Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Kelvin Smith]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

It doesn't though. A lynch on a Cop confirms the result. Cop on Docs, lynch Cops on innocent, lynch Docs on guilty. Confirmed town gets protection.

[Titus]

No, this is bad. Confirmed town =/= right, first of all. Town can and are wrong all the time. Second of all, a Cop in this setup is unable to confirm anybody tomorrow, because they could be fake. If there is scum among us, you're basically telling scum to fakeclaim and say that the scum is town, which will drive mislynches. If you're town, help either Navy or Math get lynched, because any lynch is better than no lynch right now.

Wrong. If we no lynch and get a clear or two, we have mislynches remaining. Scum clear a buddy, we muslynch arguably. Guess what, the lylo picture starts painting itself.

I think a no lynch is terrible here, but I prefer it over a mislynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

It doesn't though. A lynch on a Cop confirms the result. Cop on Docs, lynch Cops on innocent, lynch Docs on guilty. Confirmed town gets protection.

there are a limited # of scum to fakeclaim cop. we arent just gonna lynch inno claims, we are lynching math because scumfuck

[Titus]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

It doesn't though. A lynch on a Cop confirms the result. Cop on Docs, lynch Cops on innocent, lynch Docs on guilty. Confirmed town gets protection.

Yeah or just actually playing Mafia confirms Math as town.

Docs on Cops or clears.
Cops on Docs.
Lynch Docs not cleared until lylo.

So close yet you hang onto giving scum outs because you feel it helps town.

[Titus]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

It doesn't though. A lynch on a Cop confirms the result. Cop on Docs, lynch Cops on innocent, lynch Docs on guilty. Confirmed town gets protection.

there are a limited # of scum to fakeclaim cop. we arent just gonna lynch inno claims, we are lynching math because scumfuck

Except for Math being scum, I agree with this.

[Titus]

You know what.

Fuck my pride.

If Math doesn't come in with a readslist in 24 hours, this game is over no matter how right I am. It jyst is.

I should just sub out so you can retroactively blame Math for their own mislynch

[Kelvin Smith]

@Kelvin, Intellectual honesty is about acknowledging ones biases. I am prone to pride, so I try to counter that by discussing with my townblock. It also means applying the same standard.

No, it's not. It's not about acknowledging one's biases, though it's partially about not letting one's biases impede the search for truth, which admittedly requires one to acknowledge their own biases.

If somebody presents their faith in you as town as though it were actual proof that you are town, that person is being intellectually dishonest.

You've argued you're not getting lynched or killed. I'm very aware bith of us may die. You're acting as if being wrong only has consequences for me. I'm not wrong though.

No. I'm asking you to respect me enough as an intelligent human being to let me handle the consequences of my being wrong. I'll certainly welcome your help, if i am wrong, but you taking all of the responsibility as though you alone are in control of my destiny is simply not okay.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't feel like making cases.

[Titus]

Because I should bow to my betters am I right?

No one dare explain themselves. We'll just claim Math is scum for days, wear everyone down. Never give a reason. Never engage Titus's scumreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why do I always have to drop my style of play and cater to how you like to be talked to?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like fuck I have a third degree burn on my thumb im typing with 1 hand there's no chance in hell im typing extensive cases right now

[Kelvin Smith]

We agree on Kelvin lock town. Let's start there.

I'm going to stop you right there. It doesn't matter that I know I'm town. It doesn't matter that I'm obviously town. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense for me to be anything else but town. Don't lock me as town unless you have the hard data to back it up. That's just good policy.

[Titus]

@Kelvin, Intellectual honesty is about acknowledging ones biases. I am prone to pride, so I try to counter that by discussing with my townblock. It also means applying the same standard.

No, it's not. It's not about acknowledging one's biases, though it's partially about not letting one's biases impede the search for truth, which admittedly requires one to acknowledge their own biases.

If somebody presents their faith in you as town as though it were actual proof that you are town, that person is being intellectually dishonest.

You've argued you're not getting lynched or killed. I'm very aware bith of us may die. You're acting as if being wrong only has consequences for me. I'm not wrong though.

No. I'm asking you to respect me enough as an intelligent human being to let me handle the consequences of my being wrong. I'll certainly welcome your help, if i am wrong, but you taking all of the responsibility as though you alone are in control of my destiny is simply not okay.

You "accepting responsibility" means we lose. You will get voted. You are an intelligent human. You think no one will vote you or RC with knowledge Navy is scum and Math is town? That's absurd. Someone town will vote you unless I do the one thing I never do but get blamed for. Control everything.

[Titus]

Why do I always have to drop my style of play and cater to how you like to be talked to?

I dunno. Why do you expect that of me? I expect you to try and understand how my reads form and how to rwach me. You claim you can get me to do that when you're scum but it magically fails when you're town. What's the difference in your style of talking?

Why do you expect me to vote my biggest townread, tied with Kelvin on your word rather than you voting someone you agree with me is scum?

[Titus]

We agree on Kelvin lock town. Let's start there.

I'm going to stop you right there. It doesn't matter that I know I'm town. It doesn't matter that I'm obviously town. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense for me to be anything else but town. Don't lock me as town unless you have the hard data to back it up. That's just good policy.

Yeah, anyone who gets this pissed at my sibling and cases them for wild statements is lock town. I've dealt with Math enough to know that. Scum love a town Math.

[Kelvin Smith]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

It doesn't though. A lynch on a Cop confirms the result. Cop on Docs, lynch Cops on innocent, lynch Docs on guilty. Confirmed town gets protection.

there are a limited # of scum to fakeclaim cop. we arent just gonna lynch inno claims, we are lynching math because scumfuck

Yeah, but every Cop lynched means one more that can be scum. With Math dead, that likely leaves 1 of 4 Cops as scum. Now it's totally true that this means we're more likely to lynch town than scum when there is an innocent, but it's the only way to stop scum from faking innocents. And it means that every guilty we get is that much more likely to be true.

[RadiantCowbells]

rather than you voting someone you agree with me is scum?

I have told you why I am unwilling to risk a Navy lynch and it comes down to expecting you to mislynch me tomorrow if she is actually town because you hard townread Alban for no reason.

[Titus]

rather than you voting someone you agree with me is scum?

I have told you why I am unwilling to risk a Navy lynch and it comes down to expecting you to mislynch me tomorrow if she is actually town because you hard townread Alban for no reason.

Now, I don't have alban as lock town. He's just very flaming town. I would give you an opportunity to be heard but putting yourself above the team isn't it. You're basically saying you don't trust me to reevaluate. I have made big speeches about townies voting wrong for a reason.

You being unwilling to talk about the foundations of your reads gives me nothing to change my mind with. I have already said alban is town. His frustration and doc choices.

[RadiantCowbells]

putting yourself above the team isn't it.

you are the only one in the entire game doing this

[Titus]

putting yourself above the team isn't it.

you are the only one in the entire game doing this

I'm sorry. Which one of us is refusing to talk about how their reads developed? Which one of us is refusing to lynch a scumread (Navy) because they think their own survival is more important?

How can I ever trust you?

[Titus]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

It doesn't though. A lynch on a Cop confirms the result. Cop on Docs, lynch Cops on innocent, lynch Docs on guilty. Confirmed town gets protection.

there are a limited # of scum to fakeclaim cop. we arent just gonna lynch inno claims, we are lynching math because scumfuck

Yeah, but every Cop lynched means one more that can be scum. With Math dead, that likely leaves 1 of 4 Cops as scum. Now it's totally true that this means we're more likely to lynch town than scum when there is an innocent, but it's the only way to stop scum from faking innocents. And it means that every guilty we get is that much more likely to be true.

Where the hell did 1 of 4 cops come from?

Scum can fake innocents all they want as they link each other.

We want to stop fake guilties. Fake innocents mean chain lynches.

[RadiantCowbells]

if i get lynched after navy we flat out lose the game in case you hadnt figured that out

so i either tell the cops to make the incredibly suboptimal play of checking me if navy flips town, get shot later, and you never reconsider math

or we just lynch math today and try to wait to solve docs until scum in cops are dead

[Kelvin Smith]

Alright, unless something non-circular is said here, I'm done with this game for the night. It's going nowhere and neither is my Math vote. Same for tomorrow, since a No Lynch is all but guaranteed at this point. The only way I'm voting anybody other than MathBlade is if a Cop gives me an innocent on MathBlade, in which case I'm voting that scumfuck Cop.

[Titus]

if i get lynched after navy we flat out lose the game in case you hadnt figured that out

so i either tell the cops to make the incredibly suboptimal play of checking me if navy flips town, get shot later, and you never reconsider math

or we just lynch math today and try to wait to solve docs until scum in cops are dead

You could actually say why you scumread math and alvan, given you know Alban prefers a Math lynch over Navy.

If you're refusing to say why, then you don't get my trust as there is nothing to verify

[Titus]

Alright, unless something non-circular is said here, I'm done with this game for the night. It's going nowhere and neither is my Math vote. Same for tomorrow, since a No Lynch is all but guaranteed at this point. The only way I'm voting anybody other than MathBlade is if a Cop gives me an innocent on MathBlade, in which case I'm voting that scumfuck Cop.

Gee, saying why Math is scum just isn't going to happen is it?