In post 118, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
Mulch wrote:
Well, first off I sort of gut scum him due to his first couple of posts. Obviously that's not super accurate but from what I've played with him he's pretty free flowing and active and he seemed to get too serious too quickly for me. I mean, yeah, in general that's equal equity to both scum and town but it just seemed unusual for him.
Is this meta or what you expect from MarioManiac4? Do you have any examples of him being less serious at game start at the beginning?
Even if so I do not agree that getting serious "too quickly" is scummy and there are other factors besides alignment which can effect this.
Also, can you explain what you mean by serious? I seem to recall him counterclaiming you as mason. Did you think that was serious? It seems you're biasing yourself
Yeah, it's meta. This is why I said "from when I've played with him" lol . Check out um Ircher's last game. I agree with you that it's not scummy in general (I think I actually said this in the post when I said it's equal equity to town and scum) but it's scummy for Mario in particular. He's serious cause he's getting townreads early and the dayvig thing on twomillion was seemingly a joke but had hidden scumread underneath. Honestly, I think even his jokes are a little forced.
Wait, so you are saying he is getting serious because other people are reading him as town? And you think he's making a forced joke.
Are you sure this is something scummy for Mario to be doing? I have trouble believing meta can be accurately analyzed with the limited content we have seen from MarioManiac4 so far.
In post 119, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
Mulch wrote:Then he sort of says 2mil is scum. The thing is, 2mil is lynchbait as town which dosen;t exactly MAKE him town but honestly when I had read him I read it as town through meta, which yeah Mario woulden't have known but still. Mario pushing him for it (however jokingly) COULD come from town that dosen't really know 2million but could ALSO come from scum who want an easy target. So, yeah, something to keep in mind that ringed my alarm bells. I also sort of townread him with his brutally honest way of role fishing of me, which I'm like 99% sure that newb scum are worried about being accused of and is really inquisitive town. So EVEN if Mario is saying his dayvig comment in
39 is a joke (which dosen't exactly seem like a joke to me?), it's still weird.
This sort of thinking doesn't make sense to me. You're acknowledging that 2mil is "lynchbait as town" so it shouldn't be scummy for MarioManiac4 to have a scumread there, right? You're even saying he wouldn't have known, this seems more like a null point.
Also, this seems to be assuming that 2mil is town? I understand you said they're lynchbait as town, but that doesn't mean they can't be mafia here and it seems you've made a number of assumptions where 2mil is town without really explaining a townread on them.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying he was role fishing you, as you claimed mason early on.
Exactly, it's more of a null point. It's not something town would know, again I said this lol (that it COULD come from town). But I also know it's opportunistic of wolves. It's a null point to be sure but yeah.
How did I not explain my townread? I already told you it's meta and the fact that he had brutal role fishing. Read the game, man. lol
"The claim is real" other things are the role fishing.
Uh, how can you bring up the fact that I townread him for role fishing and still say you didn't see where I townread him? I don't get it. Explain what you were thinking here when you asked me for this right before citing that you disagreed with my reasoning.
I interpreted the role fishing comments as related to MarioManiac4. So then your reasoning for townreading them is that they did something scummy openly and they're lynch bait as town? I don't think these are good reasons, and again it's understandable that other people like MarioManiac4 will jump on him for that, you shouldn't think that they are scummy if you also believe 2mil is being lynch bait.
In post 120, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
Mulch wrote:
Honestly
83 from Mario is pretty horrible too. He basically is subtly saying "when I'm town I am lynchbait." The thing is, town are much more likely in my experience to just say it openly, yeah I get lynched a lot as town. Even then, they get accused, which is why scum sorta want to try and avoid it. But Mario's comment there has the EFFECT of saying he is lynchbait without the acceptance of the consequences of scummyness he would get if he said it openly. So yeah, a pretty generally scummy thing there.
I disagree with you here, in my opinion he did say this happens pretty openly, I think you're explaining things that aren't there in the second half of this. Things that don't really make sense.
I don't think anything related to that post made by him was scummy and your reasoning feels manufactured.
Explain this. I've made it pretty clear. If town says "I'm lynchbait", or scum do, they accept the fact that that's almost universally scumread. Mario did it in a more subtle way that has the intended effect "welcome to Mario games" but isn't saying it outright.
I disagree that MarioManiac4's intended effect was to sneakily say he gets pushed early as town. I think the way he said it in the first place was pretty open/an offhand comment, I feel like you're reading too hard into this to try to justify a read on him.
In post 121, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
Mulch wrote:
He also starts out with 2 townreads which one of them I can easily see (creature), who already is getting involved and seems towny at least by gut, but then ignition. Ignition for me maybe I'm having a different reflection cause I've played with him on mafia universe, had an uncharacteristically weak opening by just asking "why is Mario being wagoned?". Not only is this weird for him (which I can't fault Mario for) but it's a super super super typical newb scum opening, so from mario PoV I cannot for the life of me how he sees this as town or newbtown even. Like, if your scum and a town is being wagoned just asking why he's being wagoned is a way for you to get "towncred" without taking heat. Mario's an experienced player, he should pick up on this.
Why can you easily see a Creature townread? I think it is too early to judge him either way.
Again, I don't think he is particularly involved so far.
You bring up past experience playing with Ignition but they functionally have one post - it's definitely too early to have any sort of read there.
I'm confused, you say you've played with them but then call them newb scum. Are you overselling your experience with them? You also say their opening is uncharacteristic... just how much experience do they have?
I don't think it's reasonable to expect other people to pick up on your viewpoint when you don't explain it and in my opinion the reasoning is dubious at best.
Creature is obvious town already through meta, which Mario would know too. You'll learn this. I don't even have that much experience playing with him, just have seen him in games here and on MU, and he just feels off. I mean... it's also not too early. Their own post just nakedly saying "why" to a wagon is scummy in itself no matter what he is, newb or not.
What do you mean about expecting to pick up on my viewpoint? The fact that he townread that dude is off as fuck, even you can't think this lol
No, I think it's definitely too early to be town reading Creature off of meta. I believe that six posts aren't enough to tell either way.
I'm not worried about Creature right now, I think people are rushing to townread him for some reason when it should become apparent to you guys later that he is town.
As for Ignition, I do think it is too early. I've got no read on them at this time and that won't change until they get involved with the game, I don't think the read on him between the two of you should be a point of contention at this time. So yes, I think MarioManiac4's read on them is weird as well. Despite what it looks like, I'm not trying to defend MarioManiac4, I'm picking apart what I see as faulty in your read on him - I'm reading MarioManiac4 as null right now.
In post 122, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
Mulch wrote:
Let's go through
90. I want to know why he townreads Ignition who was actually the second scummiest imo in the thread so far to Mario. He says to
why
he is town, says 2 things: 1) He's being inquisitive, which is a surface level reasoning that COULD come from town!Mario but again I'm outlining in the stuff before why it's sort of weird for him to say that, and then 2) "less likely to be scum than most other things in the thread"
Now, at this point I'm wondering, what exactly are the things "other" in the thread that are so scummy that they make ignition look towny on comparison?
Mario then uses circular logic, which again isn't neccecarily scummy but just something weird, where he basically goes on a loop of saying that other things were scummy BEACUSE ignition's post is towny...as some way of expaining that ignition's post is towny in the first place. See the problem here?
Again, I think it's too early for either of you to have a read on ignition. I do think it is weird that MarioManiac4 says there are scummier things in the thread - that shouldn't affect your read on ignition, and what are the scummier things in the thread? How confident can you be this early?
It dosen't effect my read on Ignition, except to make me think Mario and him aren't SvS. IDK why you think it's too early to have a gut scum read on that weird first post by him.
We haven't even seen their reaction yet. I believe it is definitely too early, you seem to be drawing conclusions of their alignment which you will have to reconsider as they start to post. It's actually a cause for concern that you might be setting yourself up fr a biased read on ignition's future content.
In post 123, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
Mulch wrote:
Another thing: He is super confident I'm scum this game, (
92) based on
88 by him. Now, I am actually townreading the fact he picked up on it, because imo saying you mindmeld or anti mindmeld is something town and scum do, but it's definitely not something ONLY scum do. And I'll be a little LAMIST here and say that it IS something town do because I'm town
That's why the level of confidence he's expressing in his scumread of me is weird. He's super sure, and he's voting me, based on one post that I actually think makes sense? If I disagree with his first gut reactions, less likely we are on the same team. To put it simply.
I don't believe the post you quoted shows him being super confident you are scum. It feels you are attributing things that aren't there. If you haven't picked up on it yet, I'm starting to suspect that you are scum due to the amount of things you say that seem untrue. You go on to explain how confident he is that you are scum but he never actually said that, and once again we are in the early stages of the game.
He's super confident for early game. He's scumread me only out of everyone, said "lol mulch is actually scum this game", and has voted me for the entirety of the period. It's a huge difference from even me who has a scumlean on him but woulden't think to be that confident in saying it.
It actually is an uneasy level of confidence for this early game. I mean, he's not even focused on anyone else.
I haven't said anything untrue. State another flat out lie and I will tunnel you for the rest of the game.
I disagree that he has shown confidence - him thinking you are scum is an opinion so far... a gut read, whereas you've made a big post explaining your read. I'd go as far to say that you're more confident than him, though I know you're saying it's weird for him specifically to be confident. I don't think MarioManiac4 looks especially confident at this time and you're really stretching to find reasons to scumread him in my opinion.
Threatening to tunnel me for my opinion is at best bad play. I believe you are saying things that are not strictly true to further your own read.
In post 124, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
]
In post 116, Mulch wrote:Honestly probably think Ignition has a better chance of flipping scum, lol, after all that. Want to see more posts by them before I make a decision.
Why do you feel like you can read their alignment off of one post? It seems like you are posturing around this read.
Cause it's a scummy post. Third time you've asked that man.
I wasn't exactly sure about what you meant by posturing but google said "intending to mislead others"
Uh, probably misinterpreting this so maybe you can rephrase the posturing I've done or explain what you mean by posturing
By posturing I mean you are positioning around this with your read in a way that looks like you're going to scumread him no matter what he posts based off of the one post at the beginning.
It has an anti-town connotation to it.
In post 125, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
In post 115, Mulch wrote:I think UnaBombah is slightly more likely to be scum cause Cloud has replaced out as scum before.
I do not like that you are pushing this angle at all.
Why? It's a valid thing, he's even said he dosen't like scum in the past and he replaced out in the Alchemist game.
I don't believe people are allowed to replace out of all their scum games, though. They'd get in trouble for that surely. Do you think Cloudkicker is avoiding games where they roll anti-town knowing this?
In post 126, Mulch wrote:I dunno I'm not really getting scummy vibes off you cause I can see where your getting your thoughts but there were like maybe one or two scummy things in that big post, mostly saying I said things that weren't true, which is false, and maybe the attitude which seems pre dispositioned to dislike me, like you already decided you didnt like me and then forced your narrative behind it.
But I guess you can see your reasoning. If you continue to vote me, though, when I've given clarifications on this stuff, you might be scum, cause I think I've been decently transparent.
You are explaining your thoughts, but once again threatening me does not make me want to back off from you, especially when it seems as two-faced as your read on me depending on whether I vote you (which seems to be townreading people who don't scumread you which I believe you outlined as something scummy earlier on.)
I'm not pre dispositioned to dislike you, I don't know what you're getting at with that.
In post 128, Mulch wrote: In post 117, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
In post 112, UnaBombaH wrote:Woo, I am here!
...and now I must go to sleep.
I'll read the thread in ~6hours.
VOTE: MarioManiac4 because last time I followed his lead, we lost the game because I played poorly.
No wait...!
I don't like that you voted MarioManiac4 here - pressure was starting to build up between him and Mulch. I'd also lean more towards Mulch being scum at this point where you posted than Mario.
Lastly, it looks like you are trying to coat your vote as completely random but it falls onto a forming wagon. It feels like you are trying to shirk responsibility for your vote by playing it off as random.
VOTE: UnaBombaH
This is a really shit point here, they were quite obviously doing a random/joking vote so he obviously wasn't choosing beteen me and Mario scum. It was random, I think? Do you actually think scum here would try and just add on to a wagon for the lolz? More importantly, even if they were, they obviously would not be able to keep the vote for long cause they can't justify it, so it dosen't even make sense for them to do it in the first place. Unless he was planning to space out for the next 14 days... there's no point to him doing it as scum.
I'm not sure whether this is a BAD point or a scummy point but this is horrible reasoning for Una scum here.
I think my reasoning is better than yours, where you are scumreading the slot because CloudKicker replaced out.
I think hopping onto a forming wagon early works out for scum, they can't even justify their current vote and you're defending them for it so I don't see how not being able to justify it later down the line is a cause for concern.
I don't think random votes go onto who pressure was building up on at the time. That didn't look random to me.
In post 129, Theta Alpine wrote: In post 107, Yumeko Jabami wrote:
In post 70, Theta Alpine wrote:
VOTE: wavemode
read the rules next time before you vote
since what you did this time will not count according to the rules
mulch that goes for you also but yours does not appear to be correct on first glance so i do not scum read you for it
What makes you vote for wavemode here? Do you think typing 'mariomaker' instead of 'mariomaniac4' was a ploy to avoid voting?
it is kind of in the same vein as fake hammering
misleading
or like how creature voted osuka twice
also seriously read the rules
only one vote per post
Thanks, I'll fix my vote.
VOTE: Mulch
What do you think of post 74? Wavemode fixes his vote after you point it out. I guess what I'm asking is why are you still voting them? Did you think them voting "MarioMaker" was scummy in some way?
To me it looks like a mistake that they correct after you point it out.
