Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[Heartless]

Vote Count 1.1

Marluxia [1] - Vexen
Lexaeus [1] - Larxene
Xigbar [1] - Luxord
Luxord [1] - Roxas
Roxas [2] - Xigbar, Zexion

Not Voting: Xemnas, Xaldin, Saïx, Axel, Demyx, Marluxia, Lexaeus

7 to lynch
Deadline: (expired on 2017-08-31 18:46:21).[/color]

[X Luxord]

VOTE: 6 Zex
As someone who has no flavor knowledge, all of the names are frustratingly similar.

[VI Zexion]

You seem to be talking more about Laxeus yet voting Roxas, Pray tell me young one, why do you supposed a traitor would ask to be investigated ? What is the scum motivation you are seeing ?

Same question goes to you as well xigbar.

I'm not really interested in the claim, it's null as far as I'm concerned. If he's scum then scum presumably have some way to manipulate investigative actions which would be supported by there already being an invest-immune claim on the board. My scumreads on the two slots are more or less equal, there's already a vote on Roxas so my vote there is more useful.

Going to explain that vote Luxord? What's your Roxas read?

[V Lexaeus]

I am sorting people by play.

It isn't the existence of negative utility Town roles that made me drop that push on Larxene. Hell, I had a whole two paragraphs written up about how this wasn't equivalent to a Miller, and she could still be scum.
I deleted that and unvoted because while writing that post I realized: Scum with a role that screws with investigation wants to actually use it. By claiming, she now does Not get to use it. I expressed this before my unvote.

As for Roxas... He's a special case. In flavor, he's the key (literally) to the Organization's entire scheme until the Oblivion Squad screws it up vying for power, and he runs away.

Alignments do not necessarily match flavor (except for Xemnas I suppose), but it does seem like the role assignments are based on it. So when Roxas claims a super powerful role that benefits immensely from being cop cleared? I believe him, and don't want to waste the effort pushing him with a cop result incoming, and especially don't want to risk a mislynch without getting that sorted.

[X Luxord]

There's not too much to explain. I'm not coming in with any real scumreads so I'm just poking and prodding at people I consider voteable. Crux of it is really that I just don't agree with your reads. If ever I earnestly push you, I'd explain it.

As for 13 Roxas, the less conviction you actually have in your scumread, the more favorably I see you. I don't actually think there's any real urgency in sorting him nor is there any real reason to scumread him. With the claim, I'm unwilling to consider 13 as a D1 lynch. (Of course, if he doesn't produce results that are unambiguously favorable we look more critically.)

[X Luxord]

Unrelated: playing with MafTigers is almost unbearable, but not unbearable enough for me to quit my commitment to playing the whole game on it.

[VI Zexion]

Well that makes a hell of a lot more sense than how you expressed that take before. Thank you.

@Lexaeus

[VI Zexion]

As for 13 Roxas, the less conviction you actually have in your scumread, the more favorably I see you. I don't actually think there's any real urgency in sorting him nor is there any real reason to scumread him. With the claim, I'm unwilling to consider 13 as a D1 lynch.

I find it pretty sketchy that your read on me is based on my read on another slot. I think his entrance lacked thought. None of the reads he's expressed in 32 mean or do anything. Maybe there's a whole lot of precognition going on there and Roxas is making a play to see how the board responds to his reads but all I have right now is a pretty baseless post calling someone "obviously town" and someone else "just scum" (quote marks for precision not for mockery) on page 2 which are ridiculous positions to hold this early. There are no interactions with other slots. It's a flat entry and I nullread the claim, if he plays like scum then I will push for his lynch, if he plays like town then I won't, I'm not going to avoid pushing him out of fear.

[X Luxord]

Once again, I don't really have that much of a read on you in the first place.
Nothing much else to say about that, I guess I'd rather 13 respond.

[VI Zexion]

Nothing else you want to talk about?

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: Luxord

You keep saying your votes have no meaning and no reasoning, allegedly to get readable reactions.

But if you continually announce that your votes are meaningless, how can you expect meaningful responses?

[X Luxord]

...isn't that the whole point of RVS?

In any case, I'm not just tempering my votes beforehand. I vote somewhere, people ask me why I'm voting there, I respond in kind.
I'd say that I've had some relatively meaningful conversation given this stage in the game.

[V Lexaeus]

I disagree.

While of course I don't expect a full readslist or anything yet, it seems like everyone who's posted so far has had something significant to contribute. Except you. Aside from you not wanting to lynch Roxas, your ISO is the equivalent of ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

You can't generate the reactions RVS (which I thought we were past anyway) is supposed to if you don't provoke them

[VII Saix]

Hi...Tomorrow busy. Will read and post over the weekend.

[X Luxord]

You're right, my ISO has been basically all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
I can copy all of my thoughts on everyone here, but my heart really isn't into anything regarding scumhunting yet. Like, I won't be proactive now but I think it can be assumed that I will be eventually? I really don't think there are any motivations to be found by my lack of productivity.

Here's a direct (reformatted from Excel) copy of my notes, with one omission. (Only noting this so if I want to bring it up later, people know.)

2 Xigbar:

Reaction to a relatively calm voteswitch by me in RVS. Weird "if you were scum" Q to 12 in P26. Other than this, gut strongly says town mindset-- but based on not much concrete.

4 Vexen:

Flavor entrance, very standard, empty ISO, voteable.

5 Lexaeus:

Pushes 12 for inv-immune. Probably just in a frivolous/reac-test way. I tend towards townreading. (Okay, nvm. It seemed genuine.) P53 seems pretty town at first glance, feeling strongly as towniest post in the game.

6 Zexion:

Lots of content. Pushes 5 for noisemaking which at face value makes no real sense but is a believable push for town to make. Votes 13 for bad reasons. Overall P47 makes me feel just a little bit weird, entertaining possible narrative of scum with strong presence? Unsure how much conviction he actually has (the less the better, honestly). P56 is towny.

12 Larxene:

Claiming inv-immune. Not impressive but claim tends towards town.

13 Roxas:

Asks to be checked, says will claim if needed. Opens with scumread me and townread 12.

[XI Marluxia]

I'm pretty skeptical in general about people who ask to be cop cleared via role and typically find that there's some misguided thought leading there. Not really interested in spending an investigation on Roxas.

[XI Marluxia]

As for Roxas... He's a special case. In flavor, he's the key (literally) to the Organization's entire scheme until the Oblivion Squad screws it up vying for power, and he runs away.

Roles might have flavor justification but that doesn't mean that it will be good flavor justification and it doesn't mean that there will be a correlation between how town someone looks and how powerful their role is.

[XI Marluxia]

Luxord, if you didn't have anything that you wanted to say yet, why didn't you just say you didn't have anything to say?

[XIII Roxas]

Unless you supposed traitors have some sort of godfather which would be most unifitting for Roxas in all honesty.

In ancient days years past, my role would actually have ties to a godfather. However, under modern definitions my role is unambiguously not a godfather. It's much closer to an innocent child, but not to the point where claiming it alone would make me conftown. I should however clarify there are two halves to my role. One gives me town credit. The other gives me incentive to be conftown by investigation.

I say we probably shouldn't lynch him today.

Off of role alone I would likely be townread but I have been mislynched while carrying a role similar to what I have so I want to leave no room for doubt this time around.

Both posts felt played up. Larxene is definitely not obvtown, Luxord is definitely not obvscum.

Oh? Do tell how Larxene isn't obvtown then. That, or define what the term obvtown means. For me, it means obviously town. As in, a read which is so obvious it needs no explanation. Do you feel a Larxene townread needs explanation? I do not. Because Larxene is obvtown.

Why's that?

For comments like this

Also, is it just me or is the whole secret alt thing making a disproportionate amount of people use good grammar?

Rather than anything useful. 12 was a poor RVS. 18 was a random switch, with unattached fluff. 22 shows lack of critical thought. 35 is a poor defense of a stance: it being the RVS is no justification for there being no reasoning.

[XIII Roxas]

As for Roxas... He's a special case. In flavor, he's the key (literally) to the Organization's entire scheme until the Oblivion Squad screws it up vying for power, and he runs away.

Alignments do not necessarily match flavor (except for Xemnas I suppose), but it does seem like the role assignments are based on it. So when Roxas claims a super powerful role that benefits immensely from being cop cleared? I believe him, and don't want to waste the effort pushing him with a cop result incoming, and especially don't want to risk a mislynch without getting that sorted.

I must admit a lack of flavor knowledge aside from generally being aware of Roxas being Sora's opposite and I believe him going from Zero to Hero. I did get the impression my role was one of the stronger ones in the game, however, it requires specific circumstances in order to work.

all I have right now is a pretty baseless post calling someone "obviously town" and someone else "just scum" (quote marks for precision not for mockery) on page 2 which are ridiculous positions to hold this early.

How so? Larxene is in fact obviously town. Luxord is just scum. Those were the most apt descriptions to use. The terms were accurate. And, counter-question.

There are no interactions with other slots.

Why didn't you interact with my slot? You didn't bother to ask me why I held those stances. I am perfectly capable of explaining them (and in the case of Luxord I am actively doing so), yet you went in and did the very thing you were accusing me of.

VOTE: 6 Zex
As someone who has no flavor knowledge, all of the names are frustratingly similar.

This is a continued instance of not actually providing game content.

When I said Luxord was "just scum", I meant it. Because this is not town.

[X Luxord]

You are not only incorrect on the low-level aspect of your read, but also incorrect on the high-level aspect.
I have provided game content, and even if I hadn't, lack of productivity is not a good reason to scumread someone.

[X Luxord]

Luxord, if you didn't have anything that you wanted to say yet, why didn't you just say you didn't have anything to say?

I don't know what this is in regards to.

As for Roxas, here's a full description my thought process.

My P12 RVS is empty and unfounded, that is true. I saw the claim and saw no reason to respond to it.

I don't actually recall what exactly made me switch to Xigbar in 18, but it was likely because I thought it was okay to let Lexaeus stay busy with prodding at Larxene's claim, and vote someone who didn't seem as engaged. Yes, I didn't have any particular reason for voting Xigbar.

I am generally more of a passive player. I don't think this is a bad thing when the game is moving fine on its own. I think it's fine for me to move and act at my own pace in this environment. I suppose you disagree, and that's why you think I'm "just scum."

There was something that made me mild-to-moderate townread Xigbar, so I decided to switch off to someone I didn't townread. So in that sense, yes-- Zexion is my strongest scumread. But you can't reasonably expect me to defend it with the same conviction as a read that has been built over the span of many days in a longer game. Most of my reasonings and thoughts have already been articulated.

[IV Vexen]

You're right, my ISO has been basically all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
I can copy all of my thoughts on everyone here, but my heart really isn't into anything regarding scumhunting yet. Like, I won't be proactive now but I think it can be assumed that I will be eventually? I really don't think there are any motivations to be found by my lack of productivity.

Here's a direct (reformatted from Excel) copy of my notes, with one omission. (Only noting this so if I want to bring it up later, people know.)

2 Xigbar:

Reaction to a relatively calm voteswitch by me in RVS. Weird "if you were scum" Q to

12

in P26. Other than this, gut strongly says town mindset-- but based on not much concrete.

4 Vexen:

Flavor entrance, very standard, empty ISO, voteable.

5 Lexaeus:

Pushes

12

for inv-immune. Probably just in a frivolous/reac-test way. I tend towards townreading. (Okay, nvm. It seemed genuine.) P53 seems pretty town at first glance, feeling strongly as towniest post in the game.

6 Zexion:

Lots of content. Pushes

5

for noisemaking which at face value makes no real sense but is a believable push for town to make. Votes

13

for bad reasons. Overall P47 makes me feel just a little bit weird, entertaining possible narrative of scum with strong presence? Unsure how much conviction he actually has (the less the better, honestly). P56 is towny.

12 Larxene:

Claiming inv-immune. Not impressive but claim tends towards town.

13 Roxas:

Asks to be checked, says will claim if needed. Opens with scumread me and townread

12

.

Dude Im begging you, please stop doing this. Just use the name, its going to make it easier on everyone involved.

Personally Im not a big fan of telling the investigative roles where to target in the beginning of the game. Not nearly enough knowledge of the game yet to start playing with power roles like that.

[V Lexaeus]

Relevant flavor overview:
Since multiple people have expressed a lack of flavor knowledge, I'll do my best to give a general overview of what I think will be relevant to the game. Also, expect spoilers for the Kingdom Hearts series.

Spoiler: spoilered for your convenience

Organization XIII is a group of thirteen folks called Nobodies, the hollow shells of those whose hearts have been taken by darkness. Heart meaning soul in KH canon, not the blood-pumping organ. These particular 13 Nobodies were able to not only maintain a physical form, but an approximation of their personalities and memories from their lives, though all emotions are merely emulated. They remember what it was like to have a heart, and seek to recover theirs from the Heartless, beings of pure darkness that steal hearts, created when someone gives into the darkness inside them.

Each member of Organization XIII is given a new name, created by scrambling up their original name and tossing an X in there somewhere, which is why all the names seem similar. The number indicates both the order in which they joined the Organization, and their rank within it, Xemnas at the top, as leader and founder, and Roxas at the bottom as a fresh recruit.

In order to retrieve their lost hearts, they plan to free a shit load of hearts from the Heartless, so they will gather together and create... Kingdom Hearts. Never really clear on what exactly Kingdom Hearts IS, but it's something like the heart of the entire universe/multiverse/whateververse. The catch is that hearts can only be freed by slaying Heartless with a Keyblade, which only one person (at the time, and that they know of) is able to wield: series protagonist, Sora. So they set in motion a scheme to manipulate pretty much everything everywhere and turn Sora into a Heartless, thereby creating a Nobody capable of wielding the Keyblade for them. That's Roxas.

Meanwhile, Sora, who was able to escape the Darkness himself with The Power of Friendship, is guided to Castle Oblivion, where a few Organization members are off working on a sort of backup plan, in case Roxas gets uppity. They're supposed to sorta harvest Sora's memories so they can stuff them into an even emptier shell than a regular Nobody, a simple puppet who would have no true free will, but still be able to swing around a Keyblade. Except these folks start getting... ideas. Rebellious ideas. Larxene and Marluxia figure if they can just get Sora himself to obey them by messing up his memories, they could seize power over Kingdom Hearts themselves, without any need for Xemnas or Roxas or puppet Sora, and can lead the Organization themselves. Meanwhile, Lexaeus( That's me! ), Vexen, and Zexion discover this and start trying to use Riku, Sora's BFF/Archrival/Vessel of a whole bunch of Darkness, to oppose memory manipulated Sora.

Axel is also dispatched to Castle Oblivion, as a sort of undercover cop, sent by Xemnas to identify and eliminate any traitors. So he goes and joins up with Marluxianand Larxene, gaining their trust by killing Vexen, then completely sabotaging their plan after they tell him about it. Sora winds up killing Larxene and Marluxia, while Riku kills Lexaeus and Zexion. All traitors dead, and his job complete Axel leaves the castle, Roxas finds out about a bunch of this stuff, understandably feels used and betrayed, and abandons the Organization, setting up KH2, which has nothing of use to this game.

So, if this game matched canon alignments, Larxene and Marluxia would be the scumteam, but since there is a third scum, that is clearly not the case. Roles however, do seem to be influenced. Larxene's secret treachery being reflected by an ability that hides from the fuzz. I don't think it's enough to try and guess roles based on names, but it can probably be used to at least partially verify claims.

[V Lexaeus]

Dude Im begging you, please stop doing this. Just use the name, its going to make it easier on everyone involved.

Seconded