Mini Normal 1917: :X Mafia (Game over!)

[Cheetory6]

I have a sick idea
what if
we lynch Hiraki

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i need time to actually get my thoughts together i've been shit this day phase

[Cheetory6]

It's okay giga I've been shit this whole game.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but it's normal 1917

i have standards to uphold this game

[Cheetory6]

I could case Hiraki,
my biggest hesitation is that if Grendel is scum I will feel dumb for ignoring kraska's like 100% confidence on him being scum.

[Cheetory6]

Was fun enough doing that with Nero yesterday,
not sure I want to go through another round of it today.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm like 30% sure grendel's town here








and i've learned to never be more than 30% sure of anything

i might towncase him or something but it doesnt feel right

[Grendel]

*@All*

I'd like to pick at the plausibility of a scum aligned role stopper. I think that NotPual successfully visiting Mutton N2 is a decent indication that the stopper is scum aligned. As a scum role stopper would target their own to achieve a tempory ascetic modification, preventing a buddy from getting guiltied. I do not see a likely world where town role stopper does not protect Mutton, an ousted investigative.

Therefore I'd be wary of any rolestopper claims from uncleared players in the future. I would like you all to agree and come back to this point when and if a role stopper claims. Consider it a solid for me.

Pre-edit

Why is 1917 so important?

[Grendel]

Tbh I don't really have much energy for this game. I was hedging my bets on getting lynched this day phase so I don't get burned out down the line, and lose the game for everybody.

Like you guys are getting paranoid I'm town now, but if I'm wrong about Hiraki/Backhand then I'm toast lol

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why is 1917 so important?

october revolution

wrt the rolestopper that's actually a good point but then why would scum no-kill n1 as if they were building up towncred for their role but then not actually use it in a town way in future days while they know their claim will be under scrutiny?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh and lemme point out the tracker soft

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Wait what happened with MCM and kraska? is MCM fruit vendor? Kraska recieved amne cops results??

What did you do last night?

VOTE: NTRP

Answer it please.

i thought this was coming from a suspicious visit result

[Grendel]

Spoiler:

I think most of last night's discussion is hard to parse. A problem with theory discussion (not that I've never been guilty of doing it) is that people will generally be honest about their theory thoughts and even if you disagree, your feelings about RQS are probably not scum or town indicative.

As I said above though, CCC is pretty obviously town. Think Cheetory and DRK have done a good job of trying to move forward, slight townreads there.

Everyone else somewhere in the middle.

Leaning Scum:

MCM is obnoxious and going to be really hard to read, OMGUS voted grendel, we could do worse.

I agree accountant's VI post is more "gotcha" than real but it did ping me, I'm not forgetting about it.
Raya was a little on the defensive side, would like her to come back and catch up.

The more I reread MCM's stuff the less I like it. I don't believe that he believes that rqs is actually a scumtell.

Vote MCM

idk, when I read this it looks like Back Hand taking advantage of Mutton's speech gimmick.

"Player x is mildly annoying, and there are ppl voting him. Sounds like a safe place to start."

VOTE: BackHand

I don't really want to put up with a contrivance the whole game, and I'll admit that's probably coloring my views, but if you look past that to the content, you get:

An OMGUS vote, poorly explained
An OMGUS vote, not at all explained

I'm baffled as to why anyone would townread the slot.

I may be taking it too far the other way. I also don't want to have to put up with this all game, and it's leaving a bad impression - so to compensate, I'm completely ignoring my general impression and trying to work on explicit tells only.

That's what scares me--that people are compensating too much.

My first game here was viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71640 where it became very clear in retrospect that we had all given rb and thefuzzylogic too much leeway in not engaging with the game because they both had weird or disengaged playstyles. Maybe I'm overreacting to that one game, but as long as me and mcm are both in the game he'll be under increased scrutiny from me.

But I'm feeling better with this morning's interactions.

Vote notmafia

Haven't caught up yet, or don't want to? Whatcha thinking?

Alright, we gotta do something. Not_mafia's one game-relevant sentence does not move me off of thinking he's the best choice. Of the other people under real discussion, gamma would be my next choice. I do not think NTRP or PP are scum. If there's time for a flashwagon on nero I'd join, accountant's play slightly pinged me and nero hasn't done anything except park on one of the easy lynches (PP).

Yeah. . . maybe. Could also be rid of him because *another* replacement cannot be good for the game, its already hard enough to remember who replaced who.

<Regarding Gamma's replace out

Also jesus, one of mutton or gamma please switch your avatar.

P-Edit: Why are you wanting to kill Not_Mafia?
Explain it to me like I'm stupid.

Well, if you give me that kind of opportunity

Towns actually suck at lynching scum Day 1. Always have, always will (because they don't know anything and the scum do). We have a player who has not said a single useful word. Doesn't mean he's scum, but as town we're probably going to fuck this one up anyway. If he keeps not saying anything, he's not getting nightkilled. Would you rather still have a player we have no way of getting info from lingering on Day 3, or endgame?

Plus the principle of it. I want to keep playing with people who are playing the game.

Backhand expressed willingness to lynch players with the underlying motivation that the lynch was ultimately not about alignment, but about getting rid of bad posters.

There wasn’t much behind his Penguin vote, but it was a deadline compromise vote on a wagon that Backhand townread.

He also went on to town read players actually producing Content that day {Me, CCC, DeathrowKitty, later Kraska and Cheet} despite many of use probably being able to fake good D1 content as scum. It felt like he was looking at a check box for acceptable activity, and we made the grade. Like little introspective about motivations outside of... maybe Kraska. Backhand was a very strong gut town read on Kraska from their entrance onward.

I think that the only low content poster he town read was Not Puel, and that was over a town slip, and pr soft.

Overall it’s a very black/white approach to the game for a player that doesn’t seem to be a normally hard line player. I say this because Backhand keeps a pretty chill rhetoric even when annoyed this game. (I think that clashes a bit with his first game here where he was frustrated to the point of cursing and dramatics) Like I guess I could see him being a “it is my way or nobodies” if he had the same level of frustration at getting called out here that he did elsewhere, but I don’t see that. Low content always equals scummy, high content is always town is a really simplistic way to view it. Like even taking into consideration that it was D1 it felt shoehorned in there.


Could also see Backhand keeping Nero as back pocket read, He had a stated candor to lynch Nero that never seems to come ful circle D1. I wish that Kraska wasn’t Conf!towned so quickly so I could see if the pattern persisted.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Nero Cain

Yeah, but he's been worse since then. I really don't think kraska is scum, this feels exactly right to me.

Like, I could be wrong, but kraska is just oozing genuine feeling frustration at being wagoned in a way that doesn't feel scummy to me and I'm honestly not confident that Gamma didn't just replace out because he genuinely wasn't getting into the game [which I feel is probably more just a common symptom of normal games, rather than anything AI].

I'd happily switch back to PP over nero, but that didn't seem to have much traction.

Nero, maybe this is just your game, but you don't really reply in a way that screams "engage with me" so much as "if you vote for me I am going to yell at you until you stop." Saying that you have only come in to defend yourself is not totally fair, but its not made up either.

Mostly I townread kraska and cheet pretty strongly, and I've vacillated on CCC but am coming back around to town on him. I'll bounce to whatever deadline wagon isn't in that group.

Like he votes here, but is super quick to move back to Penguin. It also weird how Nero exists in an isolated state as far as conclusions go for Backhand. Every other wagon that Back hand was on, or was supportive of was on a player that he considered to be objectively bad at playing mafia. He never voiced that same sentiments for Accountant/Nero.

[Grendel]

Wait what happened with MCM and kraska? is MCM fruit vendor? Kraska recieved amne cops results??

What did you do last night?

VOTE: NTRP

Answer it please.

i thought this was coming from a suspicious visit result

That's... Yeah, I should have noticed that.

[Grendel]

Hello! This thread escalated quickly.

MCM, why make a big post on CCC and not change your vote?

I actually had a scum read on Backhand before he ever posted in the game because I distinctly remember him being online the day that the game was lunched for at least four hours (that was the same amount of time I was online that night). He never showed up to the thread proper to post anything, and was not posting anywhere else on site. I even checked later. The 3rd of June was when this game started, Backhand has no posts in the other two games that were having game over discussion on the 3rd, but does have posts on the 2nd, and 4th. Backhands first post in this game was the 4th. Ei, Backhand was probably hiding out in the scum PT the day the game started.

This was the ethically gray thing I wasn't gonna mention. I decided I might as well if it lynches scum tomarrow.

Ugh, this sucks as a reason to get lynched for either alignment! Other interpretation, I was busy on a Saturday.

On 1905 to 1915, 1905 was my first forum game in a long time and I was less inclined to take strong positions like *players who are known to be fucking useless and skate on it* is unacceptable. I felt at the time that people were trying to get easy towncred by defending not Mafia, so I took a stronger position than I totally believe in, to see what happened.

That’s why I wasn’t going to bring it up. You could have been on, but afk, or browsing other web pages, or whatever. But it can’t be validated, alI I know is that you were on and never said anything. Just a simple “Hi” in the thread proper would have worked.
---
Except a lot of your pushes looked less like specifically scum reading players, and more like, “This player is playing badly guys lets lynch him.” Like what were you expecting them to flip scum or were your fear voting b/c you saw scum get away with it before? Why?

You had a reason to justify your actions based of a previous game. But having a reason doesn't mean that your have pure motives while doing it.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

going to sink my teeth in here for real tomorrow i think

[Grendel]

Why is 1917 so important?

october revolution

wrt the rolestopper that's actually a good point but then why would scum no-kill n1 as if they were building up towncred for their role but then not actually use it in a town way in future days while they know their claim will be under scrutiny?

Do you think there is a team out of {Backhand, Not_mafia, Hiraki} that would have been negligent enough to forget to send a night kill?

Would Nero have been on top of that stuff if his teammates weren't?

(I know its a little silly, but u never kno)

[Grendel]

I'll look at Hiraki tomorrow night.

I don't think I'll be able to get to reinforcing my town reads.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why is 1917 so important?

october revolution

wrt the rolestopper that's actually a good point but then why would scum no-kill n1 as if they were building up towncred for their role but then not actually use it in a town way in future days while they know their claim will be under scrutiny?

Do you think there is a team out of {Backhand, Not_mafia, Hiraki} that would have been negligent enough to forget to send a night kill?

Would Nero have been on top of that stuff if his teammates weren't?

(I know its a little silly, but u never kno)

No, I really don't see any combo of three forgetting to submit a nk?? lmao

thats kind of tough to do - occam says dont consider it

[Grendel]

It's okay giga I've been shit this whole game.

While I was signing up to play with CCC, there were quite a few players that I was looking forward to reading/watching this game.

I don't want to make you feel bad or guilty or anything, but you were actually one of the players I was looking forward to playing with the most.

Here's hoping you'll make a comeback later this game.

[Grendel]

Why is 1917 so important?

october revolution

wrt the rolestopper that's actually a good point but then why would scum no-kill n1 as if they were building up towncred for their role but then not actually use it in a town way in future days while they know their claim will be under scrutiny?

Do you think there is a team out of {Backhand, Not_mafia, Hiraki} that would have been negligent enough to forget to send a night kill?

Would Nero have been on top of that stuff if his teammates weren't?

(I know its a little silly, but u never kno)

No, I really don't see any combo of three forgetting to submit a nk?? lmao

thats kind of tough to do - occam says dont consider it

I know that your are objectively correct. I just had a real strong feeling last night/this morning that rolestopper makes a lot of since for the scum team.

[Grendel]

like grendel's defeatist attitude is sitting well with me here and is exactly how i would expect him specifically as town to feel here

ccc doesnt make sense with the gamestate as scum.

Giga, I should have told you sooner.

But I

really really really

did not like you characterzing me as a defeatist.

I'm vocally self aware as a player, and I did predict my own lynch happening once D2 unfolded. But I never voiced any sentiments that I thought town was losing. I very much believe town will win. Outside of me complaining about the awful state of affairs D1 I been very positive about things. Even regarding my own lynch. Like describing me as a defeatist paints a much more negative picture of my actions then what they actually are.

That really rubbed me the wrong way, but I didn't realize that was what I wanted to articulate until today.

[Grendel]

like grendel's defeatist attitude is sitting well with me here and is exactly how i would expect him specifically as town to feel here

ccc doesnt make sense with the gamestate as scum.

Giga, I should have told you sooner.

But I

really really really

did not like you characterzing me as a defeatist.

I'm vocally self aware as a player, and I did predict my own lynch happening once D2 unfolded. But I never voiced any sentiments that I thought town was losing. I very much believe town will win. Outside of me complaining about the awful state of affairs D1 I been very positive about things. Even regarding my own lynch. Like describing me as a defeatist paints a much more negative picture of my actions then what they actually are.

That really rubbed me the wrong way, but I didn't realize that was what I wanted to articulate until today.

By sooner I mean while you were still on to give a response

[gigabyteTroubadour]

by defeatest I mean that you're expecting to get lynched?

is that wrong or

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also grendel

the rolestopper was probably on paul

mutton claimed a 1 shot pr which means he has less utility over paul who more than likely from an uninformed rolestopper's pov has multiple shots