Mini Normal 1929 - Game Over

[Mulch]

Admittedly that's a good reason to scumread someone but I want to see where your getting that from me

[WhyMafia]

Scorpious, give me your read on me right now.

Leaning scum. Your posts seem calculated and well thought upon. Not in content,but in how they will be perceived.

Which ones?

-_-

[Mulch]

I can already tell this game is going to be too slow

[Scorpious]

Disgusting. You've pointed out two posts of mine out of 30 that I've made, and the two posts are the ones that can be construyed as typically scummy that actually aren't scummy, like self meta and pointing out that IO was obvious town. Comment on the rest of my posts, or make some advanacement of the game. This is the second time you've done it and it's starting to fucking annoy me

Damn, Homie.. chill....

Why are you so concerned about which posts I comment on? Do you think I should focus on something more mundane that you might have said?

Why did you post that nonsense about kinda following the game and wanted to replace into an "obvious" town slot? What purpose other than planting your town flag did it serve?

Lets say you were wrong. What then? How would you react to having to play scum which is something you plainly did not want according to you?

[Steel]

What purpose other than planting your town flag did it serve?

I believe this is likely real thinking from scorpious.

[Steel]

VOTE: Llamafluff

I would justify this more if I could, but right now this is mostly a PoE read.

[Mulch]

Disgusting. You've pointed out two posts of mine out of 30 that I've made, and the two posts are the ones that can be construyed as typically scummy that actually aren't scummy, like self meta and pointing out that IO was obvious town. Comment on the rest of my posts, or make some advanacement of the game. This is the second time you've done it and it's starting to fucking annoy me

Damn, Homie.. chill....

Why are you so concerned about which posts I comment on? Do you think I should focus on something more mundane that you might have said?

Why did you post that nonsense about kinda following the game and wanted to replace into an "obvious" town slot? What purpose other than planting your town flag did it serve?

Lets say you were wrong. What then? How would you react to having to play scum which is something you plainly did not want according to you?

I think you should try and evaluate everything I am doing instead of the most level one push posts in the history of the world like self meta, which is perceived as scummy but isn't scummy and has also been pointed out by two other people before this... try and see if I actually am trying to solve and figure out theg ame, see if I have scum motiviation, and not go "doy, self meta", and basically say it's scummy (you implied this). That's a towny mentality. Scum mentality is looking at easy things to push without actually thinking it's scummy.

Your other questions are good. I posted about coming into an obvious town slot...with no other purpose to plant my town flag. I want to be townread. I don't want to be lynched, etc, etc. There is nothing wrong with this.

If I was scum I would be upset obviously but I would be dominating this town by now and universally townread. Not to brag but I've been nominated for my scum game etc and in all my scum games so far I've almost been totally townread (except for WHymafia LMAO). I'd also be towntelling and trying to gather townreads instead of actually solving the game like I'm doing now. I'd be fake inquisitive and my points and pushes would be less deep, but my tone would be godly and I would have fervent energy in pursuing my fake goal of pushing scum.

[Mulch]

On the other hand I like your response lmao and your reasons for scumreading me are valid.

VOTE: Alban

[Mulch]

But again, it's the dumbass post about saying IO was confirmed town that people are getting anxious at. I don't know what else I can say except it's true and I thought that saying it near my first post would make me more towny and transparent.

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: Llamafluff

I would justify this more if I could, but right now this is mostly a PoE read.

How do you TR Alban???

[WhyMafia]

And yeah, me likes Scorpius a bit more now
hmm
when in doubt, push alban!

[LlamaFluff]

First you all still post way too much. Lots of players on this site have day jobs and essentially have zero access for half the day. If it really needs to be said I will never post from about 7-6 PST because I have a desk job, I can at times read from work, but posting is one of those "extreme emergency only" things. I thought after we got rid of two major offenders for not realizing that during the first cycle it would help, apparently not.

More so though:

Vote Mulch

Few things basically

1) He is far more concerned about people thinking they are town than actually pushing for scum early. Especially after I call them one of my top picks for scum early in the day. Not getting lynched is the first priority of scum. Pushing for lynches is the first priority of town.

2) Massive hypocrisy throughout his posts. He says I am scum for hedging my bet (after essentially bringing my "partner" from no votes to a top wagon) but after trying to argue against players calling me town, he doesn't vote me and expresses frustration at people who are. He attacks alban for saying that the tone for Carcalilly was natural and its something that can be faked, and then start basing reads (town and scum) on others based of their tone.

Most of it lies with Io though. If he really thought he was replacing into a town slot that must have been a great reaction when he got that PM. First look at the Carcalilly and Io interactions. There is basically none but we get some gems such as Carcalilly calling Io town and then being unable to really provide a reason for it. This one is big though when you relate it to later posts

That self meta tho

You know, while I don't really like it when people self meta what's the point of this?
I don't really see it as a scum tell which is what I think you are implying because I know there are people out their who genuinely believe that giving self meta can clear them as town.

Remember self-meta, Carcalilly was big on that one.

When I'm scum I usually just focus on when someone mentions me or my scumpartner, and not care about the rest of the game. ^

self

Quick question - is Self-meta a scumtell to you?

I can see scum using it more than town.

That was something that happened earlier. So of course Io is going to say something about it, especially as they were fence sitting for a long time before deciding that the only way Carcalilly was scum was if Vedith was scum right? Yeah that point went completely ignored.

Io also essentially did the same thing to Carcalilly in reverse, just said "yeah they are town" early on, and then when the case started being pushed on them, just latched onto interactions between Carcalilly and Vedith as a reason to push on Vedith, but also as a reason to denounce the Carcalilly wagon outside of a scum flip from Vedith (obviously something they would know isn't happening).

There are also quite a few things that are very out of place when trying to defend Carcalilly from the mounting pressure such as:

voting MM4 can easily be chalked up to being flustered which I don't see as a tell for either town or scum. It's just really not a solid case to say that she is scum for not voting MM4 when making a push on him.

Very odd to not bring up Io was also voting MM here. Its also not really calling Carcalilly town, or anything they did as a towntell, just trying to debunk a reason.

Even more interesting is how Io jumped on Vedith. After basically the entire game of zero interaction, sans a joke comment, Vedith gets brought up late and is actually slightly defended

Either way there is no reason to vote him [Vedith] for an obvious fake claim.

[/quote]

In fact, during the defense of Carcalilly post, Io is the first time she at all shows a read on Vedith as scum, and that is just a sheep of some of my logic. Most of the talk regarding him is "Unless they are scum Carcalilly is town" talk. Even more when the one point they are heavily sheeping me on is "they only add clutter and don't contribute" it seems odd that it took both him and Carcalilly being under immense pressure before Io acted on it. If you want to defend a scum partner though by sacrificing town, its a good time to jump into the fray.

I completely understand frustration with having to deal with a player like him. That should be obvious from my posts alone, but after ignoring Vedith and implying he is at very worst a null read and pressure on him is bad for a majority of the game, only to suddenly turn it around when him and a scum player starts nearing a lynch reads like scum who woke up and realized their partner would be dead if they didn't do something soon, and saw the better option trying to jump on a somewhat similar wagon "low content player who reads scummy" for a mislynch hoping that we equate the same thing with town the next day.

Mulch has all out of whack priorities for town and is being hypocritical to boot. Carcalilly ignored Io basically the entire game. Io put Carcalilly as a town read early and then when pressure mounted suddenly jumped on Vedith using him to shield attacks on Carcalilly.

I like this vote.

Also self-meta is absolutely a scum tell. It is overwhelmingly easy to fake meta, even most weak players can do it and could easily pull some out in their favor for any sort of situation. If you are explaining theory as to why you do something, that's a different story. Saying "yeah I always do X", especially if that is something people tend to read as scum, is definitely a scum tell.

[WhyMafia]

OH FOR KRIFF SAKE I THOUGHT I HAD A HANDLE OF MULCH AND YOU JUST MURKED IT UP
Ok awaiting Mulch response

[WhyMafia]

Meditate on this, I must

[LlamaFluff]

OH FOR KRIFF SAKE I THOUGHT I HAD A HANDLE OF MULCH AND YOU JUST MURKED IT UP
Ok awaiting Mulch response

So did you have no Io read from day one?

[Steel]

VOTE: Llamafluff

I would justify this more if I could, but right now this is mostly a PoE read.

How do you TR Alban???

Please just take my word for it. I don't feel alban is the right direction, and I've been burned too many times for not listening to feelings like this.

I believe llama is deciding to scumread slots and then as an experienced player very easily casing them to serve that purpose, or in carcalilly's case distancing. I think there is more back and forth in organic reads, more of a struggle. Here on mulch/io, but on vedith especially yesterday I got that impression as well.

I feel like an experienced player like him playing scum can be very hard to see as to some extent catching scum requires them to make mistakes, but PoE is pushing me in this direction too even moreso since scorpious towntold.

[Mulch]

First you all still post way too much. Lots of players on this site have day jobs and essentially have zero access for half the day. If it really needs to be said I will never post from about 7-6 PST because I have a desk job, I can at times read from work, but posting is one of those "extreme emergency only" things. I thought after we got rid of two major offenders for not realizing that during the first cycle it would help, apparently not.

More so though:

Vote Mulch

Few things basically

1) He is far more concerned about people thinking they are town than actually pushing for scum early. Especially after I call them one of my top picks for scum early in the day. Not getting lynched is the first priority of scum. Pushing for lynches is the first priority of town.
2) Massive hypocrisy throughout his posts. He says I am scum for hedging my bet (after essentially bringing my "partner" from no votes to a top wagon) but after trying to argue against players calling me town, he doesn't vote me and expresses frustration at people who are. He attacks alban for saying that the tone for Carcalilly was natural and its something that can be faked, and then start basing reads (town and scum) on others based of their tone.

________________________________________[/b]_______________________________________________________________________________

Most of it lies with Io though. If he really thought he was replacing into a town slot that must have been a great reaction when he got that PM.

how are you this confident that I am scum? How percentage out of 100%? This is insane to say this, even I think that Alban has a chance to be town with being my top scumread

First look at the Carcalilly and Io interactions. There is basically none but we get some gems such as Carcalilly calling Io town and then being unable to really provide a reason for it. This one is big though when you relate it to later posts

That self meta tho

You know, while I don't really like it when people self meta what's the point of this?
I don't really see it as a scum tell which is what I think you are implying because I know there are people out their who genuinely believe that giving self meta can clear them as town.

Remember self-meta, Carcalilly was big on that one.

This is normal interaction, I don't see anything here

When I'm scum I usually just focus on when someone mentions me or my scumpartner, and not care about the rest of the game. ^

self

Quick question - is Self-meta a scumtell to you?

I can see scum using it more than town.

That was something that happened earlier. So of course Io is going to say something about it, especially as they were fence sitting for a long time before deciding that the only way Carcalilly was scum was if Vedith was scum right? Yeah that point went completely ignored.

Io also essentially did the same thing to Carcalilly in reverse, just said "yeah they are town" early on, and then when the case started being pushed on them, just latched onto interactions between Carcalilly and Vedith as a reason to push on Vedith, but also as a reason to denounce the Carcalilly wagon outside of a scum flip from Vedith (obviously something they would know isn't happening).

There are also quite a few things that are very out of place when trying to defend Carcalilly from the mounting pressure such as:

voting MM4 can easily be chalked up to being flustered which I don't see as a tell for either town or scum. It's just really not a solid case to say that she is scum for not voting MM4 when making a push on him.

Very odd to not bring up Io was also voting MM here. Its also not really calling Carcalilly town, or anything they did as a towntell, just trying to debunk a reason.

Even more interesting is how Io jumped on Vedith. After basically the entire game of zero interaction, sans a joke comment, Vedith gets brought up late and is actually slightly defended

Either way there is no reason to vote him [Vedith] for an obvious fake claim.

In fact, during the defense of Carcalilly post, Io is the first time she at all shows a read on Vedith as scum, and that is just a sheep of some of my logic. Most of the talk regarding him is "Unless they are scum Carcalilly is town" talk. Even more when the one point they are heavily sheeping me on is "they only add clutter and don't contribute" it seems odd that it took both him and Carcalilly being under immense pressure before Io acted on it. If you want to defend a scum partner though by sacrificing town, its a good time to jump into the fray.

I completely understand frustration with having to deal with a player like him. That should be obvious from my posts alone, but after ignoring Vedith and implying he is at very worst a null read and pressure on him is bad for a majority of the game, only to suddenly turn it around when him and a scum player starts nearing a lynch reads like scum who woke up and realized their partner would be dead if they didn't do something soon, and saw the better option trying to jump on a somewhat similar wagon "low content player who reads scummy" for a mislynch hoping that we equate the same thing with town the next day.

Mulch has all out of whack priorities for town and is being hypocritical to boot. Carcalilly ignored Io basically the entire game. Io put Carcalilly as a town read early and then when pressure mounted suddenly jumped on Vedith using him to shield attacks on Carcalilly.

I like this vote.

Also self-meta is absolutely a scum tell. It is overwhelmingly easy to fake meta, even most weak players can do it and could easily pull some out in their favor for any sort of situation. If you are explaining theory as to why you do something, that's a different story. Saying "yeah I always do X", especially if that is something people tend to read as scum, is definitely a scum tell.[/quote]

Wrong. I've been trying to find scum the entire game, and I also want to be considered town. You are wrong that only scum care about being townread,
town and scum care about being townread. 99% of my posts are trying to find scum; you don't need to focus on that singular post in the beginning. I have doubts your reading everything I'm saying because I post a lot and you dislike that style of play. The SCUM reaction to being called scum early is to ignore it and try to buddy the fuck up to you or call you out or shit. The TOWN reaction is to take offense and try to change it because they CARE. Scum try to seem like they don't care, town actually care. You NEED to realize this because you fucking made an entire wall post when I called you scum to defend as well, and once you have locked onto me as scum you haven't changed anything at all and havent commented on everything except to defend yourself from my attacks, which proves you care again. Man up and realize that your stereotypical scum tells are wrong.

___________________________________________________________________

I'm not saying you are scum; I'm saying your scummy. With one scum left in the game there are high odds that you aren't scum. You are being more fucking defensive about this than I have the entire game (to the first point). I

do not

think your the most likely scum, I think Alban/Awesome are much scummier than you. You are an idiot if you think I'm going to vote everyone who I scumread when there is ONE scum left and I am prioritizing who I think is scum more. In terms of the tone, I have

Not made one post based on tone except mario. Do NOT misrepresent me and try to attack me on that, because it's wrong, and this is the second time you've done this. READ what I write.

Tone is a fine reason to scumread someone but is also easily faked from scum. It's worth going into._

____________________________________________________________

In terms of the IO/Carca interactions, there are some valid points here. When I skimmed over it I saw some obvious pocketing instances from Carca onto IO, which I think you should look over. The one specific instances you brought up with self meta isn't actually something scummy imo. The vote hedging and choosing Vedith obviously looks scummy in hindsight but to be fair you did it too, and a lot of people did it, and all I can say is IO must have truly thought Vedith was more scummy than Carca.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Mulch has all out of whack priorities for town and is being hypocritical to boot. Carcalilly ignored Io basically the entire game. Io put Carcalilly as a town read early and then when pressure mounted suddenly jumped on Vedith using him to shield attacks on Carcalilly.

I like this vote.

Also self-meta is absolutely a scum tell. It is overwhelmingly easy to fake meta, even most weak players can do it and could easily pull some out in their favor for any sort of situation. If you are explaining theory as to why you do something, that's a different story. Saying "yeah I always do X", especially if that is something people tend to read as scum, is definitely a scum tell."

I don't have out of whack priorities, you have out of whack scumread techniques and I have NATURAL prioritizies, like I want to look like I am town. Every town wants that. YOU want that because you defend yourself. And self meta is not a scumtell. It just isn't.

[LlamaFluff]

I believe llama is deciding to scumread slots and then as an experienced player very easily casing them to serve that purpose, or in carcalilly's case distancing.

Why distance and put in efforts for it if I was scum and then not follow through? It seems pointless to bring a scum partner from no votes to exceedingly lynchable and then voting town over the wagon, because that results in people saying I am scum the next day.

Yeah I probably *could* come up with most players being scum if I really wanted to (which is why the alban push confuses me since I think that is almost the hardest case to force a scum read on), but I don't know how you want me to respond to something like that.

I think there is more back and forth in organic reads, more of a struggle. Here on mulch/io, but on vedith especially yesterday I got that impression as well.

Building reads is what cases are. I say player X is scum and give reasoning. They respond and I either adjust my read or continue to push if it doesn't change my mind. When you have people like Vedith who essentially refuse to respond, it doesn't change anything. I do not remotely take kindly to people who take joking around to the point where they are not playing the game.

Also please use the "preview" button people....

[Mulch]

Steel, I can see the points Llama is making coming from town as well as experienced scum. It's natural to be skeptical of some of the IO stuff, and I think there's a decent chance Llama is just being idiotic. I don't understand the Alban stuff, he hasn't been trying to sort at all and his posts today are extremely scummy, AND he's voting Whymafia for a crappy reason (and who is obvious town).

[Mulch]

I believe llama is deciding to scumread slots and then as an experienced player very easily casing them to serve that purpose, or in carcalilly's case distancing.

Why distance and put in efforts for it if I was scum and then not follow through? It seems pointless to bring a scum partner from no votes to exceedingly lynchable and then voting town over the wagon, because that results in people saying I am scum the next day.

Yeah I probably *could* come up with most players being scum if I really wanted to (which is why the alban push confuses me since I think that is almost the hardest case to force a scum read on), but I don't know how you want me to respond to something like that.

I think there is more back and forth in organic reads, more of a struggle. Here on mulch/io, but on vedith especially yesterday I got that impression as well.

Building reads is what cases are. I say player X is scum and give reasoning. They respond and I either adjust my read or continue to push if it doesn't change my mind. When you have people like Vedith who essentially refuse to respond, it doesn't change anything. I do not remotely take kindly to people who take joking around to the point where they are not playing the game.

Also please use the "preview" button people....

FYI that is not how real scumreads shoudl form, which is probably why you are failing in it so far. You should look at people and see scumyness and then scumread them, not scumread them and make cases afterwards...

[Mulch]

Next time break up the wall post, you had crap formatting with the quotes too and it was hard to follow yet I had to

[awesomeusername]

I was going to post but now I have to catch up again. :/

I am simultaneously pretty convinced by Llama's case, and agree with Steel that there's not enough back and forth in his reads. At this point I'm like 85% that one of Mulch and Llama is scum.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Awesome

[Mulch]

Town can be wrong and tunnel and be confirmation bias too, keep this in mind when scumread Llama. Those aren't good reasons to scumread them.

This is a blatant TvS misrepresentation between me and Llama, and it shows you aren't trying to sort with a shitton of more people in the game as well.

You had the hedging like Llama did but 1000X worse.

[awesomeusername]

Wait, do you think Llama's misguided town?