Night and Day Mafia (Game Over)

[79 CE]

So scum switch scum in and town out all the time therefore Titus is town but in your case it was a frame job. Again, this kind of selective interpretation of evidence is why I keep being unable to townread you; your stances are supported by spin. There has never been a wagon on your slot all game.

[Bulbazak]

Okay, then what happened with the Cirno/Kelvin switch? Kelvin ended up being roleblocker, and given that information, it was fairly easy to piece things together.

And yeah, it was a frame job on me. You want to know how I know? Because I'm freaking town! Duh!

[Bulbazak]

Look back at the end of day 2. Look how many "Bulba is scum" softs there are. I was on and pushed the Eddie lynch. The tides were turning against me end of d2. Put 2 and 2 together genius. Scum don't need wagons to be a thing to make a future lynch viable. They just have to pay freaking attention.

[79 CE]

Possible that it was a scum-scum; there have been two switches and you're behaving as though that provides conclusive evidence as to scum's agenda; it doesn't. You being town doesn't mean that you interpret the switch as a frame job if you're town; it means that you drop the spin and stop townreading Titus for bad reasons.

[79 CE]

Look back at the end of day 2. Look how many "Bulba is scum" softs there are. I was on and pushed the Eddie lynch. The tides were turning against me end of d2. Put 2 and 2 together genius. Scum don't need wagons to be a thing to make a future lynch viable. They just have to pay freaking attention.

You're going to have to show me what a Bulba is scum soft looks like; pretty sure I was the only one calling you scum in any significant manner - Aslan continued to scumread you after I dropped the read during the night. No one else in Dark PT has expressed any desire to lynch you.

[Bulbazak]

it means that you drop the spin and stop townreading Titus for bad reasons.

The Titus town read is because she's a freaking bodyguard that was moved out of the light PT. I mean, what the heck?

And I was townreading her before then. That action just made her conf. town, and it should have for everyone, but it seems that scum are bent on perpetuating the "Titus is scum" story.

[79 CE]

If you're townreading her by play then I'd be happy to talk about that; her response to the BTD townflip in Dark PT feels like scum and I scumread her for it - don't think that switching out a Bodyguard is at all +EV for scum; it makes some sense in scum!Math/town!Titus world but I have no intention of basing my read on a switch when her play speaks to me otherwise. Again, don't follow your reasoning on why removing the Bodyguard significantly weakens the protective bloc - scum didn't target the protective block with the kill so I don't see what you're basing this narrative on. Again, if scum's agenda is to switch out town how is their agenda also to be pushing Titus for scum while switching her out? There's a ton of logical dissonance in your stance here and I'd like you to show me your process a little more on this.

[Bulbazak]

How Titus approached her claim in the light PT points to her being town. Ginngie never claimed that she knew scum was in the PT because of a failed protection. She just said she had role related reasons for thinking there was scum in the PT. Titus was the first to say that there was a strongman, because she protected Snarky. She had no way of knowing that Ginngie also had the same information for the same reason. And there's no reason for scum Titus to out such information. It also doesn't make sense for scum Titus to remove herself from the Light PT, where she'd have power, to the Dark PT, where she wouldn't and where everyone HATED her. That's kinda self-defeating. Also, scum Titus would be interested in manipulating me if I was being moved into the Light PT. There's no reason for Titus as scum to move me over to light and then not use the night to pocket me. It makes zero sense to stay on the opposite side of the game as me and leave me alone with Gin, Creature, and the rest. That'd be her surrendering control.

[QuantumRadius]

yeah that Titus switch threw a fork in my read
which is great, there goes that tunnel I've been building all game...

well I guess creature is here

[79 CE]

It's not even close to unreasonable that scum!Titus would think on her feet and claim a weak protective role to make herself seem town once Gin made that claim; as scum she would know that a strongarm was used and Snarky was a claimed Cop so it's pretty obvious where town protection would be going; don't think that reasoning is good at all for town!Titus. The rest is pretty much WIFOM; I don't think Titus would've had much sway over anyone in Light PT after BTD flipping town so removing herself doesn't seem impossible to me; this also seems like pretty weak reasoning to me. Overall you've made some pretty heavy conjecture; I don't find any of it to particularly compelling.

[Bulbazak]

Except Gin never claimed JK or protective at that point. She just said she had information that pointed to scum in the PT. Titus was the first to claim protective AND said there was a strongman. That was not anticipating what Gin was about to say and getting ahead of it. That was a genuine claim.

[dramonic]

you were right about your wagon being an all town one.

...The fack are you talking about.
By your own admission, there is 2 scum on the Titus wagon.

[79 CE]

Except Gin never claimed JK or protective at that point. She just said she had information that pointed to scum in the PT. Titus was the first to claim protective AND said there was a strongman. That was not anticipating what Gin was about to say and getting ahead of it. That was a genuine claim.

Again, don't think it'd be very difficult for scum!Titus to put two and two together and jump at the possibility of Gin being protective having targeted Snarky. You're assuming that scum!Titus isn't capable of thinking through those hoops when as scum the information is essentially all there. Don't think this anything but basically null.

[Bulbazak]

Imagine that you have a result, but you play coy with it. Then someone else independently comes forward with the exact same result for the exact same reason, a reason you never gave out publicly. What would your read be on that person?

[Bulbazak]

This works for read reasoning also.

[79 CE]

Imagine that you have a result, but you play coy with it. Then someone else independently comes forward with the exact same result for the exact same reason, a reason you never gave out publicly. What would your read be on that person?

I don't have to imagine; I have the scenario in front me. I'm telling you that I don't think it is at all unreasonable that Titus, with full knowledge of scum actions, could've guessed that Gin was a protective and claimed the only possible protective role that would not garner a direct cc due to being potentially a duplicate for how useless it is.

[dramonic]

Maybe I was wrong about Bulb after all.
There's a limit to how [REDACTED] one can get.

[texcat]

Well done, A2!!!

@Titus
viewtopic.php?p=9316155#p9316155

Read Day 2.

it's quite the story.

scum never bussed, BTD6 obvious counterwagon.

you were right about your wagon being an all town one.

Part of me can't tell if Math is a dueling scum wagon or counter.

Vedith/texcat/Aronis don't look good sitting on BTD for so long.

What? I never voted BTD. I parked on Aronis, switched briefly to TWIE when he entered, and then voted Titus.

viewtopic.php?p=9320727#p9320727

viewtopic.php?p=9322718#p9322718

In an Aronis!scum, CE!town world, this looks hella bad for texcat and Math.

Huh? And I think this looks really bad for you, intentionally misreading my votes to throw shade.

The shot only confirmed 2 town: A2 and Quantum. Gin and Titus were confirmed yesterday by the strongman results. It's obvious reading the light PT that their results are legit. Creature is the other protective. And as for me, most of the light PT's faith is coming from stuff said in the light PT. My role should seal the deal, and I plan on full claiming in the PT once Math is dead and no one can listen in.

Yeah, I'm still thinking that Titus could easily be scum. But Dramonic, 79CE, and me are all stuck in the dark and haven't read the light PT where all the claiming and gambit planning happened.

You're making a pretty good case on Math tho.

[dramonic]

actually Im probably also wrong on Ginngie for role reasons.
Namely that she's claiming my role.

[MathBlade]

Why wouldn't you just redirect someone from dark pt? That claimakes no fucking sense.

My compulsive is NOT standard. I have to target in light other than myself.

[texcat]

Imagine that you have a result, but you play coy with it. Then someone else independently comes forward with the exact same result for the exact same reason, a reason you never gave out publicly. What would your read be on that person?

Imagine that you are the scum strongman that killed Snarky.... Doesn't that fit with the Titus scenario as well?

[Bulbazak]

Imagine that you have a result, but you play coy with it. Then someone else independently comes forward with the exact same result for the exact same reason, a reason you never gave out publicly. What would your read be on that person?

I don't have to imagine; I have the scenario in front me. I'm telling you that I don't think it is at all unreasonable that Titus, with full knowledge of scum actions, could've guessed that Gin was a protective and claimed the only possible protective role that would not garner a direct cc due to being potentially a duplicate for how useless it is.

TITUS HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING GIN WAS A PROTECTIVE! Gin could have very easily have been an investigative given how she softed. Titus came forward as a protective with strongman information before it was known in any capacity that Gin was protective. That's not playing ahead of the curve. That's being freaking psychic.

P-edit: Except at the time there was no reason to out that.

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector

Redirector works by switching the target of a player. It doesn't make everyone targeting that player target another player. That's a deflector.

P-edit: The switch won't happen until dawn. We'll have an entire night phase without scum. The switch can only happen if the two sides are even, which they aren't right now.

Correct

I didn't mess up shit.

Snarky is a lurksac who sometimes forgets to act. I figured since I had to do something that redirect was best. Since Snarky died I had no evidence of whether I was blocked. And since I get no feedback I don't know.

[79 CE]

Ever heard of moonlogic?

[MathBlade]

Okay Math, why were you so eager to jump in front of the bullet for CE?

1) I was eager to answer the question because it directly relates to the problems we are having now. Mafia isn't a game of mechanics to crack; it's a game of lynching scum. Mechanics help up and to a point. There is clearly evidenced something going on in light. But either Ginngie is telling the truth and tried to save Snarky or she is scum so right now scum can kill rather easily. It may be much more worth it to scum to break town blocks rather than PRs. Something is going on and I want to know what but people are running off half cocked and running gambits makes it nigh on impossible.

2) The bakery has enough to keep with demand stop ordering more desserts.

Here seriously.