to get back into it, can you truly not imagine a scenario where they'd want to ease back into the game, and they maybe they aren't as in-tune with it as they were? Have you ever played a sport and then not played it for 8 years? It takes awhile to get back into it.

I'm perfectly willing to answer some questions but I can answer like, the top three from each of you. A post answering the questions you've both asked of me would, at this point, take me 4 hours to put together.

[Dunkerdoodles]

In case it isn't obvious I'll lynch between [esires, BV] on the condition we lynch the other tomorrow.

same here, esires today BV tommorrow.
im probaly going to be the night kill tonight.
VOTE: esires

L-1 i think

[skitter30]

skitter who is in ur lynhpool? Im assuming esires, but do u still consider BV a potential lynch?

Would u ever consider HS?

Ya I know these are like the questions u posed to BV a bit, and im considering ur qnswers NAI just wanna know where ur head is at.

That said, my only real scumread (by PoE) is esires. Very slight paranoia for HS, as I may have overthought Drixx's med induced posting.

Basically, I'm not lynching you, ever, I don't think. If you're scum, I think you won. Dunker is confirmed. My HS paranoia is increasing. I know I basically set him up for the 'lol' above, but I was hoping he'd elaborate on that; there's been like no interaction from him today. I'm worried he's using our collective uncertainty between esires and BV to win the game. All he needs is two mislynches, and he's set himself up nicely for that.

Betweeen esires and BV, I feel like esires is independently more scummy, but NC has sketchy associative partners tells with Drixx (I still want to ISO them). BV has been supertown, but he hasn't really overlapped with Drixx, so those tells didn't really have an opportunity to form.

That's why I'm torn. I can see esires as scum, but I don't know if I'm seeing esires/Drixx. I see BV as town, but Drixx/NC seems like a realistic possibility. This is why I feel like I'm missing something. Of these two possibilities, I'm leaning more towards scum!esires, because of how strong BV's day 3 is.

(Yes, I'm fully aware of the fact that BV may now come and say that I'm leaving my options open for day4 or whatever, but I'm trying to be honest and this is where I'm at). So, in, short, I want to dual ISO Drixx/NC and Drixx/BV before I remove him from my lynchpool.

BV I feel ya but Im reading skitters as pretty town. His comments on my HS suspicions really did it for me. Like I feel like the way she dismissed it was townie. Had she agreed it woulda been NAI, but shutting it down kinda/dismissing would be a dumbass move for scum!skitters because of the influence she has in the game, my known sheeping of her when confused and HS being so checked out. Like scum!skitters coulda/woulda left that open atleast so that D4 she had more options.

I mean, I think scum!me basically has won. I have two obvious mislynches, and you've been willing to sheep me, so I probably have your vote. Like, I don't think I'm getting lynched here, and pretty much everyone has been heavily townreading me and are willing to listen to me. So I don't think that scum!me needs to leave that open, so I don't think it's a good reason to townread me.

skitters seemed to be reading u as town. Maybe I misread her as her agreement/liking of ur pists seemed to indicate she no longer sred u slot and u were more than a townlean at this point.

I guess if skitters isnt townreading u as much as I thought then u have a point.

This is why I'm uncertain here, because I'm townreading BV, but NC has sketchy associatives with Drixx :/

[skitter30]

I have more paranoia of skitter than HS as I get more subtle setting-up/buddying vibes from her. HS is just being blatant - lynch these two people I'm checking out, game is solved. I don't know why skitter would say I've inspired her to do stuff and copy my posting style.

I was *really* liking BV's content, and you've inspired me to ISO esires

I was working on a BV style analysis of esires,

Doing a BV style post-by-post thing:

It reminded me of this post by scum in a recent game and it started to weird me out:

I've been very lazy lately, but void kinda inspired me to do some work of my own.

Also, something about the way she told me I was being transparent, saying that my push on esires was convenient, and that she didn't like me cutting the interaction short felt like her strategy was to buddy me today and get esires lynched, then set up a lynch on me the following day. Her ISO of esires confirmed this paranoia as she didn't seem particularly confident that he was scum with Drixx but was willing to vote him for what I felt were somewhat weak reasons. I also didn't think our analysis overlapped that much or that our thought processes on esires' ISO were that similar.

So, then I dug into esires' past games to see if I could find something that would clear him and instead I found that he is known to gambit self-vote as scum which makes him way more likely to be scum. So yeah, I think it's esires but I'd like to know why you are more confident on skitter than HS. I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility for Drixx to manufacture that argument and HS to coast after that but I found HS' reactions to Drixx a lot more genuine. I think the way skitter pushed Drixx is well within the range of her scumgame I read. She did "forget" about Drixx on D1 which is kinda weird.

Why is scum!me buddying you? You're one of my obvious mislynches, so why am I trying to buddy you exactly? How does it benefit scum!me to buddy town!you when scum!me wants to mislynch you? It's not like scum!me needs to manipulate you into voting esires or anything; you're doing it already.

I used the word 'inspire' because I could see you put tons of effort into solving this game, and I felt like the least I could is to do the same.

And I liked the way you organized posts like 1060, and I was doing an ISO, so I thought that would be a nice way to organize it. Overall, I really like your posts and I like the way you think; you clearly lay out your thought process, and it makes it easy to understand your POV and mindset. People like Paul are kinda hard to read for me, because he says things, but doesn't articulate his reasoning that well. I like get what you're thinking, and it's logical and makes sense. Hence, transparent.

And your push on esires *is* convenient, since it's your best mislynch option if you're scum. But I'm starting to come around to the idea that he may actually be scum though.

I'll do the esires ISOs similarities in another post in a bit.

[ThinkBig]

bumping