Newbie 1810 - Super Vanilla (GAMEOVER)

[Boonskiies]

no cuz here's the difference

last game I had a mild scumread on you but called you confirmed scum to see how you reacted.

this time your tone is just so, incredibly terrible that you're just in the bag already

incredibly terrible? I'm boonskiies. People always think my town is incredibly terrible. And I know how to deal with you better now.

[Boonskiies]

Like, I'm 100% right that literally every time you are in a game with me, you go after me shortly after coming into the game, but not immediately.

And you are ALWAYS wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm puking up blood and have zero desire to talk to you. I'll deal with this later.

[Boonskiies]

I'm actually really surprised they put us in the same game from the beginning, tbh.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've kept things civil. I kept things as civil as I could in our last game. I have the right to scumread you.

[Boonskiies]

I've kept things civil. I kept things as civil as I could in our last game. I have the right to scumread you.

You claimed a fake guilty on a newbie in that game, and I was told post game that I handled it as well as I could have and then went on to start being in the IC queue. But thanks for admitting you are voting on a personal level instead of a actual reasons.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah I did because you did your utmost to encourage people to disrespect my reads. I had also had an incredible amount of alcohol, but sober or otherwise I am not going to respond positively to that. I don't drunk mafia anymore.

I am not having this conversation with you any further.

[Boonskiies]

I keep things civil, but I also tell it as it is. You always say I'm basically confirmed scum when you come into the games, and you are always wrong when you do that. You say my tone is different? I'm playing as an IC this game. Of course it's going to be different. And none of my town games look similar. I do that on purpose.

[Boonskiies]

Yeah I did because you did your utmost to encourage people to disrespect my reads. I had also had an incredible amount of alcohol, but sober or otherwise I am not going to respond positively to that. I don't drunk mafia anymore.

I am not having this conversation with you any further.

I mean, in the end, I was right, and you were wrong that game...so why should I have encouraged your reads? I knew exactly where scum was that game, and you fake guiltied a newbie slot to get your point across, and you were wrong.

RC, idk how familiar you are with DBZ, but we're like Goku/Vegeta, doesn't matter who's who...both skilled, but they can't work together for the life of them, and if they could, they'd be great.

[RadiantCowbells]

not talking to you.

[Boonskiies]

not talking to you.

I rest my case.

[osuka]

okay so what's the deal here? can i get some context other than what I could get from the two of you flaming each other? do the two of you just personally hate each other?

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah I'm not talking to you because I'm incredibly sick and I don't want to fight right now

take it personally all you want. or did you not read 152

[osuka]

yeah I'm not talking to you because I'm incredibly sick and I don't want to fight right now

take it personally all you want. or did you not read 152

i'm not 100% sure this is directed at me but I did and I meant to tell you to go take care of yourself, though I forgot because i'm notoriously absent minded

I don't even know you but please be safe & take care of yourself

[mallowgeno]

Guys cool it please. This is a game with newbies in it and we want them to have a good impression on how mafia games are played. Thanks!

[RadiantCowbells]

That's not directed at you! I just want to make it clear why I am not responding to Boon.

[MartinNikolai]

Sorry I haven't been able to post in a while. I'm actually at a mock trial competition right now (tomorrow is my final round, wish me luck as the prosecutor!) and I realize a lot has happened.

First, is the feud between boonskiies and RadiantCowbells a normal thing for mafia games? Or does it have something to do with something outside this game? If so, we should take both of those claims seriously, but if it's the latter we should probably just move on from that.

Second, I see that osuka and Mjollnir are arguing over a scumread over, well, me and Mjollnir. Can I ask the reasons for those scumreads/reasons for townreads?

Third, I see that no one has outed as the BP. If you are a One-Shot Bullet-Proof Townie, could you out yourself? There is honestly no reason for you to lie. Plus, it gives us a safe hammer for D1 at least, perhaps for D2.

Finally, what's the conversation osuka and Mario had about a no-lynch vs. a town lynch? I've never played a mafia game where you start in a lynching phase, so the way I see it, a town lynch today would mean we have 6 town, 2 mafia, with the next day making it 5 town, 2 mafia. In a no lynch, we'd have 7 town, 2 mafia, with the next day being 6 town, 2 mafia. In other words, wouldn't a no lynch end us up with an extra night to do some investigating/tracking? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

[MarioManiac4]

One extra night for doing investigating/tracking/ohshitwehaveneither with the mafia essentially choosing our lynch is worse than actually getting a flip we want. It's like an investigation but public.
I agree with Nikolai!town btw

[Mjollnir]

Radiant what happened to wanting to keep that strong scumread under wraps for a bit to let conversation flow naturally? Was Boonskiies the one you were talking about there? What is it about his tone that you dislike? (I do appreciate that it can be difficult to put tone and gut reads into words, but I'd still like you to try for the purposes of seeing where exactly you're coming from here.)

Actually speaking of Boonskiies, now that I am less tired I have spotted something curious about his reasoning for voting me. One of the two reasons he gave for scumreading me was that he didn't like how I opposed the BP claim idea. He felt I may have hidden knowledge due to it. I have two questions based on this:
1) I was not the only one to oppose the idea, Mario was dead set against it too. This however was not mentioned in Boonskiies read of him. Why's that?
2) You yourself mentioned that scum could also use the BP claim for information as well, as per the post below:

I generally don't know how I feel about the bp claim. If I was scum, and I get a BP claim, I'm going to shoot the BP night 1. Sure, you risk the chance of being tracked, but you also can potentially get an easy mislynch if it's the JK setup. And then you can actually kill the 1 shot bp claim the next night, or kill the outed JK.

You clearly acknowledge that scum may not necessarily be opposed to the BP claiming for their own informational purposes. I fail to see how you can square this with your accusation that I may be scum based on this. These two positions appear to be directly contradictory, though I will give you a chance to explain this in case I have misread you.

[Mjollnir]

Also Boonskiies, your repeated failures to answer my previous questions have not gone unnoticed. Same thing can be said to you Mario perhaps even more so, I danced your dance in explaining why I was asking my question to you, I would appreciate if you returned the favour here.

[Mjollnir]

Aplogies, that's meant to say Osuka above, not Boonskiies.

[Mjollnir]

Second, I see that osuka and Mjollnir are arguing over a scumread over, well, me and Mjollnir. Can I ask the reasons for those scumreads/reasons for townreads?

Best of luck first of all Martin!

I am going to explain why I am scumreading you, however I don't feel I or anyone else should explain the rest for you. I feel it is best that you explore this yourself and come up with your own opinions and interpretations of them. That is the only way you are going to come up with your own unbiased analysis on the situations and the best way to see the opinions through the lens of your alignment alone.

My vote is on you because I was concerned that you were more worried about not standing out and/or holding a potentially unpopular opinion than actually trying to follow through with the opinion you held on the Tracker coming forward when you previously expressed that you felt doing this would be massively advantageous to the town. In other words, I got the feeling you cared more about people's perceptions of you than doing something you felt was helpful to the town, which is something that scum is far more likely to do than town given how valuable a scum life to their team is compared to town lives to ours (2v7).

[Mjollnir]

Oh, and no it is not normal for such a fued to occur as Boon and Radiant has had, that seems to be a continuation of a fued they have had outside this one.

[MarioManiac4]

Mjollnir, Osuka wanted to delay the day after the lynch has already been decided which is wasting time.
Now let's see some analysis of my motivations.

[Mjollnir]

Spoiler:

I was town reading Osuka pretty hard until the unvote. Seemed a little too worried about a lynch going through. It's not something I'm going to start scum reading him for, but it does make me a little less sure of the town read there.

I know I'm the subject in question but to me that's very interesting. Serious question: wouldn't town want to wait a little before lynching?

But more importantly, wouldn't scum

benefit

from a mislynch? At 9 alive and 2 scum, there's only a 0.22 (repeating) chance that it'll not be a townie. And even then, that's assuming a completely random lynch - which would mean completely disregarding the fact that I was the one that initially called martin out on a reveal strat that I thought was shitty on the first place.

I'm just asking because I really wanna learn the thought process - you're both obviously more experienced than I am, and our reads are going the opposite way here. Mjollnir's vote makes me like him a little more for scum, but I have a feeling you guys are gonna disagree with me on that one, and I'm really curious as to why.

Do you mean the bit at the top of this quote here? Because if so, I don't think he was suggesting quite what you said. We weren't anywhere close to deciding on a lynch as you said, instead he seemed to be unvoting as he didn't want a lynch too quick in the day which is a pretty reasonable thing to worry about. This is not wasting time, this is making sure we take enough time to make a well-reasoned lynch. How did you interpret his statement here?