Newbie 1817 - Bolo (Game Over)

[Xalxe]

Prodding FrozenMagpie.

[FancyPants]

As for Gorny, I do see some scum hunting but I'm not completely convinced it's genuine, I don't like the fact that he's unwilling to vote, and I don't like his reasoning for his suspects. For now I'm still very much figuring Gorny out. On that note:

@Gorny here you say:

Im reading your last post as fancy pants was asking me who I would kill if I were scum. Is this an inaccurate representation of what you Said?.

Yes.
He did not say if you were scum in his post, but that's the way I interpreted it, I get the feeling that he was asking you that if you were scum but left that part out.

If he is scum, it's pretty ballsy.

I've bolded the part I want to talk about.
Then you say:

Why misrepresent what he said? 144 said he was asking for my scum reads. If you think he's lying Say that instead.

I do think he's lying.

FP care to explain yourself?

So you think it's a ballsy scum play but you still think I'm lying? Why are you so convinced something is scummy but by your own words you think that's a "pretty ballsy" thing for scum to do. I'm with Xa Light here it it feels like you're mis-repping me a bit. Whether you are stretching the evidence to fit your theory or doing it for scummy reasons remains to be seen.

Can you reconcile the bolded part for me Gorny?
Also did you read my defense, did you follow the links and see that I've used that phrase before?

[FancyPants]

Also Gorny committed a personal scum tell of mine which I will call scumulate. Where you emulate the person who is on to you because you know they are a good towny.
I'm referring to when he used the word "ballsy", like I did earlier about adlim.

[Xa ligha]

Fancy Pants, How did I answer your question super poorly other then add that I think aster is also scummy just less so then draynth?

[FancyPants]

Fancy Pants, How did I answer your question super poorly other then add that I think aster is also scummy just less so then draynth?

At the time you just said your strongest read was aster without elaborating.

[GreyICE]

So FancyPants, by giving you a chance to explain you self makes me unwilling to vote?

Ok.

VOTE: Fancypants

There you go.

I could agree with this vote.

[FancyPants]

So FancyPants, by giving you a chance to explain you self makes me unwilling to vote?

Ok.

VOTE: Fancypants

There you go.

I could agree with this vote.

Based on what?

In fact what is Gorny basing his vote on? Are you all just mad because you're in my suspect list?

[GreyICE]

Not at all. You jumped onto my radar here:

Aster I still have the same opinion of, they strike me as the kind of eager town who uses point by point analysis and confirmation bias to confirm suspicions. Paranoid town behaviour is exactly how I would describe it, I'm a little concerned about how much GreyIce gushed about their play, makes me think it might be a buddying attempt but niceness isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I kinda like Mothergothel's OMGUS of GreyIce, I'd generally consider OMGUS to be more town behaviour coming from Newbs based on "The people attacking me must be scum since I know I'm town" kind of logic. Rather than a "Whelp there are people attacking me and I'm scum, they must be on to me." kind of response which I don't feel we got.

This is all sorts of shade thrown at me for... town reading your town read? And saying you liked MotherGothel's OMGUS without going over any of her points was a great way to say that "I don't want to get into any sort of deep analysis of the argument, but the fact that there is an argument makes me town read her!"

Oh you can burn. Want a full case?

[GreyICE]

Because I am very, very, very happy to lynch you.

MotherGothel is more obviously scum, but you're a very fine pick as a buddy.

[FancyPants]

I don't think it's weird to be worried that the IC is buddying the most active player (at the time).
I also don't think getting involved in every single discussion (especially when you disagree with the case) is productive, but I was happy to see where it went, at least it was activity and interaction (with regards to you and mothergorthel).

This feel like your issue with me stems from two things:
You're annoyed that I disagree with you.
I happen to be defending the person you're wagoning.

While not entirely unreasonable from your perspective, I think you really need to consider that you are wrong in both cases. MotherGothel could be scum but I'm not sold.
If you want a full breakdown about why I think the case is wrong I'd be happy to do so, I'm going out to dinner but will be back later.

Or you're scum ofc.

[MotherGothel28]

Misunderstanding there. GreyICE is trying to Lynch me off of FALSE information. You're trying to Lynch me for calling him out on false information.

Also, you're reacting very strongly to my explanations.

Now that's just a complete misrepresentation.

Spoiler: IC Stuff

What is a misrepresentation? It's when you alter someone's arguments in order to make them appear weaker than they are. It may be based on misunderstanding their arguments, it may be based on a defensive mindset where the player is simply fending off attacks without properly characterizing their opponent's arguments, but it is seen as scummy for a particular reason.

The reason it is seen as scummy is that Scum have no need to read other people's posts in order to know their alignment. Therefore it is more likely that a townie will read a player's post and attempt to determine what alignment their attacker is, while a scumbag will deflect.

It may simply all be a breakdown in communication though. Don't assume that someone is scum because they don't understand what you're saying. Maybe you just didn't get your point across to them. It's very easy to get caught in the trap of confirmation bias when you're already scumreading a player.

What I said was that you were posting irrelevant fluff posting and deliberately avoiding taking stances on the game. Stuff like these posts:

In my experience random voting doesn't last super long. This is my first game here, but I've played elsewhere, and people generally like to find stuff as soon as they can and get down to business (to defeat the Huns...)

Oh yeah, I also spent about 4 years playing in person in our church youth group every Friday night lol. It functioned basically the same, except there was less talk, and it was in a dark creepy church and we had to actually walk around and find dead bodies.

You can't be disappointed in McGuyver!

Yes! I loved when they actually threw McGuyver jokes into the shows script. I swear in one episode they threw in a few comments about needing duct tape and I couldn't stop laughing, my husband was so confused!!

These posts are not relevant to the game - in fact they could probably be posted in an "introduce yourself" thread quite easily. Now I am not saying "all business all the time", but I made the point that your only game relevant post was this one:

^^^ exactly this.

This is a newbie game with someone who said he had only played the card game, so I honestly dislike the amount of reading into that which Aster is doing. It's a pretty scummy thing to make something bad out of an innocent question.

This post is very weak and non-commital as your only game relevant post, and is in fact agreeing with what another townie is saying rather than providing any unique reads. I also did note that you did not follow it up with a vote - not realizing your RVS vote was Aster - but instead returned to fluff posting with no further commentary on anything Aster did.

Now that you understand what I am saying properly, would you care to respond?

My response is that I have followed up on Aster where I had something to say. I've already stated that I'm not just going to comment on everything that happens in the game.

[MotherGothel28]

I don't think it's weird to be worried that the IC is buddying the most active player (at the time).
I also don't think getting involved in every single discussion (especially when you disagree with the case) is productive, but I was happy to see where it went, at least it was activity and interaction (with regards to you and mothergorthel).

This feel like your issue with me stems from two things:
You're annoyed that I disagree with you.
I happen to be defending the person you're wagoning.

While not entirely unreasonable from your perspective, I think you really need to consider that you are wrong in both cases. MotherGothel could be scum but I'm not sold.
If you want a full breakdown about why I think the case is wrong I'd be happy to do so, I'm going out to dinner but will be back later.

Or you're scum ofc.

I'm used to being called scum on day1, it's something about how I play. I actually find it weird that everyone is at least slightly suspicious of me and yet you think I'm town. Maybe you're just the only one seeing what I say as I intend it, but I also have to consider that you could be scum who knows that I am town, thus trying to set up a claim that you're a good townie cause you never went after me.

[MotherGothel28]

Sorry, let me correct myself, you never actually committed to calling me town, you just "aren't sold" on me being scum. Fence sitting is something that mafia most frequently do.

[FancyPants]

Sorry, let me correct myself, you never actually committed to calling me town, you just "aren't sold" on me being scum. Fence sitting is something that mafia most frequently do.

Only scum KNOW who's town, honestly my worry now is that if you flip scum I'm going to get auto attacked. Truth is it seems like everybody and their dog thinks you're scum.

For what it's worth I don't - but I could be wrong it would be hypocritical of me to ask GreyIce to have an open mind without having one myself, but hint: if you aren't in my scum list of four:

Scum are probably in [Gorny, GreyIce, Draynth, FrozenMagpie}.

I don't think you're very scummy.

[FancyPants]

@GreyIce, if you're going to come at me come at me, this town needs more interaction, we only have 7 days to orchestrate a lynch and weekends are always bad for activity so it's more like 4 day. The rugby championship is this weekend so I won't be active myself.
I haven't said anything I'm not willing to defend so go.

[FancyPants]

For what it's worth I kind of like that GreyIce is annoyed that I'm defending Mothergothel, it's a natural reaction for town GreyIce that thinks mothergothel is scumto be suspicious of anyone who defends her. I can see the thought process here that Greyice thinks I'm chainsaw defending my buddy.

Big call for the the sake of the end game - FrozenMagpie and Gorny for the scum team. Just so I can quote this and gloat when the game is over.

[GreyICE]

I don't think it's weird to be worried that the IC is buddying the most active player (at the time).
I also don't think getting involved in every single discussion (especially when you disagree with the case) is productive, but I was happy to see where it went, at least it was activity and interaction (with regards to you and mothergorthel).

This feel like your issue with me stems from two things:
You're annoyed that I disagree with you.
I happen to be defending the person you're wagoning.

While not entirely unreasonable from your perspective, I think you really need to consider that you are wrong in both cases. MotherGothel could be scum but I'm not sold.
If you want a full breakdown about why I think the case is wrong I'd be happy to do so, I'm going out to dinner but will be back later.

Or you're scum ofc.

As a personal preference, and because you're not a newbie I'm not going to lay it out all formal-like. Don't fucking make shit up about why I'm doing something unless you want me to come rip your throat out and decorate the walls with your blood.

[GreyICE]

Hmmm.

I'll entertain your rabbit hole. I always like diving into them to see what people are thinking. And... oooh, this one is not terrible at all. This post is all sorts of weird and you didn't seem to have noted it, meaning it's not you latching on to a specific mistake. Namely, well, I'll just highlight it.

Frozen Magpie:

Initially (up to post 49) null. With 53 he pokes a bit at
FancyPants 50.

Another null but slight town read.

FancyPants (Leaning Town)
Aster (Null/town)
Xa ligha (Null)
adlim (Null)
Draynth (Null - like dead center null even)
GreyIce (Null)

FrozenMagpie (Null/possible scum lean)

MotherGothel28 (Null/possible scum lean)

This is the same post. One person and ONLY one person in the town changes their read between Gorny's explanation thing and Gorny's summary - indicating Gorny had initially listed one thing as a read but at some point revised it without changing the read in both places. And you just called them out as a scumteam together.

This is the sort of rabbit hole that might have rabbits.

[FancyPants]

@GreyIce If you want to decorate the walls with my blood please feel free, I have nothing to hide.

Do you think it's unreasonable for me to be scared you might be buddying?

Your case on mothergothel (and I don't want to mis-rep you so feel free to correct me) is is based on two major points.
1. Her lack of actual participation, in terms of she has made posts but you don't feel like she is contributing in a meaningful way.
2. Post 101 where you say she is 100% scum for saying the meat of the game just started.


Firstly in terms of point 1, what differentiates her "non contributing" from the other players in the game, specifically taking into account post 99 here I''m talking about people like Draynth, and frozenmagpie (even xa light).

With regards to point 2 do you think it's completely impossible that her comment was referring to the actual content of the game, I personally dread the RVS myself.
Don't get me wrong I completely get your logic here, as scum I just skim the thread and only really focus when someone is accusing me, this is one of your stronger points,

That said I don't think its unrealistic that mothergothel is just happy the real content of the game has started, what makes you so sure this makes her "100% scum". I don't feel like scum mothergothel reacts this way.

Real scum may just skim the thread and then suddenly burst into action when they get accused, but are they excited about it?
Mothergothel just seems eager that something is happening in game, does scum mothergothel see that she is being accused and get excited? For me scum mothergothel replies to the pressure but isn't happy about it.

Everything about her response is town to me. If you disagree explain why. Honestly I'm starting to think this exchange is town vs town. Vote Gorny.

[FancyPants]

.

Interesting comment, are you saying I have a point in my Gorny + magpie scumteam?

Otherwise please explain explicitly.

[FancyPants]

Hmmm.

I'll entertain your rabbit hole. I always like diving into them to see what people are thinking. And... oooh, this one is not terrible at all. This post is all sorts of weird and you didn't seem to have noted it, meaning it's not you latching on to a specific mistake. Namely, well, I'll just highlight it.

Frozen Magpie:

Initially (up to post 49) null. With 53 he pokes a bit at
FancyPants 50.

Another null but slight town read.

FancyPants (Leaning Town)
Aster (Null/town)
Xa ligha (Null)
adlim (Null)
Draynth (Null - like dead center null even)
GreyIce (Null)

FrozenMagpie (Null/possible scum lean)

MotherGothel28 (Null/possible scum lean)

This is the same post. One person and ONLY one person in the town changes their read between Gorny's explanation thing and Gorny's summary - indicating Gorny had initially listed one thing as a read but at some point revised it without changing the read in both places. And you just called them out as a scumteam together.

This is the sort of rabbit hole that might have rabbits.

I meant to quote this.

[Gorny]

FancyPants, you seemed to have left out what I said about FrozenMagpie in the post below:

@Gorny, what are your best bets for scum at the moment?

Will go through that after work

As promised:

Revised reads list from 100 on:


Draynth (Town)
Aster (Town lean)
GreyICE (Town Lean)
---------------
adilm29h (Null)
Xa ligha (Null)
--------------
FrozenMagpie (Null but leaning towards scum)
MotherGothel28 (Leaning Scum)
-----------------------
FancyPants (Scum)

Spoiler: details

Draynth:

I'm getting a town read from him, partially for his reaction in
131 to Fancypants 130 and then also
137 and 142


Aster (The Paranoid Townie) [Trademark on name title!]:

I'm getting a town lean here, Aster thanked MotherGothel for her
leads in 105 but did not really like them, but
appreciated that Mother was attempting to give us some. Aster
pointed out that several of Mother's were pretty much pointless.

Saying that She (Mother) is just twisting words With his
comments about her, it puts her in more of a scum light so to
speak. He suspects Mother/Adlim of being mafia.
Also suspects her of trying to be "buddies" with several other
players.

I also like Aster's questioning of Adlim in 168.
He's trying to get Adlim to voice something new.

Aster Leans Town.

GreyIce:

Mostly IC type posts up to 101, and he voted
MotherGothel in 96 which set her off, I don't see
that as scummy from him (he voted the person on the very bottom
of his scum list), which produced an OMGUS vote from her. He's
likely town.

He also makes a good case against MotherGothel in 101.

For now GreyIce leans town.



Adlim29h:

He retracted his vote from FP saying that FP seemed very relaxed
about playing mafia. He's not sure about me, and suspects Aster
and MotherGothel. He's leaning scum on MotherGothel for being
overly defensive vs GreyIce and as far as Aster, adlim says
Aster is quick to put the blame on someone else.

In his 167 he pretty much says the same thing as
his 124. It's almost like he cut and pasted it with
slight reformatting. TThough he also feels that FancyPants is
mafia for the way he's talking.

Adlim's scumm points are Aster, Mother and FancyPants
Even after all that, I'm still Null on Adlim.


Xa Ligha:

Seems to be suspicious of GreyIce, especially for
picking her " Allright now we're getting into the meat of the
game" comment in 101
Xa's strongest scum read was Aster 155
I can't find much on Xa to lean strongly either way at this
point.

Xa is Null.

FrozenMagpie:

Not much from him after my 100
He showed up in 135 and asked about how he (she??)
should format reads, but then was gone. That was 24 IRL hours
ago..and no reads. Hmmm..

Null leaning towards scum.

MotheGothel28:

Defensive vs GreyIce, als she's pushing hard against him in
103 with the

Also, thinking on this more, I disagree with your
gameplay analysis here. It's stated in a way that makes it easy
to accept, but I'm finding it hard to swallow. The game doesn't
begin for mafia when someone votes them, in fact they thrive in
a game where no heat is on them, so they can point fingers where
they wish. The point of the game is for mafia to avoid attention
whenever possible, not for them to react strongly to early
votes, thus their gameplay would really start long before anyone
placed a vote on them, setting the stage for their innocence.
This is why I dislike people who come in as teachers, you say
things like they are 100% fact and people could start to believe
you.

bit there.

She leaning town on Aster. 147 and in 184 she's firing back at Adlim for accusing her of being overly defensive. To note tough, her 21, which was in response to my 19 about possible sum teams based off of matching
letters of player's names, in which my post was in response to
Aster's 17. Mother's quick reaction and comment
that she's "Good with that logic" would make sense IF she was
scum. Obviously so because then she's off the radar.

Mother Leans toward Scum.

FancyPants:

Definate scum lean after 100
The strongest factor here was his 130 and even
Draynth reacted to it the same way. Other dfactors for putting
FP on the scum list include his 117 for pushing
what I said about Aster being a "paranoid townie" and then me
listing him as null or scum leaning in my previous reads.
He seemed to miss out on the fact that Aster self titled himself
as a "paranoid townie" even after I clarified that it was a
title that I was using to refer to Aster (based off Aster's
giving himself that title) and that my listing Aster as null or
scum lean had nothing to do with the title "paranoid townie."
FancyPants also took issue with me unvoting Aster in the RVS
stage. I find this a bit scummy because everyone eventually
unvotes from RVS once real reasons worth voting start to appear.

FP goes scum side.

Or did you purposely omit it?

Your pants don't seem so fancy anymore... more like what's left over from a $2 suit at the thrift store.

[FancyPants]

Omit it where?
Please address post 226

[FancyPants]

Oh omit it in post 245 I was just quoting Greyice in 242.

[FancyPants]

But GreyIce (I think that's the point he's making) does have a good point, your read changed from town lean to scum lean without much encouragement (with regards to magpie).