Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[VNB National Plan]

spiffeh needs to stop arguing with people, 1054 is a good explanation about why he does that (in regards to his consistency) and response to cary seems legitimate. Do you have any thoughts about camn not related to her interactions with you? Genuine question that, we'd like to hear them. We like Spiffeh's interactions with PV and asking them for clearer reads. (Also 920 he valididated that Bella tries to get him lynched as scum because he is ez, we enjoy the independant verification because Ginngie seemed really surprised when we said this)

Here is my lynch-pool though. For today.

VNB National Plan
Polar Vortex
MaxwellPuckett
Spiffeh, obv.

Town, probably town, probably scum, probably town? At least you changed mind onto Ahsoka..


omg ahsoka's response to pressure and votes is pointless "it is not the town." We agree that meta tells are not necessary to see Ahsoka as the scums.

If imperium isn't town after 1047 I will eat my hat. Bella says "This is my Day 1 Town game ie a bit shit. The only person who can confirm that is Heartless but they should -really- be able to confirm it." (she is explaining her game to me as FEELING at people which is GROSS) We like answering your questions, they get our thoughts in order, we just think you're obvtown! So keep doing what you're doing. (Bella still fondly remembers the bees game where you replaced into her slot and read her SOUL)
Re our read on noticemesempai, she hasn't been here while we've been catching up to have a strong read on them. We're quite baffled by how she gets her reads, they might not be scum motivated but that's hard to say when we have no idea how she got where she was.

we very much like the post about gender politics on a personal level

Bella is basically in love with Cary and wants to marry all her posts.
Ow okay okay we like how thurough she is in all her posts and humongeous town read from us with hearts.

[VNB National Plan]

(VNB National Plan) <null zone, but rly want to be town

I can be your townread baby (being everyone's null read until Day 3 is literally my life though)

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I know 5 pages isn't a "post explosion", but it's still a lot for the time I have. Tomorrow I'll be on the road for the whole day with a brand new phone so if I can get used to the touch screen instead of a keyboard I'll use that on the part of the drive where my wife is driving. And on a related not,

V/LA through Sunday

As soon as I get out of work at 7am, I'm leaving to go to a NASCAR race.

~ Have fun!!! ~

[Prism]

Concur with Heartless's #916 on Polar.

-My issue wasn't with Prism being drunk (seriously, wtf). It was Prism saying (paraphrased) "Hey I'm drunk so talk to me because I'll be sloppy as scum or genuine as town". It feels like an attempt to get people to talk and get town reads because they talked to "genuine town drunk Prism".

You're acting like getting people to talk and interact with me is a bad thing. It

wasn't

me saying "I'm drunk so townread me", but a "Interact with me and draw your own conclusions." I never exaggerated how drunk I was, which you acknowledged yourself. You're acting like I was masterminding some deceptive masterstroke relating to how drunk I would pretend to be, how much I actually was, people's perceptions, and deftly navigating the inbetween to my advantage akin to conducting a fine surgery.

All I was saying is that if I'm scum, I'm not going to get tigheter/sharper play when I'm drunk, so interact with me and see what you get. That's just a plain fact.

Why are you still voting me 45 pages in?

Spoiler: Imperium Response

First off, really like VNB's #345. Don't agree with all of the reads but some strike me as more skepticism than malice (ex. mastina) while others seem likely. I also just honestly buy the phone story. Conveniently sums up my feelings on Polar-ton of questions, range of usefulness in their answers, near 0 use for reading Polar.

Can't really say that I understand where you're coming from here - seemed like a pretty standard list to me. I believe the phone story, sure (odd thing to lie about), but I don't think it's an unreasonable way for those two to talk about the game as scum. As for the "more skepticism than malice" point, what do you mean by that? What would make their reads look more malicious? The read on NMS seemed simplistic almost to the point of being meaningless; I guess I could be being overly harsh here, but I didn't really parse anything beyond "I don't like that she townread a person who hasn't done much and Spiffeh wagon moved past!" - did you? I can buy that the Polar read is genuine (and slight town points for not jumping on an easy target), but I don't think that it's an observation that scum would have difficulty making.

I don't hard townread VNB yet, just one post I liked. First to address the phone thing-I specifically believe the "and this is what I said" part, ie. how the convo went. The Polar read specifically is the one I liked the most,
so I think you answered some of this yourself. As far as "skepticism vs. malice" goes, malice is basically being used interchangeably with scum intent. A better restatement is "I'm more inclined to believe their skepticism is legitimate for now, I see no reason to think it's fake nor get the immediate feeling it is"

I don't think this frustration is necessarily alignment indicative - it's reasonable that he'd be frustrated by the situation as either alignment and thus respond in kind. I think he'd probably be less likely to be as aggressive towards us as he was in places like the "Tammy is scum for not posting in 36 hours" - think town is significantly more likely to jump the gun as scum there since assuming that he'd score a mislynch on us is a pretty weird assumption to make and 1v1ing with someone you're not really likely to beat is an awkward as shit situation in general.

I agree and don't think the frustration is necessarily AI-I just didn't see the jump to him for it that a lot of people made, and couldn't really find any other reason to scumread him at the time.

[Prism]

Shit I forgot to close that spoiler.

nancy, darling, lend me a hand?

~ Done! <3 ~

[Prism]

Okay, fully caught up.

Spiffeh is right that camn's overblowing their "Waiting around" bit. That said, a lot of their defense strikes me as lackluster. I concur with Nacho that the frustration itself is likely NAI, and I'm having trouble getting anything out of them that I feel isn't plausible as scum. Interactions with Imperium make sense in general but are hardly inspiring. Highlighted some things yesterday that felt off to me.

camn in general has lived up to her signature pretty well I think. Resistance to engaging with Spiffeh read poorly to me, and their reads are remarkably nontransparent (ex. how that lynch pool came out. Do they townread me, for instance, being off of it? Why? How about Ahsoka?*) There's nothing about camn that strikes me as being certainly town.

*She might have addressed Ahsoka actually I should go back, but you get the idea.

I'm pretty sure Imperium is hard town. I'm going to challenge myself to actually explain that at a later date, but something about Nacho in particular feels a lot better than what I've seen from him as scum. Probably some combination of better questions and followup/incorporations, really need to dig to the root of that.

About to read the posts highlighted by Heartless as containing the bulk of the non-meta Ahsoka case.

[Prism]

Yeah not sold on this Ahsoka wagon. Spiffeh's right in that Ahsoka's #698 leaves a lot to be desired, but that and activity are all I see. Worth pressuring and getting in the game but not currently down to lynch.

Fleshing out my thoughts a bit on Carya, I've liked their depth and reads and interactions loads more originally (another read I need to set more in concrete terms w/ references at some point), and in particular I'm finding their explanations behind their drawings relateable and easy to follow. I think what bothers me is that the drawings make a great gimmick, but I feel as though their use as a tool has to be somewhat disingenuous. The explanations or the feelings don't arise from the drawing, but is instead pre-existing, making the drawings no more difficult to fake than the originating thoughts.

It is certainly true that focusing on one element of your thought process for a bit helps you expound on it, so I can see it from a valuable tool from that perspective, but that too seems trivial to overcome provided the foundation is plausibly faked.

Still think they're town, just wanted to put down my thoughts on the drawings themselves (And they are wonderful and much welcomed, regardless of Cary's alignment, so thanks for them Cary-I'm again honored by the analogy to still lake water)

[Heartless]

Yeah not sold on this Ahsoka wagon. Spiffeh's right in that Ahsoka's #698 leaves a lot to be desired, but that and activity are all I see. Worth pressuring and getting in the game but not currently down to lynch.

nope

nope

nope

nope

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

ok i'm gonna nip this in the bud RIGHT FUCKING HERE bc i can already see it being oversimplified and dismissed on the oversimplification

this is NOT strictly a lurker wagon or a lurker case. again, "lurking" is NOT the entirety of the case. it's the SPECIFIC type of weakness ashoka has shown: throwing out half assed reads and promises to develop them later and then never delivering. not just that, what spiffeh saw in 698 is clear evidence ashoka is at least following the thread but declined to do anything of substance in favor of tossing a bunch of words into a response to camn's hydra rant. that suggests scum posting just to fill space, not lazy lurker town because those'll just not post at all and eventually flake out.

it's not a lurker wagon

it's not a "pressure" wagon

it's a wagon on scum

[Prism]

And if you have the meta reason to believe that, sure, but I do not.

I would vote to pressure, but that's not what this wagon is, I agree-and I see no reason to vote to lynch.

[Heartless]

notice how i did NOT mention meta once

[MaxwellPuckett]

replacing out. I suck, sorry nancy

~ You most certainly do not suck!!! Sorry to see you go. <3 ~

[Heartless]

ok camn i'm getting to u i just have to go tickle the inside of my colon w a spatula for a while brb

[Prism]

I concur on 698 being bad, just not enough to get me to vote it over Max (unsure as to who my next runnerup would be atm)

You (or at least one of your heads) has made it a point to avoid meta, but it has repeatedly and publicly factored into your read on them. I looked at the posts your hydra highlighted as serving as good standalones, and you got my conclusion.

[Heartless]

yeah well your conclusion sucks

[Imperium]

I'm caught up I'm caught up I'm caught up!

I will do most of my wording tomorrow because I still have some other goals to accomplish in the next four hours and my main was get this damn game read. I also need to reread through vnb and polar vortex to disentangle them from one another. I did start distinguishing them, but a couple pages back I read Nacho's response to VNB and was like why did they say we're not interacting with them that's scummy then realized that it was polar that asked me to respond to them not VNB. There is literally no reason for me to have them as confused as I have them because polar are people from my homesite and has snowstorm and they have a polar bear, so I don't know what my problem is and it's not a huge tangle, but I still want to separate that. I also need to look back at a couple pages where I mixed up posts between mastina, prism and kmd (this came from reading while I was exhausted and was falling asleep while reading, not because I'm just mistaking these three for each other.)

Polar - I'll be happy to interact with you and now that I'm caught up I'll be able to do that more easily and in real time; just probably not today as I'm trying to get a few other things done in the next few hours. We are town though, so I think that will be easy to identify soon enough .

Nacho has a weird work shift right now and is still almost 20 pages behind so I'll not be able to touch base with him solidly about the game until tomorrow afternoon/evening.

I have two hard town reads that I feel really good about. Gin and Heartless. I have other people that I like too but one of the terrible side effects of how much I've drawn scum the past year or so is that it's made me feel less confident about my town reads, and teasing out them will take a little bit more of the time that I'm allotting myself for this game right now.

I've already talked about my town read on Gin, and I don't think that anyone disagrees with my heartless read except for mastina and I'm not really sure of why she's got that read. Mastina thinks that TTH is more comfortable as scum and therefore she would take the head in a scum game, so TTH not being here at the beginning of the game and antihero not being sarcastic or whatever was a sign of them being scum. Except TTH is not comfortable as scum. She is not confident in her scum game thinks she lacks the ability to use logic as well as she does in her town read. So, I'm not sure where mastina thought differently (though maybe from team mafia? I think antihero said something in one game about how if they had drawn scum TTH would have taken it over antihero. I'm not sure if she read that game though.) That's really here nor there though, neither one of them are playing their scum game.

Okay I will talk about more people tomorrow, but time's up for now!

[Prism]

yeah well your conclusion sucks

You both have mentioned Ahsoka's main as a reinforcement of the scumread, significantly so. You don't want to talk about the meta because you know utilizing it in debate requires outing Ahsoka, okay, that's fine.

Sticking your head in the sand and expecting me to gather the same level of certainty, without it, on my end though is irrational.

[Heartless]

i've got my own issues w camn that i'd like to talk to her about. will put together a post after work

ok so first circling back to this

camn dismisses me instead of acknowledging what I'm trying to say

Spiff- you haven't come at me from an honest place all game. Since before I even posted it was all camnisscumcamnisscum. Why should I bother engaging with YOU?

The idea that

I

am somehow tunnel-persecuting

you

is laughable.

your comeback to spiffeh accusing you of not engaging him and tunneling is to accuse him of doing it first and idk where that came from but it's not from what's gone on in this game?

I predict the scum will be camn, NoticeMeSenpai, and Prism

VOTE: camn

i have a secret scumread. you wanna guess who it is?

camn?

you cited all these posts as proof he's tunneling you but post 31+35 look like rvs screwing around to me and 136 seems more like randomly farting out a name than a serious attempt to paint you as scummy. is there some other context (a previous game) where something happened between you+spiffeh that carried over here or what?

next up, this lynch pool

I forgot what they were.

Here is my lynch-pool though. For today.

VNB National Plan
Polar Vortex
MaxwellPuckett
Spiffeh, obv.

ok.... i could see someone scumreading whichever one is the abrasive head of polar vortex. i disagree but whatever.

how vnb makes the list (let alone over ahsoka) is beyond me though. plz explain.

LAST the thing i asked before about kmd and why you're townreading him/his posts. MY scumread on him is softening because as he continues to post it looks to me like it's more and more possible he's just a cookie cutter and boring person all-around so i might have been scumreading something nai. i'm still not explicitly TOWNreading anything he's done so far so is there something in his meta / what do you see in kmd?

[Prism]

Anyway, that was just my catchup, I'm hoping to get a readslist together later as a means of getting myself to dig deeper into some players (ex. camn/Polar/VNB)

[Heartless]

yeah well your conclusion sucks

You both have mentioned Ahsoka's main as a reinforcement of the scumread, significantly so. You don't want to talk about the meta because you know utilizing it in debate requires outing Ahsoka, okay, that's fine.

Sticking your head in the sand and expecting me to gather the same level of certainty, without it, on my end though is irrational.

you can't see or hear me rn but i'm making fart noises with my mouth at you

[Polar Vortex]

Spoiler:

i've got my own issues w camn that i'd like to talk to her about. will put together a post after work

ok so first circling back to this

camn dismisses me instead of acknowledging what I'm trying to say

Spiff- you haven't come at me from an honest place all game. Since before I even posted it was all camnisscumcamnisscum. Why should I bother engaging with YOU?

The idea that

I

am somehow tunnel-persecuting

you

is laughable.

your comeback to spiffeh accusing you of not engaging him and tunneling is to accuse him of doing it first and idk where that came from but it's not from what's gone on in this game?

I predict the scum will be camn, NoticeMeSenpai, and Prism

VOTE: camn

i have a secret scumread. you wanna guess who it is?

camn?

you cited all these posts as proof he's tunneling you but post 31+35 look like rvs screwing around to me and 136 seems more like randomly farting out a name than a serious attempt to paint you as scummy. is there some other context (a previous game) where something happened between you+spiffeh that carried over here or what?

next up, this lynch pool

I forgot what they were.

Here is my lynch-pool though. For today.

VNB National Plan
Polar Vortex
MaxwellPuckett
Spiffeh, obv.

ok.... i could see someone scumreading whichever one is the abrasive head of polar vortex. i disagree but whatever.

how vnb makes the list (let alone over ahsoka) is beyond me though. plz explain.

LAST the thing i asked before about kmd and why you're townreading him/his posts. MY scumread on him is softening because as he continues to post it looks to me like it's more and more possible he's just a cookie cutter and boring person all-around so i might have been scumreading something nai. i'm still not explicitly TOWNreading anything he's done so far so is there something in his meta / what do you see in kmd?

Both heads are abrasive though

[VNB National Plan]

you can't see or hear me rn but i'm making fart noises with my mouth at you

I'm beginning to understand why Bella loves you so much

[camn]

Coffee then I'm witcha

[camn]

where something happened between you+

spiffeh

that carried over here or what?

No carryover-- just this game. He was somehow blaming me for not having a high level of 'engagement' with him, when he has been calling for my lynch, be it RVS or real, the entire game. Why do I wanna engage with that? But I am way past it, so meh.

this lynch pool

So a point of clarity, since I see you have slightly misinterpreted.
That is a lynch-pool... not a scum-list.
They are different to me.
Part of the reason some people have a hard time reading me is this: I suck early in the game. I KNOW I suck. so I take a pretty straightforward strategy regardless of alignment.. I try and create a gamestate where I can win. Alsmost always this means a gamestate of poeple who I know, who I can read, and whose reactions I can rely on. I want predictability in mid- and late-game.... and that is the shining northstar of my early game. (side note- That gamestate ADDITIONALLY is a state where I am ALIVE and not nightkilled. Read into that what you will!)
It is rare when I have a HARD scumread early. Mostly I have a quantum-entagled scumread on EVERYONE, along with a townread on EVERYONE. So I do that ^^.

Ahsoka

was not initially in the pool because of what I said- I am confident I will be able to read him.

That said, if he isn't going to post, it isn't worth waiting.

kmd

and why you're townreading him/his posts.

It's nothing hard.. I used to play with him a lot and he rings town. He also certainly fits into the category of people who I will be able to read, given enough material. So I am not anxious for a lynch there.

[Polar Vortex]

Wanting to lynch people because you don't know them is such a garbage reason holy fuck. Like wtf is that style of play

[camn]

Wanting to lynch people because you don't know them is such a garbage reason holy fuck. Like wtf is that style of play

Ha ha. I knew somebody would hate that.
Its not JUST if I know them.. if someone's Day1 play seems really responsive and logical.. they can stay.

But I CERTAINLY believe strongly that the way to win this game is to create an endgame with people I can trust.
And knowing them informs that decision.