Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

Woohoo, I had prioirty #1!!

And wow, did scum really want treestump....

PeregrineV - Pyramids

Drixx

- Pyramids

Caesar Wills It

- Pyramids

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70406

Scum REALLY wanted that treestump. Too much hype over the game with Pine as the treestump I guess.

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 2.36:

humaneatingmonkey (4): Dark Horse, Sunlit Diamond, Grendel, Eddie Cane
Tchill13 (2): massive, Assemblerotws
Eddie Cane (1): Robbnva
Assemblerotws (1): Ginngie
Korts (1): Tchill13
Robbnva (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Sunlit Diamond (0):
Ginngie (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):

Not Voting: nancy, humaneatingmonkey, Korts

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-29 23:00:00).

Seeking replacement for Sunlit Diamond.

Spoiler: Remaining Posts:

Korts: 62
Ginngie: 63
humaneatingmonkey: 64
Eddie Cane: 65
Sunlit Diamond: 65
Robbnva: 62
Grendel: 62
massive: 63
Dark Horse: 55
Assemblerotws: 68
nancy: 70
Tchill13: 47

[Dark Horse]

Like, honestly, why would Mafia kill you if you actually ARE town? You're too terrified to actually shoot. You're just a named townie.

This feels ridiuculously forced. Sounds a lot like trying to preemptiveley justify scum leaving tchill alive for reasons other than "mislynch bait"

[nancy]

Computer got stolen prodge back when I can

[massive]

I don't understand how you can say I'm not a vig but I might be town.

This is nowhere near what I said. Your argument is that you should be ignored by the town because Mafia would obviously not want to leave you alive at night, since you're a role that can kill them. The counter argument is that you aren't killing anyone. You've made it clear that you're afraid to kill anyone. So why would you believe that Mafia would kill you overnight? It doesn't compute.

Like, honestly, why would Mafia kill you if you actually ARE town? You're too terrified to actually shoot. You're just a named townie.

This feels ridiuculously forced. Sounds a lot like trying to preemptiveley justify scum leaving tchill alive for reasons other than "mislynch bait"

Your argument appears to be "Tchill more likely bad town than scum." What have you seen from Tchill to make you think that my statement could be untrue?

Jeez I pasted these together and evidently I say "your argument" a lot.

[Robbnva]

I'm completely lost this game. Idk who I want to lynch outside of Eddie which doesn't seem likely.

[massive]

Well, let's start with : who would you NOT lynch?

[RadiantCowbells]

Gamma Emerald replaces sunlit diamond! Please welcome them.

[Robbnva]

Tchill probably

[Tchill13]

I would be okay with a korts lynch what do you think about that robbvna?

[Robbnva]

Korts feels like scum to me but can't really put it into words.

Eddie/korts/massive but so many others also. I really can't get into this game. Need a scum flip

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello everyone. Hope we can work well this game.
Robbnva it's nice to see you, haven't played with you since mini 1831, where you played as JFSF.
Of course, can't forget to mention mah boi Grendel, how've you been doing?
I noticed TChill claimed vig but not his kill, I see these possibilities for TChill's position at first glance:
>scum
>town who targeted the jailkeeper's target
>some odd and probably stupid scenario
As for scumreads, didn't like PS early, think Korts might be scum from more recent things, and that's about it.
Will work on in-depth coverage of the game soonish.

[Grendel]

Yo Gamma. You've now surpassed LUV as the player that has shared the same roster as me in the most games. For a while you guys were tied.

In other news I'm pro-doging for a day because I have a lot of interims due tomorrow for class. I need to get that done first.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 1 thoughts:
Persephone's entry feels forced, like they tried to make a big point but fell flat. Robbnva is probably town by reaction; he tries to parse it logically.
Page 2:
HEM seems town at a glance, I noted he went from "I'm gonna observe" to interacting, which feels like town who wanted to try something but got bored.
Massive and TChill switching off PS for Robb feels rather scummy to me
Page 3:
Korts' monkey vote is pretty bad imo, tbh he doesn't seem to be actually scumhunting, just poking at easy targets
PS is feeling a little better, but the vote switches off of them make me wary.

Reads based on content thus far:
Town: Monkey, Robbnva
Scum: Korts
Leanscum: TChill, massive
Nullscum: PS

PEdit: that's kinda cool. BTW I think your advice about sticking to less games so I could apply myself is pretty good, I'm in a few games but I am mostly just playing around one game per site I play on. Only one that defies this is Mafia Universe and even then I'm in very few there due to game speed being faster. I thought it was going to be horrible but it's not too bad. Actually managed to mechanically break a game!

[Dark Horse]

vla until 25th

Your argument appears to be "Tchill more likely bad town than scum." What have you seen from Tchill to make you think that my statement could be untrue?

What? There's a huge difference between "tchill is bad town" and "t chill won't shoot anyone in the future. I'd expect everyone tellibg him what he did last night was stupid would prevent him from doing the same thin again

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 4 thoughts:
nancy seems like town starting out, and btw I think this is going to be my first time having to sort nancy by herself since the last time she was in a hydra (GiF's UPick).
Thinking if Korts is scum maybe TChill wouldn't be and vice versa. Might be wrong but the interactions here feel too pushy to be SvS right now.
Also TChill's explanation of his vote switch is okay but feels kinda hollow for some reason.

@TChill you're reason for not agreeing with the way the PS wagon was built was that you felt Robb built it to try to get towncred right?

Page 5:
Kabooseslot (believe this is Grendel) gets townpoints for their analysis of the PS wagon switch situation, the argument feels on point and I agree a fair amount.
PS' posting about how town is hard feels like it is genuine, based on how they talk about being read as scum being more of a badge of honor than being calling incompetent. Also lol "no squidding idea" can I get a woomy?
Upon further appraisal all the early things I had issues with TChill, massive, and PS about seem to be explained by this page. So PS walks away with a solid townread, TChill gets a variable weak townread, and massive is around null.

Reads at this point:
Town: PS (Eddie), Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill
Scum: Korts

Also I like this format because I can make jokes while not expanding my postcount with each one. I hope I can stick with it.
Probably my last post for the night.
Null: massive

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: humaneatingmonkey
I should take care of this now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 6 thoughts:
TChill's look over Ginngie's ISO makes me curious.

Ginngie, why did you say it was dumb to scumread Korts?

massive is feeling pretty nice on this page.
Page 7:
Ginngie feels a bit sketchy with how he's explaining his post about people scumreading Korts being stupid. My issue is that it implies Korts did something worth townreading, but Ginngie seems to not actually be showing that.
Assemble's reads feel kinda crap too.
Page 8:
Assemble's Robb reasoning is alright but why would he just gloss over that?
TChill's erraticness doesn't feel like it's scummy to me.
massive was looking kinda poor on the page but closer analysis shows that I was reading his posts wrong. His posts are actually pretty good.
Page 9:
Ari's reaction to the vote on him is SHITE and I'm happy everyone else gets this.
And not much else.
Page 10:
Korts shows his age by not knowing Godfather is blacklisted in Normals
Eddie is okay so far

Reads at this point:
Town: Eddie, Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Leanscum: Aristophanes, Ginngie
Scum: Korts

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 11 Thoughts:
Ginngie's pushes here feel horrendous
I think TChill's suggestion to everyone else to look at low content people pushing him was made assuming he'd be lynched
And also the setup for one of my personal favorite tells (regardless of success rate) has appeared so that's fun
Page 12:
Eddie feels pretty good now that he's trying, really wish Robb could drop the tunnel.
Page 13:

@Korts: your case on TChill feels a bit like trying to come up with scum reasoning for every post, which feels forced. What was the intention here?

Still not a lot on the read change front.

[Korts]

Okay, I'm finally sitting down to recalibrate. I'm gonna have to do this in portions though, because I have a bunch of other shit to deal with too.

VOTE: unvote

Reread notes - page 1-3 - The Percy wagon builds up

• Robb's post 14, after Percy repeated her silly first vote reason in an intentionally silly way, is way too serious and immediate a response (coming within 5 minutes of Percy's post). Then Percy's appeal to RVS is dismissed with some boggling logic in 16.
  This is the molehill at the bottom of the mountain that was the Percy vs. Robb fight, and even though I agree with Dark Horse's 18 that Percy's dismissal of Robb sounded forced, I think Robb's reply is even more so - "you didn't RVS" is already a pretty unjustified argument, because RVS is a game state that dictates arbitrary voting, and not any individual action, which means that any vote in RVS is, by definition, participation in RVS; and the follow-up argument of "when you don't RVS you need to make sense" is just downright empty rhetoric.
  This could just be Robb trying to move the game forward, but it's a very shaky foundation to have started building on.
   
  
• Based on just this initial exchange, Kaboose and Dark Horse immediately jump on Percy's wagon, which I find weird. When I was first reading through this exchange, I automatically parsed it as town v. town, but if I had to choose a less defensible side, it would be Robb's. (I say less defensible instead of scummy, because again, this is early game activity.)
   
  
• Meanwhile, Tchill's post 20 does not take a side in the Percy/Robb spat, but does riff on Percy's silly "we must have blood" reason to start an unrelated wagon on monkey. Nancy immediately takes a mediating role between Robb and Percy, asking both to elaborate on their positions. monkey puts additional pressure on Percy, and asks Robb seemingly pointed questions (though when I ask him about it, he seems to echo Robb's reasoning instead of questioning it). Then he gets gratingly cocky in response to Ginggie's townAF read on him - "how much do you trust that read" still rubs me wrong, even if Ginggie's post warranted questions itself.
   
  
• massive and Tchill jump on Percy, both of them just openly riding the wagon.
   
  
• Percy's defense against Robb in 42 is sound. In response, Robb doubles down on his bullshit logic in 45, and gets immediate heat from massive and Tchill, who are voting together in immediate succession again.
   
  
• monkey makes cases on Percy and Tchill, changes vote to Tchill, then a couple posts later back to Percy. His case against Percy is pretty weak though, as it's built on the "it was a real reason, not a joke reason" argument, when, come on - how the fuck do you read "we must have blood" as a real reason?

This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.

Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh My Korts scumread has been weakening, I've just failed to document it
Ginngie, though he's been sitting around leanscum, feels worse at this point

[Gamma Emerald]

That was made before that post and I was doing other things between when I wrote it and when I posted it fyi
Also to try and improve my play I'm going to not talk about what I think of that post yet. I have the issue of getting sidetracked in catch-up phases by responding to current things, so I want to curb that here since I'm working on my incessant posting too.

[Korts]

@Korts: your case on TChill feels a bit like trying to come up with scum reasoning for every post, which feels forced. What was the intention here?

I'm sure a proper PBPA feels forced nowadays, but that's how I learned to play the game. If you're sure of a scum read, you gather your evidence and present your case. I highlighted any of Tchill's posts where I could see the reflection of a scummy mindset; that that ended up being most of his posts is circumstantial.

[Korts]

Yeah, you're right though - it's better to not keep responding to each other while we're both in the process of a read-through

[Robbnva]

Robb doubles down on his bullshit logic in 45,

Gtfoh with this bullshit logic nonsense.

[Korts]

I will not.