Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Gamma Emerald]

LOL
Looking back I rembember HM was so damn scummy
VOTE: Mathblade
That came from self-ISOing fyi

[gigabyteTroubadour]

2 more votes

[Titus]

@2098 Kelvin Logical errors

When I say the case for what you presented in my opinion was Math was uncontrollable being equally valid, I was referring to the "validity" as in philosphy. If the premises were true (namely uncontrolled buddying means lynch), it would apply to both RC and Math.

If you townread someone, you should give them every tool possible to reach agreement and be open to their cases (which is why I keep asking). If town unites, we cannot lose. But if we feel whatever we do is a win lose proposition, then it's hard to progress. If you TR someone, work at getting their best.

You mention near universal support for lynching in doctors. It's not true. You and RC want to lynch Math who is not a doctor. Second, near universal support for the correct play is a given. If there is guaranteed scum in a pool, solve that pool first.

Now when I said solving the doctor problem would solve the game, I wasn't kidding. On a whole, certain slots have avoided Navy while pushing alban. It creates a suggestion that NJAC and Paul may share an alignment, along with Math and Vedith. This presumes only one scum doc.

If two scum docs, that makes things interesting and deterring cops in docs is offthecharts scummy.

If all three scum are doctors, then scum are not bussing that doctor.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

there's absolutely no way all 3 scum are in the doctors

creature and gamma are not n1 kills - raybells is the most believable n1 doctor

i think kelvin is town

thus there

has

to be a scum cop which means that pools should be solved as well

is this information mechanically confirmed? probably not

but play strongly supports that this is a valid move for today too.

if you can get a wagon on navy then i will gladly move over but math is at l-2 so i'm not moving my vote until then.

[Kelvin Smith]

2 more votes

I'm 99.9% sure we can count on RC, so that just leaves the hammer.

Math town flip means I'm on Titus if I'm active tonight. Titus, it also means you might want to cover me if you're active tonight. Cops should probably be on Navy, alban, or RC, but you can also do me, if you really want.

Math scum flip means Docs on Cops, I think. I like Gamma for best bet, but do you, Titus. Cops should probably be on Titus, alban, or Navy. You could also check RC or I, but it seems like a really unlikely bus, so it's definitely not ideals.

[Titus]

2 more votes

I'm 99.9% sure we can count on RC, so that just leaves the hammer.

Math town flip means I'm on Titus if I'm active tonight. Titus, it also means you might want to cover me if you're active tonight. Cops should probably be on Navy, alban, or RC, but you can also do me, if you really want.

Math scum flip means Docs on Cops, I think. I like Gamma for best bet, but do you, Titus. Cops should probably be on Titus, alban, or Navy. You could also check RC or I, but it seems like a really unlikely bus, so it's definitely not ideals.

I agree with all of this but it's the wrong lynch. We need to solve the doctors, not the cops.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I'd rather not have navy copped if she's being a lurksack
I feel like if she were scum that would be giving her what she wants

[Titus]

Tbh I'd rather not have navy copped if she's being a lurksack
I feel like if she were scum that would be giving her what she wants

Then cop another unsolved doctor, but we should just be lynching Navy anyway.

Navy needs to be dead before all town must agree on a lynch.

[Kelvin Smith]

@2098 Kelvin Logical errors

When I say the case for what you presented in my opinion was Math was uncontrollable being equally valid, I was referring to the "validity" as in philosphy. If the premises were true (namely uncontrolled buddying means lynch), it would apply to both RC and Math.

Is RC buddying me in a way that is at all comparable to how Math is acting towards you? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying here?

If you townread someone, you should give them every tool possible to reach agreement and be open to their cases (which is why I keep asking). If town unites, we cannot lose. But if we feel whatever we do is a win lose proposition, then it's hard to progress. If you TR someone, work at getting their best.

I agree in some ways, but disagree overall. This shouldn't just apply to townreads, because one's townreads can be (and often are) wrong. If the entire town unites, then they can't lose, assuming that everyone is actually town-aligned. The problem is, sometimes scum sneak in there.

You mention near universal support for lynching in doctors. It's not true. You and RC want to lynch First, Math who is not a doctor. Second, near universal support for the correct play is a given. If there is guaranteed scum in a pool, solve that pool first.

RC is a new addition to this game, as am I. To my knowledge, it was universal before. And 8/10 is still fairly universal regardless.

Second, if near universal support for the correct play was a given, there would be no problems lynching Math. Yet I had an uphill battle the entire time pushing that.

Third, the pool won't be solved from a single scum lynch. You just go back to not knowing anything for certain. Rather than that, expanding your overall actual knowledge and making the pool smaller is arguably a smarter play.

Now when I said solving the doctor problem would solve the game, I wasn't kidding. On a whole, certain slots have avoided Navy while pushing alban. It creates a suggestion that NJAC and Paul may share an alignment, along with Math and Vedith. This presumes only one scum doc.

You could interpret it that way, but that doesn't make the interpretation correct. If one can't guarantee their interpretation is correct, then they haven't actually solved anything.

If two scum docs, that makes things interesting and deterring cops in docs is offthecharts scummy.

I mean, is it? Copping anywhere is pretty much fine. Information is information. Granted, there are some better strategic plays than others.

If all three scum are doctors, then scum are not bussing that doctor.

Really? Cause that seems like the scenario where they are most likely to bus. Nobody is going to suspect all three scum as Docs, so even if two get lynched, the last one can easily cast to the end of the game.

[Kelvin Smith]

2 more votes

I'm 99.9% sure we can count on RC, so that just leaves the hammer.

Math town flip means I'm on Titus if I'm active tonight. Titus, it also means you might want to cover me if you're active tonight. Cops should probably be on Navy, alban, or RC, but you can also do me, if you really want.

Math scum flip means Docs on Cops, I think. I like Gamma for best bet, but do you, Titus. Cops should probably be on Titus, alban, or Navy. You could also check RC or I, but it seems like a really unlikely bus, so it's definitely not ideals.

I agree with all of this but it's the wrong lynch. We need to solve the doctors, not the cops.

No, we need to solve the game. Cops and Docs are not mutually exclusive. And lynching Math helps some players either further solve the Docs or lynch scum.

[Kelvin Smith]

Tbh I'd rather not have navy copped if she's being a lurksack
I feel like if she were scum that would be giving her what she wants

Then Cops can go alban instead. I feel better about him as scum anyway, personally, so it would be good to know so that I can either clear the misconception from my head or confirm my suspicions.

[Titus]

1) Yes, I feel RC is treating you in a manner similar to Math treating me. Agreeing with whatever you want. RC is even being more obnoxious.

2) Yes, sometimes scum do sneak into a townblock. That doesn't mean we stop giving town what they need to communicate. The comminication helps the group vet itself. That's why my way or the highway is dangerous and why I rejected your vote where you felt bullied.

Math is a horrible lynch. That is why it lacks support. You basically shouted people where they said whatever without justifying the read you have convinced yourself of.

Expanding everyone's overall knowledge = finding the scum doctor. Then, look at who followed and who did not. Vote analysis fills in the rest.

Scum aren't going to bus if they can convince someone that all cops with clears are expendable and only check cops

If we have cops with clears in lylo, then the puzzle sorts itself.

If we have 3 clears not overlapping, we know at least 1 must be scum, since there are not 6 town. Then, we figure out which one fails to make sense. If there's a guilty, obviously it's an at least 1 v 1.

[Titus]

2 more votes

I'm 99.9% sure we can count on RC, so that just leaves the hammer.

Math town flip means I'm on Titus if I'm active tonight. Titus, it also means you might want to cover me if you're active tonight. Cops should probably be on Navy, alban, or RC, but you can also do me, if you really want.

Math scum flip means Docs on Cops, I think. I like Gamma for best bet, but do you, Titus. Cops should probably be on Titus, alban, or Navy. You could also check RC or I, but it seems like a really unlikely bus, so it's definitely not ideals.

I agree with all of this but it's the wrong lynch. We need to solve the doctors, not the cops.

No, we need to solve the game. Cops and Docs are not mutually exclusive. And lynching Math helps some players either further solve the Docs or lynch scum.

No. Cops can be all town. Remote but possible.
Lynching Math does zero to solve the game. Nothing. No one thinks I am likely scum. No one's cased Math.

Lynching and copping in docs solves the game. If you feel Vedith Math is a team, you should be 100% on board with this as Vedith as scum hates it.

[Kelvin Smith]

1) Yes, I feel RC is treating you in a manner similar to Math treating me. Agreeing with whatever you want. RC is even being more obnoxious.

He hasn't agreed with everything I want. We've presented very different ideas about how to work the PR situation. And so far, i haven't found a single person who supports my idea of lynching Cops with Innocent results, other than possibly Paul. And RC was the one who brought up alban as scum, I believe. And he's the tone who pushed for you being town, even though I said I thought you were scum.

2) Yes, sometimes scum do sneak into a townblock. That doesn't mean we stop giving town what they need to communicate. The comminication helps the group vet itself. That's why my way or the highway is dangerous and why I rejected your vote where you felt bullied.

I don't necessarily agree that communication helps the group vet itself. And rejecting my vote didn't really help me communicate with you any better. Luckily, it's given us the opportunity for a Math lynch though, so I'm not going to begrudge you for it, even though that was never your intent.

Math is a horrible lynch. That is why it lacks support. You basically shouted people where they said whatever without justifying the read you have convinced yourself of.

That's not an accurate representation of things. As near as I can tell, you are the only one that townreads Math, which is probably why they are continuing to hide behind the hem of your skirt. Almost nobody is saying Math is town, yet for quite a while, they all opposed Math's lynch, which strikes me as pretty suspect.

Expanding everyone's overall knowledge = finding the scum doctor. Then, look at who followed and who did not. Vote analysis fills in the rest.

Vote analysis can be helpful, but it's also flawed. It makes too many assumptions about the reasons why people put their votes where they did.

Scum aren't going to bus if they can convince someone that all cops with clears are expendable and only check cops

That depends on the scum. Once more, you're making too many assumptions.

If we have cops with clears in lylo, then the puzzle sorts itself.

Does it though? How do we know which Cop to trust?

If we have 3 clears not overlapping, we know at least 1 must be scum, since there are not 6 town. Then, we figure out which one fails to make sense. If there's a guilty, obviously it's an at least 1 v 1.

But remaining scum Cops are probably going to hold out as long as they can before giving a result. And then they can just give the result that supports their narrative the best, based on the situation. That relies on everyone making he right choice, which is a crapshoot. I prefer dealing with more concrete answers, when possible.

[MathBlade]

No way I can read all this while game night goes on.

Someone catch me up on what I need to answer if anything.

[Kelvin Smith]

No. Cops can be all town. Remote but possible.

Which still means that we have to discover that by solving that puzzle.

Lynching Math does zero to solve the game. Nothing. No one thinks I am likely scum. No one's cased Math.

Look, I think you are less likely to be scum, but I still suspect you. Something about you feels very wrong to me and it's not just that you are disagreeing with me. Stop acting like nobody suspects you.

Lynching and copping in docs solves the game. If you feel Vedith Math is a team, you should be 100% on board with this as Vedith as scum hates it.

I'm not even sure what you're getting at here. But I'm afraid I'll likely be staying on the Math wagon.

[Titus]

We solve the game by lynching docs unless there's a scumclaim. I have left open Math buddying me, but the more you try to force a math lynch, the less I will do it.

[Kelvin Smith]

No way I can read all this while game night goes on.

Someone catch me up on what I need to answer if anything.

I'm not sure if anything has been directed at you in a while, but you are going to be lynched.

If you are town, please try to give us your final words of wisdom and we'll do with it what we can.

If you're scum, don't bother, just self-vote. There is no escape.

[Titus]

It tells me nothing and doesn't hunt confirmed scum. Unless you case Math, you're not getting my vote.

[Titus]

And if you mention "optimal strategy", I am straight up ignoring anything else.

[Kelvin Smith]

It tells me nothing and doesn't hunt confirmed scum. Unless you case Math, you're not getting my vote.

That's alright. As much as I'd like the final vote to lynch Math, I know better than to try to get it from you in this situation.

[Kelvin Smith]

Also, I'd like to apologize. I've been in this game just over a week and already have the second-most posts. Hopefully my excessive posting has done some good in this game and will result in a win, because I realize it must be hell for everyone involved.

[Titus]

Also, I'd like to apologize. I've been in this game just over a week and already have the second-most posts. Hopefully my excessive posting has done some good in this game and will result in a win, because I realize it must be hell for everyone involved.

And just what have you learned?

You've been outshouting everyone else to lynch a slot that's frequently lynched for what? You came in with an agenda and have blocked anything else.

You could have 50000 million posts to me. I'm pissed I cannot test any theories here because you're shouting everyone out and bullying lynches.

I couldn't test alban because you dismantled it right before he proved his alignment.

Town needs all but 1 of us to agree. If you think Navy's town (by refusal to vote, yes), then you NEED me.

Same, I need one of you two to actually agree on a good wagon at a minimum.

[MathBlade]

...I have been offline and my three are Kelvin Navy Alban.

[MathBlade]

Just tell me who has majority and I will join it. Can't read to find out what is going on at game night.