Micro 729: C-C9 Mafia | Game Over

[Gorkington]

oh it looks like myko's only got 2 votes now
i should fix this

vote: myko

[Gorkington]

So, do you want to talk about Tenshii's vote? I think there's some interesting parts to that post, not just related to his vote.

okay myko lets talk.
what are the interesting parts of his last post that you wanted to talk about?
youre still voting him so im assuming you still find him scummy, you probably should be outlining why. especially since you apparently have so many good options for people to vote right now.

did you really think that tenshii had nothing going on behind the scenes with his original few posts?

[mykonian]

Wasn't entirely the idea that I'd do the analysis again, but to speak with the legend himself: whatever

Whatever.

VOTE: Chamber

1) His questions alot of the time are nudging towards painting others as scum instead of trying to figure out alignment
2) Dodging questions (ex. Realeo's and Tenshii's)

I asked Chamber "What did you think of Gork's hypoclaim proposal from pre-game?" without outting any reads because I wanted Chamber's answer to be as unbiased as possible. I wanted to see if Gork's proposal was unbiased and truly what he thought was optimal or possibly came from a scum perspective.

Hypoclaiming, IME, can be exploitable by scum. I haven't thought of setup strategy too hard. But off the top of my head, it's optimal (but not necessarily what scum will do) to nightkill any hypoclaim that's on a townie. This increases the chances of killing a real cop's report on another cop. There's also standard hypoclaim exploits when only one cop is alive.

The reason I kept persisting on questioning myko is because it's very easy to abandon reads post-flip. His two main scumreads are Chamber and Tenshii yet he's unwilling to mention teams. As scum, if one were to flip town, it's very easy to just continue pushing the 2nd read the next day.

And you can argue backwards and forwards about that choice of word (whatever) but lets agree it's not one of scumhunting enthusiasm. The chamber vote is hardly inspiring with the amount of focus that's been on him. Nothing new is said. But fair enough, not everybody can be. Lets even forget for a second that he's only interested in the two focal points at this current time (me and chamber). The troublesome part for me, that I thought other people might pick up, is his focus when it comes to the theory part of this post. Fine, theory is a topic by now, however: The first thought isn't how he could perfect that as town, he doesn't even think through his first roadblock he encounters. His first thought is how scum should deal with this... and then he stops. I think that's him slipping his mentality, both in the initial response, but also in not following through where it could become town again.

What says you?

[Gorkington]

it sounds like tenshii is pretty familiar with hypoclaiming.
it comes across as much more likely that hes just pointing out what he sees as exploitable aspects to a strategy that he thinks is weaker than playing the game in a straightforward manner?

[Gorkington]

like, what would have been the town way to go about that?
would town him have gone through all of the pros and cons of what town would do vs scum would do? why is it not just him taking a step back and thinking "what will scum do to fuck with whats going on?"?
are you actually confident that scum is more likely to do that than town or are you just spitballing here?

[mykonian]

like, what would have been the town way to go about that?
would town him have gone through all of the pros and cons of what town would do vs scum would do? why is it not just him taking a step back and thinking "what will scum do to fuck with whats going on?"?
are you actually confident that scum is more likely to do that than town or are you just spitballing here?

Do you see the town point of view turn up in his post at all?

Even if your first thought is how it could go horribly wrong through a certain line of scum's, how's not your next thought: "well how can I fix this". In this case, say you predominantly direct people to target their scumreads. For one, you get a claim situation where you can criticise people, the second, you avoid tenshii's line. And it's dead obvious first solution (if scum follow his strategy, they shoot in their mislynch pool), but he doesn't even give it a thought. I don't know if it's

the

solution, but then you can talk about it.

I don't understand how you can look at a post that makes the choice to think about the setup, and the only features the scum side of things, no interest in advancing what town could do about it, and consider this perfectly fine. It's as unnatural as it gets.

[Gorkington]

i mean, if we're going by unnatural, i feel like most of your posts feel kind of unnatural
youre getting a little bit of a botd until i can metadive and get a better feel for your towngame, but it feels like youre stretching so hard with every post to get to a conclusion.
and im also kind of struggling to hear your voice in your posts which is also not great.
:/

in terms of tenshii, like, okay?
i just think its a really big stretch, and its kind of uncomfortable that you think it should be obvious or convincing to a serious degree.
have you ever caught someone on a similar angle before?
=============================================

also ive been thinking more about how good no lynch is,
and im not as sure it would be worth it.

considering 9 players, 2 scum, scum has a pool of 7 to shoot from, scum can shoot the cop, scum can shoot the cop's target, cops could both target the same person.

with only 9 people i dont think the benefits of no lynching and potentially avoiding lynching a cop are worth the very slight odds of a hypoclaim actually working out in the off chance that we dont lose a cop and both cops get results on living people. we're also trading away a day one lynch which is one of town's best weapons, especially being able to go back and see how people voted and why.

it doesnt really seem like its that gamebreaking of a strategy when the playerlist is so small and copshit is so likely to get messed with.
i think we're better off trying our best to read people and lynch people and hopefully 1-2 cop results along the way will give us something extra to work with.
ie: if we lynch scum today, we've basically got this in the bag and im cocky and think we can do it, so.
(and we should probably be hypoclaiming if we lynch scum today, or full on claiming if we lose a cop? i think?)

if im being stupid here people can hit me but i feel semi-justified in going about my business of getting people murdered on d1 atm

[mykonian]

i mean, if we're going by unnatural, i feel like most of your posts feel kind of unnatural
youre getting a little bit of a botd until i can metadive and get a better feel for your towngame, but it feels like youre stretching so hard with every post to get to a conclusion.

You can go in the townpool.

I won't preempt your meta dive, but you aren't being unfair in your judgement.

in terms of tenshii, like, okay?
i just think its a really big stretch, and its kind of uncomfortable that you think it should be obvious or convincing to a serious degree.
have you ever caught someone on a similar angle before?

I don't keep track. I do catch scum now and then. There's nobody in this game that I know so well I think I should be able to determine 90 percent correctly what allignment they are.

I think the bolded line in tenshii's post should stick out to everybody. He makes a weird choice in topic (if you find theory to be a minor scumtell, doubly so), and then ends it in a weird manner. You don't have to agree with me, but it seems an obvious point to stop and have a think. The rest of the post rather goes with the flow, so is more ignorable.

[Edosurist]

Hey guys, was busy this weekend. I'll post today.

[Papa Zito]

botd

what's dis

[mykonian]

google gave breath of death or benefit of the doubt. I had to look as well!

[Gorkington]

benefit of the doubt.
cant keep up with the millenial slang can you dad?
p-edit: wow.

[Papa Zito]

My kids say the weirdest shit lately, I have no idea what they're talking about anymore.

[mykonian]

benefit of the doubt.
cant keep up with the millenial slang can you dad?
p-edit: wow.

I claim foreign.

Shuddup.

[Papa Zito]

sorry, i will be here tomorrow <3

Incidentally I'd like to remind the class of this post.

[chamber]

Myko, what made you go from thinking Gork is buddying you to thinking he's town? The most recent claim that he's being reasonable seems insufficient given that your reason for doubting him has been stated as him being the only reasonable one.

[mykonian]

And suddenly you can't read anymore. I'm sure in the amount of words I've put down you could come up with something that is true, like cheet says, plenty of people think I stretch my arguments. This however, is just making up a very convenient contradiction where there is none. For someone who doesn't like coming up with arguments, you do like slinging mud.

Hey! Friend! Hey Friend!

I have a wagon and I reserved a place for you <3

I do scumread Tenshii. Chamber. You. Eso, Zito. BTD annoys me. Even gork who either buddied me or actually is town is being lazy. It's silly that in a 9 place game I have to go through 5 options before I end up with my blind-spot-scum.

if you think it was me buddying you there you have a very strange perspective of things.

put it this way, you said what I wanted to hear in a town that I'm struggling to deal with. I desperately want you to be my friend, yet how often do I not find I find the wrong type of friends

I'm being plenty clear that I like gork, but I know that I'm fooled by people who occupy his position in my games. What does a blindspot mean to you Chamber? Or did you just happen to miss that part of the conversation? I bet that will go unanswered once more.

[chamber]

Your understand of when I will or wont answer something seems to be fundamentally flawed despite me laying out my reasoning previously. Though at the same time I suspect you don't actually want an answer to that question and that it's rhetorical. My answer is simple though, a blindspot you are aware of isn't a blindspot.

You can go in the townpool.

This post feels definitive. Like you are now not considering him as possibly buddying you despite an appearance of self awareness over your 'blindspots' previously. Why the change?

[mykonian]

He posts what townies post about me.

[chamber]

When you run into something that you don't know how to interpret, what is your course of action?

[Realeo]

Me feel want to give Gork some town creds, but can't tell if he actually deserve town credits or not.

Me gonna vote BTD. For temporary, the reasoning would be kept secret. Reasoning may be released in future.

VOTE: BTD

[Gorkington]

i always deserve town credits.

[Papa Zito]

I hope chamber and Myko invite me to the wedding.

More BTD votes are always welcome.

[Draynth]

Day 1, Votecount 5

Mykonian (3)

: Edosurist, Chamber, Gorkington

(L-2)

BTD6_Maker (2): Papa Zito, Realeo
Tenshii (1): Mykonian
Chamber (1): Tenshii

No Lynch (1):

BTD6_Maker

Not Voting (1):

Bellaphant

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-07-22 00:00:00)[/area]

*If I ever make a mistake in a VC please don't hesitate to let me know!
**Bellaphant has been prodded.

[mykonian]

**Bellaphant has been prodded.

I hope chamber and Myko invite me to the wedding.

More BTD votes are always welcome.

Seems random, but sure.

vote btd