Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Grendel]

i don't leave until tomorrow morning at 5 am so probably can see what you have to say. Though if it is a post explaining why they aren't scum i'll be honest and probably not put much weight in it. I don't think anything can change my read of that slot

This puts me in a bad position because I want us to be on the same page, but I don't think I have the persuasive strength to move you off your personal opinions. I don't want to put a lot of effort into this if all its going to do is make you want to do is leave the game. Even if I disagree with your conclusions I am listening to what you have to say! Can you consider moving your vote elsewhere for today?

Perhaps getting some distance from the game will help open up communication when you get back.

don't really care. if people are going to low blow discredit me and say i am using this as a strategy they can piss off and the mod can replace me.

I believe you are feeling the feelings you feel, and moreover I don't want you to sub out.

Anyways, I like playing with people I have previous experience with.

[Grendel]

i didn't realize robb deathtunnels stupidly in most games. after skimming a couple of his other games and rereading him here he might be town. i didn't see any of his scum games in my skim. if someone actually told me this was a regular occurrence.... lol I am disappointed in yall.

that said, he's refusing to interact or acknowledge me. i try to big the biggerperson and he replies with basically the ewuivalent of shut up. its very disappointing because most people I try and change my read on are more mature and if he's going to continue to act like this it's probably just scum not wanting to change a read. could just be town who can't control emotions but idk. right now id say I have robb 60/40 town and 80/20 odds on him replying this saying I'm still scum or not replying.

VOTE: sd

sd has pinged me a fair bit. right now I'm waffling on voting Korts, ginngie, monkey and sd. ginngie is pushing garbage and has a weird ass overconfident attitude but I can see that as personality and I don't want to get in a shouting match with them rn. similarly, I have some scum vibes on korts, but I've mostly just seen town reads expressed and additionally I imagine trying to lynch korts will be an ordeal I don't have the time for before deadline. maybe next day if my read gets stronger. for now I also see town notes but id say he's like 60/40 scum. don't like the lamisty bitching about posts in the slightest either. monkey is probably the one Im closest to voting after sd (along with massive). considering I'm voting sd without any reasoning given I'm curios how this'll go.

I'll post more tonight or tomorrow depending how late I get off tonight. this is a quick flphone post equivalent for post count


also pedit: sorry rc. I'll pm.

I mentioned that Rob is notoriously stubborn, and always assumes lies=scum. Though I didn't @ you spefically so you may have missed it.

VOTE: SunlitDiamond I am also supportive of this lynch.

Are you still town reading Assemble? I saw that you were when I was catching up and I don't understand why?

@GINGIE

[quote="In post 402
*@Gingie*

Also I'm pretty sure I told everyone about me being IC day 3 or no?

If this is a gambit you need to say so now.[/quote]

Did you miss this Gingie?

---
I will look at Tchill now.

Tomorrow I'll look at Monkey, and Korts.

[Grendel]

Yeah so far my thoughts are there's been way too much attention brought on to Percy for a simple rvs vote. Then I believe it seemed like korts and monkey were looking into it a little too much. Specifically korts with his accusation of Percy using wifom. Percy got called out for a BS reason. She then tried to provide information that wasn't there to appease those who were giving her attention. Of course that's gonna come off as scummy especially if your thought process is biased.

I don't like that most of the inferred reads here have to do with "x players were taking RVS too seriously." Moving from random posting to joke posting is how you move the gamestate along. I think scum reading korts/money for that reason is bad, and seeing how Tchill had a real hand in those points is also bad. Ie Scum projecting what they are subconsciously guilty of on other players. Unfortently my "scum projection" tell hasn't been tested enough for me to know its accuracy. It could be calked up to a "Gut feel" instead.

Anycase, Tchill supported a game phase that he later disparages as a "something you can't take seriously" was worth a chuckle.

If I cared about how I was viewed or was too worried about each move why would I move my vote around like I have?

Alright... Why am I the best lynch? Give me some questions I can answer. Anybody. I'll do my best to answer sufficiently.

Umm... Who pointed out my scummy habits?

These posts are incredibly egocentric. This unnatural worry about how his slot is perceived, while not self aware that its getting him into lynch bait territory. Example being that a player that clearly understands what there are doing is unpopular, but keeps on doing it means that that action isn't a reliable indication to their alignment. Here Tchill is aware that he is scum read, but doesn't truly grasp why. which is scummy.

Yeah people accuse me of pushing the LHF when in all honesty that's been me the whole game. I'd give a serious look into low content posters who have pushed me.

I'm not crazy about Tchill telling other people to look into his wason to sort the low content posters instead of doing it himself. However he moved on to look at some of them going off later votes. Though content rich cases, or attempts at real interactions would have been better then "vote and wait for reaction".

--
Not quoting all his read transitions but they are incredibly fluid. Which is surprising for newb scum. Even if the reads are kinda wonky and hard to follow.
--

I think that comment on assemble is valid. I haven't played too much with Ginngie. I feel like the scum read I'm getting from her is a mixture of lack of scum hunting and the fact I pushed her. From what I can tell if you push Ginngie she tunnels back. Limited experience with her though.

He isn't reading the game too closely. :/

---

Overall... I think I want more interaction with Tchill. (which may not happen before EoD unfortunately). I really hated the constent egocentric play, but I can't tell it its scum muddying the water as a defense, or if its a newb town habit. As much as it annoys me the read fiudlity really isn't something I'd expect from newbscum. If he could get his total thought processes down on paper the I think it would help me, and others sort him.

I think that Tchill has said and done some bad things, but I don't think he is irredeemably scummy. More importantly I think I can sort him with time. Therefore I won't support his lynch today.

[Grendel]

@Tchill

Stop being bad

Why? You get to see who reads into every slot versus the people that only push the easy scum read day 1 just to get by. I've got a lot of scummy tendencies because I really don't care how I'm viewed if I'm town I care about scum hunting and lynching scum. It's funny because the real problem with my scum game is I DO care how I'm seen, obviously, and that's such a change of pace for me it usually gets me lynched pretty quickly because I'm not playing comfortably.

It doesn't matter how much you say that you don't care how you are read. The constant --poking players that are scum reading you-- shows that you value how you are read. To add to that I think your self preservative tendencies this have been a problem. If you are town you need to stop playing like, “ItsNotMe ItsNotMe ItsNotMe ItsNotMe ItsNotMe,” if you could play and pretend that you’re the top town read then maybe you would become what you envision eh?

Or not lol. But At least you can say you tried!

Can you walk me through how you developed your top scum reads over time?

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on SunlitDimanad.

[nancy]

@Gin I was under the impression you were referring to Ari when you made the comment about a day 3 IC? Wrt 393 I agree that the votes haven't been good from that slot; your wagon analysis there reads like you're assuming your scumreads are correct - how does that scenario change if one of them is town / they're not buds?

Robbvna is more of a guy feel for his hard tunnel on rvs and trying to get reads and reactions based on his hard tunnel. As for monkey he sits null for me. I'm not sure why he'd question a town read on himself on day 1. That just seems odd to me.

Think it's a pretty basic thing to be a little paranoid about someone townreading you for reasons you don't really understand; don't think this is good reasoning for a scumread; what's your take on the rest of his content? A little worried that you don't seem to have any other reads than the ones you've given here to be honest; in 1920 you seemed to have something to say about pretty much everyone - what's different here?

@Mod extend deadline please.

And you overshot.

Hi?

If we can get an extension I'll probably just take today off; migraine isn't gone and the screen is a mess of distorted color to my brain right now so I don't really want to have to grind the catchup if I don't have to.

[Ginngie]

I don't assume my reads are wrong until the mod tells me they're wrong.

Even then, mods are sods

[RadiantCowbells]

If you want an extension then PM me.

[Sunlit Diamond]

Dear game: I have a full time job and I'm a single parent and I'm going to school half time. I may have bitten off more than I can chew with the games I am in right now, but I am going to try really hard to make it work because I actually do want to be here. That said, I am working through a reread with full analysis, but I couldn't get it done today.

Some general thoughts before I go to bed:

I unvoted Robb and believe that he is not scum because his responses comes off as real to me, right down to the inconsistencies in what he says. So does TChill, albeit a bit clunky and egotistical on that side. My general experience has been that when I listen to that feeling, I am right. When I am wrong, it quickly becomes apparent and I can shift.

Nancy might be bamboozling me with a lot of text, but so far I like what she has to say.

Eddie looks like a deliberate shit-stirrer, I just haven't decided if that's his natural inclination or because he's scum. I really didn't like his comment about me and Robb flipping red, it rang ten kinds of not-ok bells in my head. I can't figure out why Ginngie is teaming him with TChill, that is just weird.

I do not like Vecna's 425, it is super LAMIST to me. If he is scum, then I am betting that one of the three people in his triangle are buddies with him.

And, speaking of which: I haven't liked anything monkey has said so far. I could lynch that, but want to finish my analysis before voting to make sure I'm not just being an ass.

[Vecna]

Theres a good reason for my 425 Sunlit diamond. In my last game with Tchill (Boonskies something something game) - there was a moment where 3 players, including Tchill started live talking for literally 10 pages. It resulted in 3 very solid townreads on all 3 slots, and helped town win that game very easily after that. Nothing lamist about it, just wanting to see if Tchill can generate that kind of genuine flow of thought again this game, since I do believe itll make him easy to read.

[Vecna]

VOTE: HumanEatingMonkey

Having said that, I feel this is a pretty alright vote/lynch for today that also quite a bunch of people have expressed interest in. Lets see if theyre willing to back up those words.

[Korts]

Yesterday's big post didn't happen, I pissed my time away. I'm gonna jump into this right now. Until then, I'm unvoting. Open mind and all that.

VOTE: Unvote

[Korts]

Okay, well, I don't really feel like doing a huge recap, so here are just my reads, from most likely town to most likely scum.

Spoiler: Obv-Town to Townish

nancy

- I feel like nancy has been completely transparent and pro-town. I really don't know what to highlight here.

Dark Horse

- a step below nancy, he has not been anywhere near as engaged, but whenever he posts I find myself agreeing with everything he says.

massive

- this is a town read that I am very uncertain about, but considering my other reads, and the fact that there really isn't anything to suspect massive for, I cannot justify a lower position on the ladder. The evolution of his Tchill read in particular resonates with me, and his conclusion that we're barking up the wrong tree had me thinking for a bit. Then again, with massive's unassailable performance of towniness in mind, I'm still interested in a Tchill flip - if massive is scum, we're probably fucked, unless Tchill is scum too.

Ginggie

- I go back and forth, sometimes reading her tounge-in-cheek one-liner style as a good mask for her actual intentions, but then she also seems genuinely invested in scumhunting. I don't know what to take of the 393 claim, but that is neither here nor there at this point. I considered putting her lower because of Tchill's weird interactions with her, but I find everyone below this point scummier for more germane reasons.

Spoiler: Middle-of-the-Road

Grendel

- I dunno. massive had a decent point against Kaboose (not following up on pressure) which I thought would be interesting, but looking at it in context now it's just asking questions (from not just massive) as he is catching up, so uh, nope. I think Grendel has done a solid job of getting up to gear, but I'm not sure what direction he's going in. I know I don't like his final question to Ginggie in 402.

humaneatingmonkey

- I feel like he didn't come out looking particularly well from our early tiff, but then again, I wasn't really scumhunting at that point so much as generating content. Since then, however, he has made a few good posts in between active lurking due to work. I don't really have enough to judge him by, so he's right in the middle of the road for now.

Robbnva

- Oh Robb. Really the only thing about Robb in this game is Percy/Eddie. I'm reading Robb vs Percy/Eddie as TvT, but then I really don't understand how town deathtunnels so hard, or how Eddie lost his second chance in Robb's eyes after replacing in - this warrants a separate reread that I know I'm going to hate myself for promising.

Eddie Cane

- again, same as above, I read along with most of the Robb vs Eddie argument thinking it's TvT, but especially with Eddie's later reactions, I kind of have the feeling that I just thought that so that I wouldn't have to think about it. I say all of this without having reread them, though. I guess I will have to, but not this time around.

Spoiler: Scummy to Obv-Scum

Sunlit Diamond

- this is admittedly a gut scum read. Actually reading back, the only thing I can pinpoint as dumb is his "so good it's scummy" reaction to my Tchill case, which I guess may be personal, but also makes me want to pursue Tchill more, and see if there is a connection.

Vecna

- Ari has not been useful to the game, let alone the town, so I hesitate to judge this slot by his actions. Then again, nancy seemed convinced that Ari was playing to his scum meta. I also agree with massive's heebies regarding the "not saying you are scum" comment. I really don't see why humaneatingmonkey was the vote for him, either. I don't see that wagon taking off, nor has he made any case for it (in his initial reads, he only mentions a minor feeling, nothing substantial).

Tchill

- I gotta say, the response to my case made me a bit uncertain despite the way I doubled down in public. Then again, I have applied the same lack of care for my own slot both as scum and town before, so the genuineness is NAI for me. Other than that, see my case for why I still think he's scum; since then, he's been noticeably more careful IMO, and now I'm all the more convinced.

Assemblerotws

- Wow. Talk about flying under the radar. Lynch All Lurkers, anyone?

So. The three lynches I am willing to go for today are Assemble, Tchill, and Vecna. I'm going back to the Tchill wagon for now, but if anyone wants to help one of the others take off, I'm all for it.

VOTE: Tchill

[massive]

I'll be curious what Eddie thinks of Grendel backing him up on voting Sunlit Diamond.

[Vecna]

Massive, how do you feel about that strong townread that Korts just outted on your slot?

Do you feel your play so far has been deserving of such a read?

[Vecna]

Korts, I would like some more clarifications from you;

What posts in particular from Dark horse were you agreeing with so strongly? His posts all have felt ratherr like stating the obvious, and as things that scum could also superficially state. Id like you to pay some special attention to Dark Horse read's on the Eddie slot here, since it feels youre rather contradicting yourself stating that you agree with his posts, while at the same time youre reading the Robb vs Eddie interactions completely different from Dark Horse.

why are you so fascinated with me trying to get a wagon on monkey going? You were stating distrust on the slot yourself, and your recent post isnt taking that away completely. How is it so unclear to you why im voting the slot, while apparently you've felt the same level of suspicion? One could think you were distancing yourself from the slot and are now coming back on that since you dont want to start bussing it quite this early?

[Vecna]

VOTE: Tchill

I want to see this flip now. Either im completely wrong and Tchill is scum, or theres something fishy going on with Kort, monkey and massive.

[Tchill13]

I'm town vigilante.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isn't that a bit too early? UNVOTE:

[Ginngie]

I mean unannounced L-1

By Vecna

[Tchill13]

I knew I was close and town would have raged had I not so...

[Tchill13]

I feel like korts is definitely town. Vecna may not be that seems a little too opportunistic for me.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: vecna

This also is influenced by the scum read of the slot he replaced into.

[Ginngie]

Shoot RC tonight

[Tchill13]

I was actually flip flopping on that. No ik who I'm shooting already.

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: Tchill

Well that explains the slight differences with our last game in playstyle I guess.