Mini Normal 1929 - Game Over

[Mulch]

Guys

[Mulch]

Llama

[Mulch]

This game

[MarioManiac4]

I mean tbh I think Whymaf's D3 is sus-worthy on its own and he had like five posts.
He basically sat back and watched Alban get lynched. He had his vote on a watcher claim and all he had to say was "this may be scum!watcher"

and "damn" to consider the self-vote just isn't good enough. if you're unsure, you unvote.

i'm getting more confident in this now. iirc he's also been shadethrowing me for a while.

[MarioManiac4]

Llama says in that post that they are 40% sure Alban is scum and is calling me scummy for hammering him. They even say their gut says Alban is scum. Let alone we were all in consensus agreement that he was scum, and even awesome gave me the OK to hammer. Yet I'm scummy for hammering?

the game was literally broken with the watcher claim and everyone just like ignored it.
my instinct was to call that out but i thought it out and decided it wasn't scummy just suboptimal (although the chances of alban!scum were pretty high anyway so i guess i kinda understand where it comes from)

[MarioManiac4]

Ugh I'm getting colder feet on Llama. Mario has good tone ... but not much else.
@AUN can you do an analysis on Mario? It seems like we're just ignoring that slot.

like this isn't genuine
it's not like we haven't already had analysis on me, we have

it's posturing

[LlamaFluff]

At times I hate this game.

unvote

I just need to think for a second. At this point would still vote WM though.

@mod

- Can we get the deadline extended by about five hours? You are basically making it so anyone with a job in PST (aka me) is unable to post for about the last 18 hours of the game day, effectively shortening the day by one full day for at least 20% of the game.

Llama says in that post that they are 40% sure Alban is scum and is calling me scummy for hammering him. They even say their gut says Alban is scum. Let alone we were all in consensus agreement that he was scum, and even awesome gave me the OK to hammer. Yet I'm scummy for hammering?

Granted the power that Scorp had actually invalidated everything, so technically unless scum got lynched alban was a good thing by accident, but if alban was scum he is forced to take one player with him to F3 who he will be going 1v1 against with all other PRs and roles flipped. Yes I thought he was probably scum, but at the same time, that is amazingly strong and if he was town, you essentially force scum to kill him or correctly predict his actions for the rest of the game. That was what I was hung up on. Unlike Scorp who had tailored his claim to match the flipped role, his stuck out as different and very strong, so I was suspect of it. Free town in F3 though. I love that.

But @Llama: Are you really making this decision based off the weird night kills? I don't think I like that. I feel like night kills are usually WIFOM-y and weird, and not really a valid reason to lynch one person over another. Is that really the only reason you think Mulch is less scummy? And can you explain why you're so confident in your NKA?

The traitor things really screwed up a lot of my stuff. I don't know how much scum knows, and had been operating based on just two scum this entire game because I am VT and only saw one player (alban) after the second day who was acting like they might be a PR. More credence to only two scum. I still don't see him leaving Scorp alive though unless he knew there was a traitor and correctly read him as such.

Maybe its less strong than I think. He is still my #2 pick, but a few of the kills just don't make much sense. For instance I have ZERO clue how you are alive if scum knew there was a traitor. If they didn't kill makes sense, but in that case it should have been the N2 kill.

I just had WM as a general town read and no problem going along with that one for the first day. When starting to pay more attention to things after flips and claims started clearing things up, it didn't make as much sense.

I also really don't buy Carcalilly parks their vote on a partner with some reasoning, forgets about it, and then when pressured on it starts balking and saying its a random vote. I think that is scum realizing their vote is bad, and not scum trying to back out of a bus. That whole interaction reads as scum panicking, which doesn't really happened if they get called out with their vote in the correct place. Sure it *could* be Mario, but I don't really buy it.

[Ircher]

​​

Day 4 VC #5

Awesomeusername (0) -
WhyMafia (1) (L-2) - MarioManiac4 (1724)
Mulch (0) -
MarioManiac4 (1) (L-2) - WhyMafia (1723)
LlamaFluff (1) (L-2) - Mulch (1689)
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (2) - Awesomeusername, LlamaFluff (1731)

Lynch Threshold

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline

Day 4 will end by August 16, 2017 9:15 PM EDT or in (expired on 2017-08-16 21:15:00).

Moderator Notes

Have fun!
Deadline extended by 3 hours and 45 minutes.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 4

WhyMafia: LlamaFluff (1636) --> MarioManiac4 (1723)
Mulch: Awesomeusername (1609) --> (Null) (1610) --> LlamaFluff (1646) --> (Null) (1658) --> LlamaFluff (1689)
MarioManiac4: WhyMafia (1724)
LlamaFluff: WhyMafia (1633) --> (Null) (1731)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Day 3

WhyMafia: Alban (1553)
Mulch: Scorpious (1468) --> Alban (1557) --> (Null) (1564) --> Alban (1573) --> (Null) (1582) --> Alban (

1595*

)

Scorpious

: WhyMafia (1556) --> Alban (1579)

Alban

: WhyMafia (1552) --> Alban (1592)
MarioManiac4: Scorpious (1465) --> (Null) (1551)

Day 2

Awesomeusername: WhyMafia (1427) --> (Null) (1435) --> No Lynch (1436)
WhyMafia: Alban (867) --> Awesomeusername (1191) --> Alban (1223) --> Scorpious (1323) --> No Lynch (

1437*

)

Steel

: LlamaFluff (955) --> Scorpious (1325) --> (Null) (1410) --> Alban (1426)
Mulch: Alban (918) --> Scorpious (945) --> Alban (957) --> Awesomeusername (972) --> Alban (1006) --> LlamaFluff (1090) ==> LlamaFluff (1098) --> Alban (1113) --> LlamaFluff (1154) --> Alban (1156) --> Scorpious (1200) --> LlamaFluff (1267) --> Scorpious (1268) --> (Null) (1389) --> No Lynch (1432)

Scorpious

: Alban (1229) --> (Null) (1313) --> WhyMafia (1340) --> No Lynch (1434)

Alban

: WhyMafia (869)
MarioManiac4: Awesomeusername (1006) --> Scorpious (1244)
LlamaFluff: Mulch (961) --> No Lynch (1431)

Day 1

Awesomeusername: Scorpious (73) --> I am Innocent (205) --> (Null) (387) --> Vedith (496) --> (Null) (565) --> LlamaFluff (586) --> (Null) (597)

Vedith

: Carcalilly (88) --> Tchill13 (135) --> Steel (193) --> WhyMafia (455) --> Scorpious (459) --> Carcalilly (580) -->

Vedith (755)*

Lil Uzi Vert

(replaced by WhyMafia)

: MarioManiac4 (192) --> Steel (256)
WhyMafia

(replaced Lil Uzi Vert)

: Alban (460) --> Carcalilly (571) --> Vedith (588) --> Carcalilly (591) --> Vedith (727)

Steel

: No Lynch (127) ==> No Lynch (182) --> Lil Uzi Vert (254) --> (Null) (272) --> Carcalilly (279) --> Scorpious (419) --> Vedith (442) --> (Null) (469) --> Vedith (545) --> LlamaFluff (537) --> Carcalilly (570)
Io: Steel (67) --> Io (132) --> (Null) (164) --> I am Innocent (204) --> MarioManiac4 (365) --> (Null) (428) --> Vedith (618) --> (Null) (724)

Scorpious

: Lil Uzi Vert (99) --> (Null) (482) --> Vedith (587)

Alban

: Vedith (104)

Tchill13

: Carcalilly (129) --> (Null) (147) --> Vedith (231) --> Scorpious (437) --> (Null) (475) --> Carcalilly (592)

Carcalilly

: MarioManiac4 (78) --> Vedith (90) --> Lil Uzi Vert (102) ==> Lil Uzi Vert (120) --> Io (133) --> Tchill13 (138) --> MarioManiac4 (170) --> Vedith (298) --> MarioManiac4 (377) --> Alban (602) --> Vedith (695)
MarioManiac4: Carcalilly (66) --> (Null) (157) --> Tchill13 (174) --> Scorpious (176) --> Steel (189) --> (Null) (289) --> MarioManiac4 (340) --> Vedith (345) --> Scorpious (405)
I am Innocent (

replaced by LlamaFluff

): Carcalilly (69)
LlamaFluff (

replaced I am Innocent

): Vedith (532)

Dawn

Awesomeusername: MarioManiac4 (7)

Vedith

: Tchill13 (13) --> Scorpious (24)

Tchill13

: MarioManiac4 (49)

Carcalilly

: Vedith (15) --> MarioManiac4 (19) --> Scorpious (30) --> MarioManiac4 (58)
MarioManiac4: Vedith (4) --> Carcalilly (50)

[Mulch]

AwesomeUsername:

Spoiler:

There is a possibility that he knew scorpious was the traitor and killed him just to play this mindfuck on us. But I heavily doubt it. I think that he is a LyLo POSSIBILITY and not somebody to lynch today. One thing that is slightly creeping me out is his response to it- that he townreads me for my paranoia- which I'm like 99% is the response if I'm correct lol. But yeah, not an option for today.

WhyMafia:

Spoiler:

Here's the thing. WhyMafia has a distinctive playstyle when he is town or scum that is easy to pick up. He is an atrocious scum player and likes to avoid the thread as scum, and he lacks confidence. I just played a game with him as scum, and his tone is drastically different. It also dosen't make sense for WhyMafia to abruptly change from scumreading Llama to Mario when it would draw Mario's eire. LIke, scum don't back down like that, especially because he had my support 100% and probably awesomeusername. It just dosen't make sense. On the other hand, he keeps copying my arguements for things, like my 60-30-10 and the fact Mario's tone is good despite never playing with him?, isn't normally suspicious as he is of me most games (but maybe he's just godlike at reading me cause he read me scum as scum and now town as town lol), he keeps trying to get me to "join" him and have me buddy him (see this), and the "damn" post still makes no sense to me and indicates he knew Alban was town.

Mario:

Spoiler:

The vote on WhyMafia after immediately getting voted raises some red flags for me. Mario is a clear and levelheaded player and he indicated he was leaning voting WhyMafia but only did when he had a perfect "excuse" for doing it. Obviously it's natural for town to OMGUS to but the situation he did it in is highly suspicous. His tone has been great but also he's been extremely detatched, which is totally weird and actually different than town!mario that I've seen and played with? I don't really think it's too allignment indicative but like... it's freaky. I think his day 1 shit is horrible, he scumread Carca but never pursued them. He even voted them eary which is something scum like to do a lot. He also has some reads that seem fabricated- like his WhyMafia read in [pos1451]here[/post]. It's not the fact that he contradicted it later but the fact that it's weird because I don't think he has as much experience with WhyMafia as me. I also don't know why he townread me early in the game? Dunno. Despite all this I still am finding Mario to be guttown and do think if Mario was scum he would be more engaged. I think his tone is playing a huge part to my guttown read, like he just does not give one shit about anything.

LLama:

Spoiler:

I'm trying to look at Llama from all points of view, but it's hard. Mainly because of that bullshit push on me earlier in the game, which makes a shitton of more sense to me now that they had a partner to support them. I mean, yeah, town can have confirmation bias. But it was just so WRONG. And manipulative. I forget who said it, I think Steel, but he said I had anger issues and Llama was manipulative. Yeah, I had anger issues BEACUSE Llama was manipulative. It was just horrible in so many ways but made no sense being the last scum. Until now. I'm also genuinely scumreading the fact he "knew" there were 2 scum all game and critized me when I said maybe there are 3? I think this could easily be a way to "prove" himself later in the game AND setup for a surprise MyLo. Like, 3 scum made sense with Carca goon, Llama's faith in 2 made no sense. Llama's townread on Mario is BULLSHIT. They've maintained that Mario is town the ENTIRE game based on ONE connection day 1? This is BIZZARE with the amout of supposed effort Llama puts into things. It reeks of TMI Mario town. Like, one day one connection, and Mario is town FOREVER? It makes no sense. I think Llama has been doing a shit ton of LAMIST posts (look at me I'm so town). Mainly the "twilight" post. I literally don't see where they could think AUN hammered. I don't see anything close to a vote from AUN AND Aun had been cautious all game. It reads as a desparate scum ploy and not genuine at all. And it worked a little lol. There's also more LAMIST posts like where they ask the mod for clarifiations and even to an extent the "plan" they made. The plan in retrospect makes perfect sense for a surprise LyLo. You confirm AUN town, kill him, then you literally have 2 scum in 5 and AUN is dead. The "plan" dosen't benefit town at all. Besides this their scumread on me for "antagonizing" him into self voting is WRONG in many ways. I called him scum. It was clear I didn't want him to self vote. After he self voted and lied in massclaim despite being a possible lynch, almost everyone had a consensus he had to go. Yet I'm scummy for voting him and hammering, even after AUN gave me the all clear? Let alone the fucking heding and weird twist. They again put so much effort and thought and yet somehow on a whim don't scumread me anymore and instead scumread WhyMafia based on nightkill analysis- something super shallow and something that dosen't make sense. And when they do that they say that I'm scummy. Classic voting one and then shading the other. I'm presuming if they got WhyMafia lynched they would be like "oh, Mulch etc" and take up their attack on me tomorrow. Like, if you don't read this the things to take away are the weird ass agendaey posts and the fake reads, on WhyMafia and me here and Mario early game. Llama is scum.

Conclusion:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Llama

[MarioManiac4]

if llama was establishing two scum as a ploy for towncred why hasn't he used it to gain towncred

[MarioManiac4]

i was already leaning towards voting whymafia

he came in and voted me so i was just like "ok cool we can do this"

[MarioManiac4]

also mulch why do i feel like you're keeping your options open for d5?

[MarioManiac4]

I think scum backing down there is something that's very plausible. I had made it clear I was leaning scum on Whymafia. So if we went ahead with lynching Llama, he would have to try and 180 on me in LYLO or kill me. Which is probably a lot harder than just trying to lynch me today (whether that succeeds or doesn't.)

[MarioManiac4]

res

VOTE: Io

Take that!
I've now invalidated whatever this vote count is going to be.

VOTE: io

Self voting is bad

Mulch town.

[WhyMafia]

I shall make a Mario case later today

[awesomeusername]

/prod dodge

Haven't had time to read what I wanted to. Going to be thinking about Mario a little bit, although I kinda agree with him that WM's tone is sketchy in 1717. I think Scorpious' interactions with WM make him a bad lynch though.

I don't like Llama pushing on the alban lynch when he didn't try to stop it either. His different reactions to the weak doctor claim and the watcher claim kinda bug me.

[WhyMafia]

WhyMafia Presents ... HIS ULTRA RARE WALL POST ... DUHN DUHN DUHN

[/align]

Part 1

I am against the Scorpious lynch.

Ahem. This is quite strange of an opener. However, Scorpious flipped traitor, and mafia didn't know he was the traitor from their role PM, so nothing suspicious here. But wait ...

Me and you.

Okay. If I gave you a full gun, and said don't kill us buddy! Who would you kill right now as scum?

awesomeusername.

Me and you.

Okay. If I gave you a full gun, and said don't kill us buddy! Who would you kill right now as scum?

awesomeusername.

Why don't you ever want to work with me?!

I think we can get Scorpious lynched tbh.

Where did this come from??? He goes from not supporting a Scorpious lynch ... to supporting an Awesome lynch ... to stating he could push a Scorpious lynch?? This is coming with an interaction with Vedith .... who is the person who you'd like on their good side, I would say, as being pushed by him is quite weird. This also fits in if Mario was scum, as he knows Vedith is town, and wouldn't want Vedith to push him early game. Ok!

VOTE: mario

For making things difficult for vedith.

Making things difficult for vedith is my job

This comment seems to me like a way to counter buddying accusations and just float by. Like clearly he didn't make things hard for Vedith if he agreed that he could get a Scorpious lynch .. quite easily through. Although this could come from town, as there's really no right way to respond to this. But because of the previous interactions, I'm leaning this to come from a scum mentality.

anyone up for a game of shitposting?

While Mario is a shitposter, I don't see why someone as town would say this. Sure, it makes things lighthearted .. but it also helps the scum float by.

Carca, how many scum do you think they have?
Think they have any particular roles?

Uhhh I'm going to take a lucky guess and say 3.

we could always talk about how this is trying too hard to look uninformed

This seems like a really weak attempt at bussing. It's reasoning is too flimsy to catch on very quickly, but associates Mario with pushing Carc.

VOTE: Scorpious
What a substantially insignificant question.

This was aimed towards Scorpious. It's blatant shading, considering at that point, Scorpious had done more to scum hunt than Mario, and Mario wouldn't know Scorpious is scum. He's chainsawing onto Scorpious .. and seems to be lightly attempting to pocket Alban.

You're asking a player if they will votepark which is like the weirdest and least impactful question ever. I have absolutely no actual good reads at the moment so you get a vote. Enjoy.

But any attempt to stimulate discussion assists town in formulating reads. Mario seems to be trying to put that down, while at the same time, claiming he doesn't have solid reads, without actually doing anything to make reads. Mario isn't providing something for Scorpious to counter. It's just shading.

VOTE: Steel
Your No-Lynch gimmick is mediocre and your insistence on continuing it when everyone ignores it is bad.

...? I love how Mario is forming reads off what others do .... maybe they do this so people like Mario can get reads! Another mediocre reason to push someone despite not actually doing anything to keep discussion going.

Feel free to do so. It gives us an extra Town Power Role.

More banter with Vedith, to get Vedith to sheep him .. hmm

I was wondering how long it would take people to start voting steel. Wouldn't scum try to blend in more though?

Do you think that scum always try to blend in?

Once again, this comment goes nowhere except for the fact that it casts shade. Mario hasn't said how this is scum indicative yet

If you don't lean anything on him, why did you need to comment on people voting him?

Once again, trying to limit discussion. It promotes an atmosphere of "I am going to SR you if you're not certain of something, and it naturally slows down discussion and cause doubt. Mario should know that this isn't scum indicative, and that people can have opinions of someone's vote, without having a tangible opinion on the person being voted. It's called voting for BS reasons.

what is important about the selfmeta?

Soft defends Alban

ok, were you hoping to achieve anything by pointing it out?

Sounds like SvS because once again, it doesn't really do much to push someone, and just puts a little shade.

but like do you think self-meta will come exclusively from scum here?

Continues to soft defend Alban, but at the same time not push Carca. He's making her claim of self-meta being doubtful yucky, which makes Mario look like he's trying to convince Carca that Alban is town, and it looks like he's making Carca vs Alban to be TvT. It also makes Mario look good, but I feel like at this point, Mario and Carca realized that Alban can be mis-lynch bait later in the game, and they could get town cred to soft defending him. This whole interaction with Carc/Alban/Mario looks forced on behalf of Carc and Mario.

darn you foiling my attempts to get scumreads

This seems tonally fake

i mean that's totally ignoring context but ok

Once again soft defends Vedith and discredits TChill

I feel like it's a really awkward reaction test though.
Like, Steel votes no lynch, sure, w/e.
But when he does it again, that's just trying to force a reaction when none exists. It's not going with the actual flow of reactions, it's like "HI GUYS DID YOU REMEMBER I EXIST YEAH I'M GOING TO DO THIS REACTION TEST YAY PLEASE RESPOND SO I CAN GET THE TOWNCREDIT"

Yet Mario didn't have reads at that point. Isn't doing what Steel did helpful in forming reads and causing debate? Mario seems to be grasping at straws to keep his vote worthwhile.

we could get some votes flowing on one player???? steel????

Forcing the direction of the game. If Mario's town, he himself said he's not fully confident in his reads. Therefore, why should the game be pushed in that direction?

don't really think you've done anything noteworthy and neither has anyone else, mostly i think voting or at least the suggestion of such may jumpstart the game

I feel like Mario knew Steel was mis-lynch bait at that point in the game, and was hoping Steel made some sort of "slip" while being pressured.

When I'm scum I usually just focus on when someone mentions me or my scumpartner, and not care about the rest of the game. ^

when i'm scum i just do random shit hardcore push a townie occasionally etc

They happen to post their self-metas under no obligation to at the same time

UNVOTE:
steel feels town to me carca's posting is a stretch but not sure if it's scum-indicative rn
don't have any scumreads so i'm just going to not use my vote for now

???? I have no idea how town!Mario would say this. A) He continues to lightly bus Carc without actually making a half-decent push on her, or even following up on the lead when he has no scum reads. Then because he doesn't have scum reads, he decides not to use his vote ... despite the fact that he had no reason then to vote Steel. In fact, he's trying to exit the conversation! He uses the flimsy Steel comment to start a half-wagon on Steel even though he never gave how any of it is scum-indicative. Then, when he's a little more certain on Carc, but not positive on it, he decides not to pursue it??? This seems like bussing.

so what are you going to do about that read?

pedit:

This seems like another fake comment

I KNOW IT

and if you're town, how do you know
DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNN

Bah. I originally on my skim through, tonally read Mario as town. BUT THIS SEEMS FORCED ;-;

But my role pm says Carcalilly is scum!

Desperado: Carcalilly

You can't get me if I get you first!

This seems like partner interaction

and .... wait ..what? My wall ended?? NEVER FEAR I SHALL CONTINUE WHEN I HAVE THE TIME!

5b. Do not attempt to use BBCode to hide messages.

This post has been edited accordingly.
~Ircher

[WhyMafia]

TL;DR
He seems to be buddying Vedith & more subtly Alban
His interactions with Carc are weird, especially if you factor in the self-meta & Steel

[MarioManiac4]

Oh holy mother of forced casing.

[WhyMafia]

Why does everyone say my walls are forced :/
You know what's funny? Scorpius said the same thing

[MarioManiac4]

Maybe it's because your cases are forced.

[WhyMafia]

Then why the hell would I have NK'ed Scorpious

[MarioManiac4]

... Because he was scumreading you so you didn't think he was your Traitor? There's no good reason for ANYONE to kill Scorpious. NKA doesn't work.

[WhyMafia]

It makes sense for you to kill him xd
I knew he was scum and I was right. If I SR him, as scum, doesn't that you know .... mean that I would think he's my traitor
I love how Mario just chooses to say my wall is forced, and completely ignores my accusations

[MarioManiac4]

What if you didn't think he was scum and were fabricating it because you're scum? Shocker

Why should I bother responding to it? You're literally just painting all of my posts as scummy and I'm not going to bother responding to that. You literally went and digged up a case for my RVS posts.

If you want a real response, make a real case.