Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)


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Post Post #2875 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:00 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

In post 2871, NotTheRealPaul wrote:Giga!!! are u stalking me?
no :oops: - im actually stalking raybells

I'll be on this after work!

Do I need to read all 100 something pages or can someone give me the deets? I'll probably at least read from daystart on tho
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Post Post #2876 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:02 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

In post 2873, NotTheRealPaul wrote:VOTE: alban

Trying to work together once he gets scumread thats some bs
It's certainly pretty damn suspect. I'll still play along with what he's saying for now, just to see if it can get us anywhere, because we're just spinning our wheels here.
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Post Post #2877 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:05 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

In post 2875, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
In post 2871, NotTheRealPaul wrote:Giga!!! are u stalking me?
no :oops: - im actually stalking raybells

I'll be on this after work!

Do I need to read all 100 something pages or can someone give me the deets? I'll probably at least read from daystart on tho
That's still gonna leave you with about 52 pages of reading. Sorry about that...

There are a lot of things to discuss. I'll try to summarize as much as I can remember from the time I replaced in, which was around page 75. I'll try to do it quickly, because I've got a lot to do today.
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Post Post #2878 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:05 am

Post by Almost50 »

VC 3.14
alban
(4): Mathblade, RadiantCowbells, NotTheRealPaul, Kelvin Smith,
Navy
(3): gigabyteTroubadour, Vedith, Titus,
RadiantCowbells
(1): alban,


Not Voting
(2): Navy, Gamma Emerald,
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline
: (expired on 2017-07-09 21:50:00)


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Post Post #2879 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I'd suggest reading Days 2 and 3
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Post Post #2880 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:21 am

Post by alban »

In post 2876, Kelvin Smith wrote:
In post 2873, NotTheRealPaul wrote:VOTE: alban

Trying to work together once he gets scumread thats some bs
It's certainly pretty damn suspect. I'll still play along with what he's saying for now, just to see if it can get us anywhere, because we're just spinning our wheels here.
Paul, are you riled up coz I mentioned you? You need to look at it objectively and not take it personally. Like even if I am scum, my strategy will only take the game fwd. Trying to create a synergy rather than me-vs-you scenario. It's still more than what a lot of people have done, don't you think? I am trying to find a common ground between the strong players rather than waiting for the deadline to arrive and make a foolish choice in return.
BTW, don't forget to answer 'what if the lynchee turns out to be a town' question.
The problem as I see of lynching me is where do you go from there? Do you have a plan?
As I see it, you will not have much to go by. Everyone has found me scummy. And I find almost every single player scummy too. Objectively speaking, my lynch gives you no extra information. Maybe you have an insight about how my lynch helps the town, Paul?
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Post Post #2881 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:27 am

Post by Titus »

@Vedith, explain your Math is scum only if I am comment please. It pings.
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Post Post #2882 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:31 am

Post by alban »

In post 2876, Kelvin Smith wrote:
In post 2873, NotTheRealPaul wrote:VOTE: alban

Trying to work together once he gets scumread thats some bs
It's certainly pretty damn suspect. I'll still play along with what he's saying for now, just to see if it can get us anywhere, because we're just spinning our wheels here.
You are wrong there. It's not suspicious. As a townie, it's in the interest of the town that I survive. And so if my behaviour has tunnelled half the players to believe that I am scummy, I need to shift gears.
But I must say that's actually not the reason why this change in strategy occurred. I was reading an article on Israel-Palestine conflict resolution and I am simply applying the principles mentioned in the article to this game. I realised that maybe my attitude is holding back the game. It's just coincidental that my change in strategy is occurring when I have the maximum number of votes.
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Post Post #2883 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:32 am

Post by alban »

I am at L-2. Just in case someone wanted to remove their votes.
I am going to bed.
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Post Post #2884 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:34 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

In post 2883, alban wrote:I am at L-2. Just in case someone wanted to remove their votes.
I am going to bed.
Not particularly. Maybe if you go up to L-1. But then again, if anybody were to quickhammer you, then they are going to be on the receiving end of one hell of a deathtunnel.
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Post Post #2885 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:39 am

Post by alban »

Ok. Remember my 6 suspects if I am dead before tomorrow.
Good night.
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Post Post #2886 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:39 am

Post by NotTheRealPaul »

lynching scum always helps town.

idc if u scumread me im not getting lynched.

also i think titus still Trs u and anymore info on her alignment would help.

I still think math is best but that prob wont happen so ur my second option
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Post Post #2887 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:10 am

Post by NotTheRealPaul »

another reason is it narrows docpool and Titus wont get lynched and the navy wagon is stupid imo
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Post Post #2888 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:20 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Hi giggles!

I'm pretty sure your slot is town since it was my slot's day 1 save and it feels like the most likely kill.

I believe there's 1 scum in {Navy/Alban} then 2 in the remainder of the cops, with one very likely being Mathblade
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #2889 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:44 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

This pretty much sumarizes my understanding of the game at this point. If anyone wants to fact check me, go for it.

Spoiler: Claims
alban: Doctor - Protected Creature slot Night 1
Gamma Emerald: Cop
gigabyteTroubadour: Cop
Kelvin Smith: Slot claimed Cop, switched claim to Doctor (Both on Day 2)
MathBlade: Cop - Innocent on Titus Night 2 (apparently)
Navy: Doctor - Her slot protected Gamma Emerald Night 1
NotTheRealPaul: Cop
RadiantCowbells: Doctor - His slot protected NJAC Night 1
Titus: Doctor
Vedith: Cop


Spoiler: Deaths
Day 1: CommKnight - Doctor
Night 1: No Kill
Day 2: Sesq - Doctor
Night 2: jjh927 (Creature slot) - Cop


Spoiler: Player Summary since Page 75
alban:
Thought most of the players were scummy. Claimed to be open to a Math lynch, but opposed to my reasoning for it. Called my reasons poor because of poorer reasons, still claims to have destroyed my argument. Became offended a couple times and almost replaced out, but decided to stay. Opposed to working with anyone because everyone is scummy. Willing to work with everyone now that his wagon is big (though he claims the reason for this is unrelated), despite still thinking they are all scummy. Still thinks most of the players are scummy.

Gamma Emerald:
Replaced back in after flaking earlier in the game. Initially thought RC was scum. Still has some concerns about RC, I believe. Mostly catchup posts upon replacing back in. I believe he currently thinks Navy or alban are most likely Doc scum. May not be opposed to a Math lynch, but doesn't seem to be his preference right now.

gigabyteTroubadour:
Slot has done nothing.

Kelvin Smith:
Replaced MuttonChopMagic. Said I wouldn't read the earlier parts of the game. Upon learning the current state of the claims, I suggested that the best strategic move would be to lynch Math, as that would either confirm Titus as town (if Math is town) or give us reason to check Titus properly (if Math is scum). I met opposition from various people, with the typical line of rhetoric being that we had to lynch a claimed Doctor because there is guaranteed at least one scum in Doctors (7 Claimed). Unless all 3 scum are Doctors, there is at least one Mafia among the Cops. I pointed out that Cops strategic superiority as a fakeclaim, so it was unlikely all scum were Docs. Even so, the idea has been met with heavy resistance from Vedith, Titus, and alban.

While interacting with Math, my desire to lynch them evolved from simple strategic reasoning to an outright scumread. Everything about the way that I've interacted with Math screams to me that they are scum. I've said multiple times that I don't believe in reads (including my own), but I'm powerless to disbelieve my feelings on Math regardless. As such, I'm convinced both inytellectually and emotionally that Math is the correct lynch today. I also expressed early suspicions at Titus and Vedith due to their protection of Math.

At some point, Titus and alban broke my spirit and I became open to a Navy lynch. RC reinvigorated me for a short while, but ultimately broke down too. alban became a person of interest for me to.

Presented a strategy where we would have lynch Cops with an Innocent verdict or lynch players that Cops have a guilty verdict on. Either way would deter scum from giving fake results. Lynching Cops is relatively low-risk outside of MyLo/LyLo, because it gives us confirmed town which are protectable by Doctors. Admittedly, only two unspent Doctors remain, but scum don't know which Night we protect, so it's still risky for them to go for a kill on confirmed town.

MathBlade:
Mostly just OMGUS on anybody who calls them scum and heavy Titus buddying.

Navy:
Slot has done nothing.

NotTheRealPaul:
Few posts. Mostly just sheeping me. But also seems reasonable and capable of independent thought.

RadiantCowbells:
Initially came in attacking Titus and Math. Eventually revealed that he didn't think Titus was scum and was just testing her. Pushed hard for a Math lynch, squabbled with Titus a lot. Tried to negotiate with Titus at times, but they always broke down because one of them would always ask the other for too much control over the situation. Grew suspicious of alban and Math because both suspected the other, but refused to actually vote the other.

Titus:
Convinced Math is town. Will essentially protect Math no matter what. Wants a Navy lynch and will take a No Lynch over a Math lynch. Argued with both RC and I extensively over Math.

Can produce no objective reasons why any lynch is better than a Math lynch from a strategic standpoint, other than "no information is gained, because everybody already knows I'm town." I don't know that she's town.

Consistently misrepresents me by claiming that I refuse to consider a world where Math is town, despite my entire strategic argument hinges upon considering a world where Math is town. Apparently refuses to consider a world in which Math is scum, despite claiming the contrary.

Refused to lynch Navy when both RC and I said that we gave up and were unwilling to fight her anymore, because she refused to let us be bullied into voting Navy, effectively bullying us into a No Lynch instead.

Currently in talks to get some non-Math lynch through.

Vedith:
Stubbornly refused to lynch outside of the Doctor pool or Cop anybody that the town agrees upon.
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Post Post #2890 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:33 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

In post 2889, Kelvin Smith wrote:Kelvin Smith: Slot claimed Cop, switched claim to Doctor (Both on Day 2)
Might I ask why...?

And was this between replacements or?

First thing that's jumping at me but thanks for the summary!

literally just stepped inside so i'm taking a look-see at everything rn
i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess

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Post Post #2891 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:48 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

VOTE: Alban

mostly just from wagon composition so far, from speed-ISO skims this is probably town!raybells and i'm OK with Kelvin (mostly townreading the summary here, going to look into the logistics behind the claim swap). alban hasnt really impressed me so far and creature seems like a really weird protect since it seems like he was scumread by most (he was obvtown here but still.......)

i'll try to piece something more substantial in a bit but this is in case i drop down and die right now
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Post Post #2892 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:53 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

UNVOTE: alban

Just so he doesn't hammer himself so we can't collect ourselves if he's scum.
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Post Post #2893 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:58 am

Post by Titus »

@Kelvin

That's a horrible one sided summary. You and RC have threatened and bullied while everytime trying to cut me out of the process. I am willing to lynch any doctor with a case on them I felt made sense. There is confscum in the doctors. We need to find out whothat is. If you think Math is scum, get them talking.

Solving docs is the key, not attacking whomever disagrees.
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Post Post #2894 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:09 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

In post 2890, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
In post 2889, Kelvin Smith wrote:Kelvin Smith: Slot claimed Cop, switched claim to Doctor (Both on Day 2)
Might I ask why...?

And was this between replacements or?

First thing that's jumping at me but thanks for the summary!

literally just stepped inside so i'm taking a look-see at everything rn
Yeah, I'm not really sure why he did it. Here it is for your own review.
In post 998, MuttonChopMagic wrote:cop cup
gamma up
In post 1046, MuttonChopMagic wrote:actually I'm not cop I was hoping scum would fake but w/e, Im doc
I tried to make it so I could claim last but yall are cocks
It was never the case that scum were going to be tricked by the number of Doc and Cop claims, so it was a stupid move from a town perspective. And switching from a Cop claim to a Doc claim would only draw attention to himself, so it was a stupid move from a scum perspective.
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Post Post #2895 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:15 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

how likely is it we can flashwagon math? havent read any of their posts but if there's a scum!cop it's them since paul is obvtown and i'm like 90% this is town!gamma. don't know if this is the mechanically correct play but it's an option.

from the docs i think kelvin, titus, and raybells are all town (kinda looked into D1 and I liked their predecessors too)

i dont really know how to feel about alban since he always seems off to me. don't really like some things about Cooperative sheep either so far but i remember RC saying something about knowing his main and him doing something out-of-characteristic wrt his scum game. havent read enough of the game to know if it makes sense for an alban/navy dichotomy to happen if theyre both scum here either

rc can you talk to me about why you're voting alban over navy?

my reads are something like

{RC, Titus, Paul}
{kelvin, gamma}
{vedith} - null
{navy, alban}
{mathblade}

pedit: yeah, i definitely agree it was a dumb move that really only makes sense from a town perspective. thanks for pulling that up.
i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess

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Post Post #2896 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:15 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

ok i just realized there's 7 doc claims and that's why we're lynching docs :/

miscounted in my notes lol
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Post Post #2897 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:16 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

and to clarify i
have
read hellfire missile's iso, just not mathblade's
i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess

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Post Post #2898 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:21 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

In post 2893, Titus wrote:@Kelvin

That's a horrible one sided summary.
What a shock that my summary of the game would be told from my own perspective.
In post 2893, Titus wrote:You and RC have threatened and bullied while everytime trying to cut me out of the process.
I don't know if that's a completely accurate representation of events.
In post 2893, Titus wrote:I am willing to lynch any doctor with a case on them I felt made sense. There is confscum in the doctors. We need to find out whothat is.
I mean, we do in the long run, but that doesn't mean we have to right now, so don't pretend like it does mean that.
In post 2893, Titus wrote:If you think Math is scum, get them talking.
I have. A lot. That's kind of the whole point of why I think Math is scum.
In post 2893, Titus wrote:Solving docs is the key, not attacking whomever disagrees.
It's really not. Say we successfully lynched a scum Doc right now. So fucking what? The game isn't solved. We still don't know for sure if there are more scum in the Docs, how many scum are in the Cops, or who said scum are. Nothing is solved from it. And you still won't fucking lynch Math, which means scum will never kill you and the game will never end in a town win.

And you're probably going to say again that Math can never vote against you in LyLo, so it's all good. I somehow keep forgetting to respond to that, but it's so wrong. Unless it's 3 person LyLo, Math can still vote for town other than you. And even if it was just you, Math, and somebody else, I can almost guarantee you'd vote with Math to lynch the third person, meaning a town loss would still be guaranteed. You andMath can't be allowed to survive together as long as Math is unconfirmed, but since you generally oppose the Copping of Math and Vedith refuses to listen to instructions, we can't ever count on Math being Copped. So we might as well just kill Math now.
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Post Post #2899 (ISO) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:24 am

Post by Kelvin Smith »

In post 2895, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:yeah, i definitely agree it was a dumb move that really only makes sense from a town perspective. thanks for pulling that up.
It's dumb from a town perspective too though. And one could try to argue that there are scum reasons for it. Ultimately though, all the reasons for both sides basically amount to incompetence on my predecessor's part, so it's not worth speculating on and I'd call it more NAI than anything.
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