Newbie 1815: Prisons [Endgame]

[Ciara24]

messed up the post tags but it's on the same page so it doesn't matter.

[Ciara24]

Now that I caught scum I'm going to go ahead and take a day off ...

Also, anyone else concerned that someone is taking a nearly two week VLA ... I feel like if I couldn't commit to a game for a full in game action I'd replace out. Like, I'm not saying it's AI as that's crappy, and I don't want to lynch the slot for that but .... Leaving for a whole IG day basically just nerfs an already crappy game.

Also what is this? obviously V/LA is NAI so why are you bringing up in a 'I'm not saying it's AI but....' weird way? Like yeah I'd prefer if tatters replaced out too if he isn't going to be here but this is an awful post

[Ciara24]

I didn't like Icibalus and Aphix is not making me feel any different about that slot. Bye scum
VOTE: Aphix

[skitter30]

I would like Aphix to explain what he meant by 'scumslip' as well, but I'm not voting him.

Even ignoring the fact that he's my second strongest townread, the fact that the 5 of you are pushing him right now is quite alarming.

Unless you want to argue that the scumteam is Aphix/Madtatters (it isn't. If you want to make this argument, you need to show me why you think this), at least one scum just expressed interest in pushing him, assuming you believe I'm basically conf!town, which pretty much all of you said you did.

If Aphix is scum, they're trying to distance. I don't think he's done anything so objectively scummy that his partner needs to get him lynched right here, right now. I don't think there's strong enough motivation for scum!Aphix's partner to distance and/or bus him atm. Scum!Aphix's partner should be pushing the Paul counterwagon right now, not pushing Aphix. If Aphix isn't scum, two scum are pushing him right now and are trying to manufacture a counterwagon.

I don't believe scum!Aphix gets that many votes that fast, or experiences a push this strong based on that post. He's Paul's counterwagon.

[skitter30]

I hadn't had coffee yet when I wrote my last post, so I don't think I explained myself that well, and I also missed a possibility, so I'm going to go through that again. The conclusion's the same though.

Five people either voted Aphix (Paul, DP, Ciara) expressed an interest in pushing him (Osuka), or thinks Aphix's scumslip post is BS, and is entertaining the idea that scum!Aphix might be pushing this (Jae).

That means that three people are not pushing Aphix right now: Me, Madtatters, and Aphix himself.

I'm basically conf!town, so I can't be partners with anyone, and I think everyone agrees to this.

Let's look at the possibilities of the alignments of Madtatters/Aphix:

1. Madtatters and Aphix are both scum. I'm independently townreading both of them. I don't think there's anything in their dual ISOs to support this team. If I'm wrong about this, you need to show me why.

2. town!Madtatters and scum!Aphix. This is the possibility I discussed above, so I'm just going to copy-paste: If Aphix is scum, they're trying to distance. I don't think he's done anything so objectively scummy that his partner needs to get him lynched right here, right now. I don't think there's strong enough motivation for scum!Aphix's partner to distance and/or bus him atm. Scum!Aphix's partner should be pushing the Paul counterwagon right now, not pushing Aphix.

3. scum!Madtatters and town!Aphix. This is the possibility I missed by mistake. There's one scum amongst the five of you.

4. Town!madtatters and town!Aphix. This means that two scum are pushing him right now and are trying to manufacture a counterwagon.

Unless you want to argue that we live in the first universe, from my POV (and the rest of you too since I'm mechanically basically confirmed), this push on Aphix is at least partially scum motivated and I will have no part in it. I don't think the current gamestate makes sense in universe 2 either, for what it's worth.

[Madtatters]

I've actually given up my 2 weeks V/LA, but since I have school stuff, expect really long singular posts for the next couple weeks, bc of the reasons in my last post.



Aphix, being Icibalus's replacement, is scum to me. Icibalus voted for me for about three rl days until he switched out with Aphix. Aphix then, not even being in the game for maybe two or three rl days, voted for me until then switching over to MWAP. During D1, Osuka was probably my biggest scum read, but I've backed off because 1.) I was suspecting Icibalus as scum with Ciara (reasons now void), but when my count-to-lynch kept shrinking, I started to suspect Osuka, singularly accusing him as scum, and even voting. I never officially (in my opinion) paired my two biggest scum reads. But in hindsight, I would say my two biggest scum reads in D1 were Osuka and Icibalus. Now in D2 (actually well into the time we were voting to lynch MWAP), my suspicions on Osuka grew weaker to the point I don't see him as scum. So since Aphix replaces Icibalus, I'm seeing them as scum.

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

For now, the only one I'd definitely say is scum is Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

In the meantime

VOTE: Aphix

[Madtatters]

I've actually given up my 2 weeks V/LA, but since I have school stuff, expect really long singular posts for the next couple weeks, bc of the reasons in my last post.



Aphix, being Icibalus's replacement, is scum to me. Icibalus voted for me for about three rl days until he switched out with Aphix. Aphix then, not even being in the game for maybe two or three rl days, voted for me until then switching over to MWAP. During D1, Osuka was probably my biggest scum read, but I've backed off because 1.) I was suspecting Icibalus as scum with Ciara (reasons now void), but when my count-to-lynch kept shrinking, I started to suspect Osuka, singularly accusing him as scum, and even voting. I never officially (in my opinion) paired my two biggest scum reads. But in hindsight, I would say my two biggest scum reads in D1 were Osuka and Icibalus. Now in D2 (actually well into the time we were voting to lynch MWAP), my suspicions on Osuka grew weaker to the point I don't see him as scum. So since Aphix replaces Icibalus, I'm seeing them as scum.

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

For now, the only one I'd definitely say is scum is Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

In the meantime

VOTE: Aphix

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

Correction: "That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed,

CIARA

, and Aphix

Excuse the confusion.

[Madtatters]

I've actually given up my 2 weeks V/LA, but since I have school stuff, expect really long singular posts for the next couple weeks, bc of the reasons in my last post.



Aphix, being Icibalus's replacement, is scum to me. Icibalus voted for me for about three rl days until he switched out with Aphix. Aphix then, not even being in the game for maybe two or three rl days, voted for me until then switching over to MWAP. During D1, Osuka was probably my biggest scum read, but I've backed off because 1.) I was suspecting Icibalus as scum with Ciara (reasons now void), but when my count-to-lynch kept shrinking, I started to suspect Osuka, singularly accusing him as scum, and even voting. I never officially (in my opinion) paired my two biggest scum reads. But in hindsight, I would say my two biggest scum reads in D1 were Osuka and Icibalus. Now in D2 (actually well into the time we were voting to lynch MWAP), my suspicions on Osuka grew weaker to the point I don't see him as scum. So since Aphix replaces Icibalus, I'm seeing them as scum.

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

For now, the only one I'd definitely say is scum is Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

In the meantime

VOTE: Aphix

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

Correction: "That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed,

CIARA

, and Aphix

Excuse the confusion.

VOTE COUNT 2 . 16 NotTheRealPaul - 2 ( Skitter30, aphix ) L- 3 aphix ---------- 1 ( NotTheRealPaul ) L- 4 Not Voting ----- 5 ( Ciara24, osuka, JaeReed, DoctorPepper, madtatters ) With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch Deadline is in (expired on 2017-08-29 19:41:35)

FOS COUNT 2 . 16 NotTheRealPaul - 1 ( Skitter30 ) Not FoS'ing ---- 7 ( JaeReed, Madtatters, osuka, aphix, Ciara24 ) With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch Deadline is in (expired on 2017-08-29 19:41:35)

Also voting NTRP for a mislynch is BS. MWAP was trolling and doing a bunch of stuff, trying to make us think he was scum. Scum or not, he was a toxic player that needed to be gone anyway. Just read MWAP's posts. You'll see what I'm talking about. That vote is total bullshit. Even more reason for me to suspect Aphix.

"Scumslip" give me a break.

[aphix]

Alright. One there is something there. You notice he says there is NO way MWAP flips town. Now, he's saying that MWAP wasn't providing any content and was "keeping with useless townie".

There is a clear disconnect in that thinking there.

[aphix]

In regards to why I switched on MWAP, because there was no way the game was going to recover from that keeping him there. He was also becoming increasingly toxic and starting to attack people. It didn't look like the mod has any concern with what was going on and it needed to be handled in game. Even if he didn't get lynched it was going to create an awful environment and the game was going to be even less playable then starting out effectively day one with 5/2 game.

[aphix]

Also, no one unvote me. I want plenty of time to see who comes in and hammers early. It might actually give you a chance to win this game.

[skitter30]

Oh ffs.

That's L-1. Jae, Osuka, if either of you hammer, I'm taking it as a scumclaim, not that I'm going to be around tomorrow to get make sure you get lynched for it.

Literally *everyone* besides myself and Aphix are pushing him or voting right now.

The only way this push can be town-motivated is if me and aphix are scumpartners.

I'm all but mechnically confirmed town, and I don't think anyone is disputing that. I LITERALLY CAN'T BE SCUM WITH APHIX.

This is scum motivated.

This wagon is bad. This push is bad. All townies on it should feel bad.

[skitter30]

Also, no one unvote me. I want plenty of time to see who comes in and hammers early. It might actually give you a chance to win this game.

If they're both on you already, that might not happen lol.

[osuka]

well so this thread exploded

I was gonna post I had "intent to l-1" before I went out to pick up my brother from school, but since tatters already did it then I guess there's no point in doing so anymore. Consider aphix in the l-0.5 limbo - i don't quite have intent to hammer but think of it as half a vote. I'm actually more tempted to do it now that you threatened to take it badly, just to see how full of shit you are just because you subbed into a role that's confirmed town

Tatters gains town points for the display of coherence and cohesion in 380-382

I like your wall but: I don't think tatters is scum (so 1/3 aren't good possibilities imo) and if you think that at some point in this wagon aphix's partner tried to distance, then you have to consider the possibility of said distancing attempt happening at a bus stop

[aphix]

Also, no one unvote me. I want plenty of time to see who comes in and hammers early. It might actually give you a chance to win this game.

If they're both on you already, that might not happen lol.

Eh, if this is the case and no one pulls there head out and finds an actual lynch for the day then maybe I can rant about how crappy you all are and self hammer. I hear that earns me good player points.

[JaeReed]

I'm actually more tempted to do it now that you threatened to take it badly

LOL same.
But I'm the IC so I can't be a shitter.

I do want the hammer to hold off. Weekend is coming up and I'll be around a bit more then and hopefully be able to decide if this is a lynch I want or whether there's someone I'd prefer to go through and try to build up a cw on and case. If someone could unvote for that purpose for me that'd be ace.

@Skitter I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to read your posts but from what I can glean it feels like you're assuming that scum wouldn't bus here. Can you expand on why you think that, please?

[NotTheRealPaul]

lack of counterwagon, speed of a wagon, etc dont make it bad

bad reasoning makes a bad wagon imo. aphix coulda dodged this shit had he answered first time i asked but now its l-1 and has yet to answer.

[Alisae]

VOTE COUNT 2 . 17 aphix ---------- 4 ( NotTheRealPaul, DoctorPepper, Ciara24, madtatters ) L- 1 NotTheRealPaul - 2 ( Skitter30, aphix ) L- 3 Not Voting ----- 2 ( osuka, JaeReed ) With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch Deadline is in (expired on 2017-08-29 19:41:35)

FOS COUNT 2 . 17 NotTheRealPaul - 1 ( Skitter30 ) Not FoS'ing ---- 7 ( JaeReed, Madtatters, osuka, aphix, Ciara24 ) With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch Deadline is in (expired on 2017-08-29 19:41:35)

[DoctorPepper]

Alright. One there is something there. You notice he says there is NO way MWAP flips town. Now, he's saying that MWAP wasn't providing any content and was "keeping with useless townie".

There is a clear disconnect in that thinking there.

1. If Paul was town he wouldn't know MWAP was scum. He could feel strongly about it and say stuff like "there is no way MWAP flips town" because he doesn't believe it's possible.
2. MWAP wasn't providing content and was therefore a useless townie.
3. His full quote was "at worst, we lynch a useless tonight" or something to that effect
4. Why the fuck would scum post that exact line of thinking?

I'm tunneling you until you get lynched

[DoctorPepper]

At worst we lynch a townie who conteributes zero.

Like no one else is super scummy at this point in game and there isnt really a better lynch

[NotTheRealPaul]

couldnt u have fixed my spelling?

jk jk lol

[DoctorPepper]

I've actually given up my 2 weeks V/LA, but since I have school stuff, expect really long singular posts for the next couple weeks, bc of the reasons in my last post.



Aphix, being Icibalus's replacement, is scum to me. Icibalus voted for me for about three rl days until he switched out with Aphix. Aphix then, not even being in the game for maybe two or three rl days, voted for me until then switching over to MWAP. During D1, Osuka was probably my biggest scum read, but I've backed off because 1.) I was suspecting Icibalus as scum with Ciara (reasons now void), but when my count-to-lynch kept shrinking, I started to suspect Osuka, singularly accusing him as scum, and even voting. I never officially (in my opinion) paired my two biggest scum reads. But in hindsight, I would say my two biggest scum reads in D1 were Osuka and Icibalus. Now in D2 (actually well into the time we were voting to lynch MWAP), my suspicions on Osuka grew weaker to the point I don't see him as scum. So since Aphix replaces Icibalus, I'm seeing them as scum.

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

For now, the only one I'd definitely say is scum is Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

In the meantime

VOTE: Aphix

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

Correction: "That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed,

CIARA

, and Aphix

Excuse the confusion.

I would say that your basis for town is activity and your strongest town reads are players who post more

[DoctorPepper]

If you look at activity overview, your strongest town reads are
NTRP - 106
Osuka - 61
Skitter - 27 combined with Hi I'm Yakko, but also cosider hat Skitter ha been active for Day 2 only as a replacement

You are also unsure of Jae who has 48 posts

Me, Ciara, and aphix have 18, 12 and 28 respectively

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but try going for motivation for posting instead of activity. It's easy to town read active players, but it's more reliable to see motivations towards posts rather than sheer content

[Madtatters]

If you look at activity overview, your strongest town reads are
NTRP - 106
Osuka - 61
Skitter - 27 combined with Hi I'm Yakko, but also cosider hat Skitter ha been active for Day 2 only as a replacement

You are also unsure of Jae who has 48 posts

Me, Ciara, and aphix have 18, 12 and 28 respectively

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but try going for motivation for posting instead of activity. It's easy to town read active players, but it's more reliable to see motivations towards posts rather than sheer content

I've actually given up my 2 weeks V/LA, but since I have school stuff, expect really long singular posts for the next couple weeks, bc of the reasons in my last post.



Aphix, being Icibalus's replacement, is scum to me. Icibalus voted for me for about three rl days until he switched out with Aphix. Aphix then, not even being in the game for maybe two or three rl days, voted for me until then switching over to MWAP. During D1, Osuka was probably my biggest scum read, but I've backed off because 1.) I was suspecting Icibalus as scum with Ciara (reasons now void), but when my count-to-lynch kept shrinking, I started to suspect Osuka, singularly accusing him as scum, and even voting. I never officially (in my opinion) paired my two biggest scum reads. But in hindsight, I would say my two biggest scum reads in D1 were Osuka and Icibalus. Now in D2 (actually well into the time we were voting to lynch MWAP), my suspicions on Osuka grew weaker to the point I don't see him as scum. So since Aphix replaces Icibalus, I'm seeing them as scum.

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

For now, the only one I'd definitely say is scum is Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

In the meantime

VOTE: Aphix

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

Correction: "That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed,

CIARA

, and Aphix

Excuse the confusion.

I would say that your basis for town is activity and your strongest town reads are players who post more

I'm not going on the basis of activity. Ahpix, Icibalus, and Osuka were all very active, and I had scumread all of them. NTRP is gut town for me. He always had been. It was never based on activity, but by the middle of D1, I gut towned him. Aphix, Icibalus, and Osuka on the other hand were/are very active, yet . I scumread all of them. I left Osuka alone because as D1 progressed, I suspected him less and less to the point where it didn't make much sense to me why he would be scum. Aphix on the other hand, is Icibalus's replacement, and I scum read him with Ciara in D1. D2 comes along with Aphix, and I scumread Aphix as scum bc of the former player they replaced. Also with the 'scumslip' shit with NTRP pertaining to MWAP, I am becoming almost certain that Aphix is scum with JaeReed, you, or Ciara. If I was town reading based on activity, I would have scumleaned Skitter, You, and Ciara as town. But I've only townread Skitter bc Hi im Yakko was also gut town for me. You and Ciara have the least amount of posts, while Jae has some of the most. Yet I'm not confirming nor denying which side I think you guys are on.

The point of this elaboration is that activity is not what encourages my reads. At least, not anymore. That would just be bogus reasoning. If I'm going to read someone, its going to be on more than their activity. Believe me.

[skitter30]

I'm actually more tempted to do it now that you threatened to take it badly, just to see how full of shit you are just because you subbed into a role that's confirmed town

It doesn't really matter how I take it, cuz I'm going to be dead.

Tatters gains town points for the display of coherence and cohesion in 380-382

Spoiler:

Aphix, being Icibalus's replacement, is scum to me. Icibalus voted for me for about three rl days until he switched out with Aphix. Aphix then, not even being in the game for maybe two or three rl days, voted for me until then switching over to MWAP.

OMGUS. This isn't a valid reason to scumread the slot. Her stated reason for scumreading her is that the slot voted for her. That's it.

During D1, Osuka was probably my biggest scum read,

No reason given for why she scumread you.

but I've backed off because 1.) I was suspecting Icibalus as scum with Ciara (reasons now void), but when my count-to-lynch kept shrinking, I started to suspect Osuka, singularly accusing him as scum, and even voting.

She backed off of you because she's doing pre-flip associatives that she didn't explain. She's voting Aphix and apparently has Ciara in her null pool but they aren't scum together because . . . she doesn't say. If they aren't scum together, why isn't Ciara in her townpool? She literally forgot about her. If they are scum together, why are those reasons now void?

She doesn't explain how her wagon relates to you being scum.

So since Aphix replaces Icibalus, I'm seeing them as scum.

Again, her stated reason for scumreading Aphix is the fact that Icibalus voted her early in day1, and Aphix kept the vote on her.

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

Correction: "That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, CIARA, and Aphix

She's voting with people she at best nullreads. Besides for Aphix himself, literally everyone she doesn't think is town is voting or pushing him. That's a huge red flag, both for her that the wagon might be sketchy, and also for the rest of us when trying to sort her.

Also voting NTRP for a mislynch is BS. MWAP was trolling and doing a bunch of stuff, trying to make us think he was scum. Scum or not, he was a toxic player that needed to be gone anyway. Just read MWAP's posts. You'll see what I'm talking about. That vote is total bullshit. Even more reason for me to suspect Aphix.

"Scumslip" give me a break.

She literally explained why Paul's push on Aphix is stupid. Aphix voted for MWAP cuz she was toxic and needed to go. Paul is pushing Aphix for this vote. It's quite apparent that she understands and agrees with Aphix's vote on MWAP . . . and yet is supporting Paul in this push and voting Aphix.

and if you think that at some point in this wagon aphix's partner tried to distance, then you have to consider the possibility of said distancing attempt happening at a bus stop

That still means there's scum on the wagon/push, regardless of Aphix's alignment.

So, let's talk about this, assuming me and Tatters are town.

Let's assume Aphix is scum (scenario 4). His partner must be within {Tatters, Paul, you, DP, Jae, and Ciara}. Who do you think is distancing from him or bussing him here? Someone has to be. Who is it?

Now let's do the other one. Me and Aphix are both town (scenario 2). There must be two scum within {Tatters, Paul, you, DP, Jae, and Ciara}. Who do you think they are?