Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Kelvin Smith]

VOTE: Agent Sparkles

Alban, let's do this.

Honestly, at this point, I'll settle for a Titus lynch. I don't like that it won't confirm MathBlade's alignment if she flips town, but I'm almost willing to make that bet , if people are just going to be obstinate about MathBlade for no good reason. It's certainly a worse play than lynching Math, but it's better than any other possible wagon in this setup.

Yeah you've just shredded why I thought your slot was town. You can't seriously push Math as a strategic lynch and then turn around and want to lynch the person Math says is town. That's just garbage. I can't get why any rational player would do this and it reeks of you just wanting to push anywhere BUT the n1 doctors.

Wait, what's this about

Night 1

Doctors now?

Also, no, Math is the logical lynch. You're the slightly less logical, but still better than everything else lynch, because I'm starting to think you're just scum, so your scum flip is going to prove that Math is town.

Why would I even be afraid of lynching one of the Doctors as scum? I mean, you may not have read any of my scum game PTs, but standard operating procedure for me is to tell my partners that I will bus them without hesitation, if they don't appear town to me. I don't give a fuck about my goddamn partners living or dying and I probably never will. Most of the time, I'm too fucking arrogant to think that I will ever get lynched as scum. And replacing into a widely townread slot (apparently), what would I have to gain to go against the grain when a consensus bus/mislynch is way easier?

Like, are you guys both scum or can you really not stop and look at the situation from my perspective? Seriously, if you're town, just put yourself in my shoes for a second and think about what I'm doing right now and why it's the least scum-motivated thing I could do. Like, sure, I try to emulate my town play when I'm scum, but how is this wildly unpopular push on MathBlade the way to do that? I've got a recent history of being fairly amenable to the reads and wills of others, especially replacing into a large game. Why would I have to shake that shit up as scum?

This post is a scumslip.

If Titus flips scum (which she won't) that would auto confirm me as scum as I would be lying about an innocent on Titus. This reads exactly like you know I am Town and fucked yo.

Wow... That's the biggest fucking stretch I've seen in a long time. Like, that's so clearly a typo. As you said, if Titus flips scum, it can literally only prove that you are scum. That doesn't read like I know you're town, it reads like I'm a fucking idiot who accidentally wrote the wrong word. The fact that you're willing to stretch so far for an obvious typo further just keeps enforcing my feelings about you. From my perspective, it feels like you're really scared that I'm zeroing in on you.

[Kelvin Smith]

So there are two compromises I'm willing to make right now. Since the majority of people seem to be unwilling to act logically upon this Math lynch. Hopefully some people will come around, but if nobody is willing to lynch Math or Titus, then I am willing to lynch whatever shitty Doctor pick everybody wants or myself, on the condition that Math is lynched tomorrow or that you lynch anybody who tries to back out on that deal.

[Titus]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

[NJAC]

Posting tonight.

[Almost50]

VC 3.08

Navy

(3): NJAC, Titus, Vedith,

Mathblade

(2): itlepip, Kelvin Smith,

Agent Sparkles

(1): NotTheRealPaul,

Kelvin Smith

(1): Mathblade,

Not Voting

(3): Navy, alban, Agent Sparkles,
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Replacing both Sparkles & Navy

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-07-07 21:50:00)

[Kelvin Smith]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

Explain a better strategic move to me from my perspective, not yours. I don't give a damn if you claim to know you're town, that doesn't help me.

[Titus]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

Explain a better strategic move to me from my perspective, not yours. I don't give a damn if you claim to know you're town, that doesn't help me.

Any other doc claim. Lynch Navy. If Navy scum, doc resolution resolved we can just cop lurkers.

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right. If it's not, we stop the nonsense and move on.

[Kelvin Smith]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

Explain a better strategic move to me from my perspective, not yours. I don't give a damn if you claim to know you're town, that doesn't help me.

Any other doc claim. Lynch Navy. If Navy scum, doc resolution resolved we can just cop lurkers.

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right. If it's not, we stop the nonsense and move on.

I mean, that doesn't really solve the Doc situation at all, it just solves the excess Doc situation.

Also, why do you want to wait for MyLo to lynch Math, when you said earlier we should lynch them the Day before LyLo?

Furthermore, explain how this is remotely superior strategically. Why are either Navy or AS scum? Why are they scummier than Math? Why is it smarter? You haven't explained the strategic advantage of any of these things from my perspective.

[Titus]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

Explain a better strategic move to me from my perspective, not yours. I don't give a damn if you claim to know you're town, that doesn't help me.

Any other doc claim. Lynch Navy. If Navy scum, doc resolution resolved we can just cop lurkers.

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right. If it's not, we stop the nonsense and move on.

I mean, that doesn't really solve the Doc situation at all, it just solves the excess Doc situation.

Also, why do you want to wait for MyLo to lynch Math, when you said earlier we should lynch them the Day before LyLo?

Furthermore, explain how this is remotely superior strategically. Why are either Navy or AS scum? Why are they scummier than Math? Why is it smarter? You haven't explained the strategic advantage of any of these things from my perspective.

It does from your perspective. One doctor must be scum.

If it's not AS or Navy, you have proof that one of us is scum and can use it later.

Because you're push is so tunnel headed, I'd rather no lynch than vote Math. You're not considering what comes from anyone else.

Why are Navy and AS scum? Because they are lurking while town fights it out. Navy's even posting in other games.

It's smarter because scum have to basically votepark tomorrow or give up Math as a mislynch.

[NJAC]

@Titus: did you read D1?

[MathBlade]

Titus...

Talk with me about my perspective here. I'm pretty concerned about Kelvin faking a guilty. Explain how me voting Navy will help make sure we don't have a mislynch on lylo. Like I'm concerned if I vote anyone else we lose. Show me how that isn't the case.

[NotTheRealPaul]

kelvin is a doc....

[MathBlade]

kelvin is a doc....

So? He could say he was a cop and lied or have his buddy do it. I don't see a way this doesn't turn into me v Kelvin and Titus seems to have a plan and I'm trying to talk with her to see what she thinks, ya know being confirmed town and all.

[Kelvin Smith]

kelvin is a doc....

So? He could say he was a cop and lied or have his buddy do it. I don't see a way this doesn't turn into me v Kelvin and Titus seems to have a plan and I'm trying to talk with her to see what she thinks, ya know being confirmed town and all.

If I ever say that I'm a Cop from this point on, everyone can just feel free to lynch me. This isn't a gambit or a ploy. If I claim Cop, fucking lynch me. I'm a Doc, period, so let's just cut this nonsense off at the pass and discuss things that actually matter.

-Kelvin

[Kelvin Smith]

kelvin is a doc....

So? He could say he was a cop and lied or have his buddy do it. I don't see a way this doesn't turn into me v Kelvin and Titus seems to have a plan and I'm trying to talk with her to see what she thinks, ya know being confirmed town and all.

Actually though, I'm really glad you brought up that buddy thing. Thanks for giving me the ammunition I needed to push your lynch today. You've perfectly illustrated exactly why we can't keep you alive today.

So basically, we need to lynch Math today, regardless of alignment. If we mislynch today and Math is town, then scum have every incentive to claim a guilty on them. This will feed into the confirmation bias of anybody else who already finds Math suspect (myself included) and is going to result in a town loss.

If Math is scum and we mislynch today, we risk Titus and Math pushing the mislynch of a legitimate Cop who has a guilty on Math tomorrow.

I don't want to risk either of those and I don't have any confidence in our odds of hitting scum in the Doc pool, since apparently nobody even wants to consider Titus as the lynch right now.

[Titus]

kelvin is a doc....

So? He could say he was a cop and lied or have his buddy do it. I don't see a way this doesn't turn into me v Kelvin and Titus seems to have a plan and I'm trying to talk with her to see what she thinks, ya know being confirmed town and all.

Actually though, I'm really glad you brought up that buddy thing. Thanks for giving me the ammunition I needed to push your lynch today. You've perfectly illustrated exactly why we can't keep you alive today.

So basically, we need to lynch Math today, regardless of alignment. If we mislynch today and Math is town, then scum have every incentive to claim a guilty on them. This will feed into the confirmation bias of anybody else who already finds Math suspect (myself included) and is going to result in a town loss.

If Math is scum and we mislynch today, we risk Titus and Math pushing the mislynch of a legitimate Cop who has a guilty on Math tomorrow.

I don't want to risk either of those and I don't have any confidence in our odds of hitting scum in the Doc pool, since apparently nobody even wants to consider Titus as the lynch right now.

Math going paranoid is a hallmark of Town!Math. Scum Math wouldn't accuse you of something patently untrue. That being said, I don't think you are scum either and there's just as legitimate of a concern that someone would fake a guilty on Math given the drama you are stirring up.

The only scenarios you ever consider are scenarios where Math is scum. This doesn't look like someone solving the game but head first in a tunnel.

Second, if a cop had a guilty on Math, I'd want to watch the cards play out. Because that cop failed to do the optimal play in checking a doctor claim which makes PoE easier. We hands down lynch and cop in the doctor claims.

[Frosted Kelvin Bran]

kelvin is a doc....

So? He could say he was a cop and lied or have his buddy do it. I don't see a way this doesn't turn into me v Kelvin and Titus seems to have a plan and I'm trying to talk with her to see what she thinks, ya know being confirmed town and all.

Actually though, I'm really glad you brought up that buddy thing. Thanks for giving me the ammunition I needed to push your lynch today. You've perfectly illustrated exactly why we can't keep you alive today.

So basically, we need to lynch Math today, regardless of alignment. If we mislynch today and Math is town, then scum have every incentive to claim a guilty on them. This will feed into the confirmation bias of anybody else who already finds Math suspect (myself included) and is going to result in a town loss.

If Math is scum and we mislynch today, we risk Titus and Math pushing the mislynch of a legitimate Cop who has a guilty on Math tomorrow.

I don't want to risk either of those and I don't have any confidence in our odds of hitting scum in the Doc pool, since apparently nobody even wants to consider Titus as the lynch right now.

Math going paranoid is a hallmark of Town!Math. Scum Math wouldn't accuse you of something patently untrue. That being said, I don't think you are scum either and there's just as legitimate of a concern that someone would fake a guilty on Math given the drama you are stirring up.

Sure, that's a concern. All the more reason to take that option away from them by lynching Math now. This is a seal that can't be unbroken.

The only scenarios you ever consider are scenarios where Math is scum. This doesn't look like someone solving the game but head first in a tunnel.

False. Just because Math is probably scum, doesn't mean that I'm not contemplating situations in which they are not. I consider scenarios where Math is town, which is why I continue to push for Math's lynch today, rather than tomorrow in potential MyLo. I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong. It just doesn't really matter that much to me because as far as I'm concerned, I'm probably not, and because the I believe that it gives us the most utility. As long as I'm alive and Math is alive, I'm almost certainly going to vote Math in LyLo, so if Math is town, scum have every reason to keep both of us around. Lynching town Math removes that danger from the board.

Second, if a cop had a guilty on Math, I'd want to watch the cards play out. Because that cop failed to do the optimal play in checking a doctor claim which makes PoE easier. We hands down lynch and cop in the doctor claims.

Give me a reason. How many times do I have to ask you? Other than the fact that you allegedly know that you are town, how is Math not a better lynch for the rest of the town? And please, explain already why either of the two current Doc wagons are suspect in any way.

[Frosted Kelvin Bran]

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right.

Wait, explain how and why it would be me vs. Math tomorrow if everything turned out that way. Also, what would we do in the event that there is no Cop result?

[Kelvin Smith]

kelvin is a doc....

So? He could say he was a cop and lied or have his buddy do it. I don't see a way this doesn't turn into me v Kelvin and Titus seems to have a plan and I'm trying to talk with her to see what she thinks, ya know being confirmed town and all.

Actually though, I'm really glad you brought up that buddy thing. Thanks for giving me the ammunition I needed to push your lynch today. You've perfectly illustrated exactly why we can't keep you alive today.

So basically, we need to lynch Math today, regardless of alignment. If we mislynch today and Math is town, then scum have every incentive to claim a guilty on them. This will feed into the confirmation bias of anybody else who already finds Math suspect (myself included) and is going to result in a town loss.

If Math is scum and we mislynch today, we risk Titus and Math pushing the mislynch of a legitimate Cop who has a guilty on Math tomorrow.

I don't want to risk either of those and I don't have any confidence in our odds of hitting scum in the Doc pool, since apparently nobody even wants to consider Titus as the lynch right now.

Math going paranoid is a hallmark of Town!Math. Scum Math wouldn't accuse you of something patently untrue. That being said, I don't think you are scum either and there's just as legitimate of a concern that someone would fake a guilty on Math given the drama you are stirring up.

Sure, that's a concern. All the more reason to take that option away from them by lynching Math now. This is a seal that can't be unbroken.

The only scenarios you ever consider are scenarios where Math is scum. This doesn't look like someone solving the game but head first in a tunnel.

False. Just because Math is probably scum, doesn't mean that I'm not contemplating situations in which they are not. I consider scenarios where Math is town, which is why I continue to push for Math's lynch today, rather than tomorrow in potential MyLo. I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong. It just doesn't really matter that much to me because as far as I'm concerned, I'm probably not, and because the I believe that it gives us the most utility. As long as I'm alive and Math is alive, I'm almost certainly going to vote Math in LyLo, so if Math is town, scum have every reason to keep both of us around. Lynching town Math removes that danger from the board.

Second, if a cop had a guilty on Math, I'd want to watch the cards play out. Because that cop failed to do the optimal play in checking a doctor claim which makes PoE easier. We hands down lynch and cop in the doctor claims.

Give me a reason. How many times do I have to ask you? Other than the fact that you allegedly know that you are town, how is Math not a better lynch for the rest of the town? And please, explain already why either of the two current Doc wagons are suspect in any way.

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right.

Wait, explain how and why it would be me vs. Math tomorrow if everything turned out that way. Also, what would we do in the event that there is no Cop result?

Fuck me. My bad.

[MathBlade]

So in other words you're going to vote me in LYLO immediately (should that happen) (to paraphrase the wordiness of the above) even though you know it is the suboptimal play. Even though you still think I could be Town.

You aren't advocating what I am doing that is scummy your only argument is that I claimed a cop innocent.

And in MyLO/LyLO that won't fucking matter. All guilties and innocents are supposed to come out before MyLO/LyLO to prevent exactly the play you are suggesting. And you're suggesting you'd do what is negative utility because...why?

Oh right because I am scum because I gave an innocent.

Titus...Help me here please. Like I am lost in the sea of wtf and am trying to get where you are.

[Titus]

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right.

Wait, explain how and why it would be me vs. Math tomorrow if everything turned out that way. Also, what would we do in the event that there is no Cop result?

So you've figured this out then? Right?

Also, if there were no cop results on D4, I'd be highly suspicious.

The more realistic solution is that the cop results tomorrow will tell us a lot. By leashing them to the doctors, the scum solve the PoE for us.

I think you've figured that out by your recent posting however.

[Kelvin Smith]

So in other words you're going to vote me in LYLO immediately (should that happen) (to paraphrase the wordiness of the above) even though you know it is the suboptimal play. Even though you still think I could be Town.

Literally anyone who isn't confirmed could be town. That's my whole point about the unreliability of reads.

You aren't advocating what I am doing that is scummy your only argument is that I claimed a cop innocent.

That's not true. Why are you acting like that's the case? I'm arguing that every part of our interaction makes me think you're scum. Case in point, this very post where you misrepresent why I think you are scum. The only thing the innocent has to do with anything is that I'm fairly suspicious of Titus at this point, which is only possible if you're scum.

And in MyLO/LyLO that won't fucking matter. All guilties and innocents are supposed to come out before MyLO/LyLO to prevent exactly the play you are suggesting. And you're suggesting you'd do what is negative utility because...why?

Are you talking about the post where I said you have to die now because of fake claims tomorrow? If so, it simply isn't possible for someone to report results they get Night 3 before MyLo is we mislynch here.

Oh right because I am scum because I gave an innocent.

Your blatant misrepresentations aren't doing much for your image, I don't think.

[Titus]

So in other words you're going to vote me in LYLO immediately (should that happen) (to paraphrase the wordiness of the above) even though you know it is the suboptimal play. Even though you still think I could be Town.

Literally anyone who isn't confirmed could be town. That's my whole point about the unreliability of reads.

You aren't advocating what I am doing that is scummy your only argument is that I claimed a cop innocent.

That's not true. Why are you acting like that's the case? I'm arguing that every part of our interaction makes me think you're scum. Case in point, this very post where you misrepresent why I think you are scum. The only thing the innocent has to do with anything is that I'm fairly suspicious of Titus at this point, which is only possible if you're scum.

And in MyLO/LyLO that won't fucking matter. All guilties and innocents are supposed to come out before MyLO/LyLO to prevent exactly the play you are suggesting. And you're suggesting you'd do what is negative utility because...why?

Are you talking about the post where I said you have to die now because of fake claims tomorrow? If so, it simply isn't possible for someone to report results they get Night 3 before MyLo is we mislynch here.

Oh right because I am scum because I gave an innocent.

Your blatant misrepresentations aren't doing much for your image, I don't think.

Neither of you two are talking to each other. Which is why I'm trying to tell you in no uncertain terms to move the fuck on. This argument isn't persuading anyone. It's just bloating the game.

[Kelvin Smith]

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right.

Wait, explain how and why it would be me vs. Math tomorrow if everything turned out that way. Also, what would we do in the event that there is no Cop result?

So you've figured this out then? Right?

No, that's why I asked the question.

Also, if there were no cop results on D4, I'd be highly suspicious.

Highly suspicious of what, exactly?

The more realistic solution is that the cop results tomorrow will tell us a lot. By leashing them to the doctors, the scum solve the PoE for us.

In what sense?

I think you've figured that out by your recent posting however.

You thought wrong.

[Kelvin Smith]

So in other words you're going to vote me in LYLO immediately (should that happen) (to paraphrase the wordiness of the above) even though you know it is the suboptimal play. Even though you still think I could be Town.

Literally anyone who isn't confirmed could be town. That's my whole point about the unreliability of reads.

You aren't advocating what I am doing that is scummy your only argument is that I claimed a cop innocent.

That's not true. Why are you acting like that's the case? I'm arguing that every part of our interaction makes me think you're scum. Case in point, this very post where you misrepresent why I think you are scum. The only thing the innocent has to do with anything is that I'm fairly suspicious of Titus at this point, which is only possible if you're scum.

And in MyLO/LyLO that won't fucking matter. All guilties and innocents are supposed to come out before MyLO/LyLO to prevent exactly the play you are suggesting. And you're suggesting you'd do what is negative utility because...why?

Are you talking about the post where I said you have to die now because of fake claims tomorrow? If so, it simply isn't possible for someone to report results they get Night 3 before MyLo is we mislynch here.

Oh right because I am scum because I gave an innocent.

Your blatant misrepresentations aren't doing much for your image, I don't think.

Neither of you two are talking to each other. Which is why I'm trying to tell you in no uncertain terms to move the fuck on. This argument isn't persuading anyone. It's just bloating the game.

I'm not "convincing" you. Virtually nobody else is directly talking about us, which is extremely unfortunate. I'm not just going to move on and throw the fucking game away. I mean, I could. What's one more loss mean to me anyway? But since the point of the game is to try to win, then that's what I'm going to try to do.