Large Normal 206: World Record Mafia! (GAME OVER)

[Nero Cain]

I could get behind a una "randomly RVSing the leading wagon doesn't seem like true" a lot easier than whatever you think the other guy did.

Though true story, I was once in a game and I used the same reasoning to tunnel on a guy that flipped town. Moral of the story. There's a ton of trash players on site.

[Dunkerdoodles]

mulch if i sheep you will you townread me?

I'll townread you anyway, mason partner!

VOTE: IgnitionUSC

wooo

VOTE: IgnitionUSC

[Mulch]

IgnitionUSMC is getting replaced -_-


Well, hopefully it's someone like...Carcalilly that's super obvious to read. If it's RC the paranoia will be unbearable lol

[osuka]

una is obvtown

[Theta Alpine]

oh hey the person i am voting is on

dunker why do you think flavor leaf is scum

p-edit
okay why did you think that flavor leaf is scum

[Yumeko Jabami]

Did you realize you were joining a wagon when you were voting for MarioManiac4? Did you know other people were voting him and pressure was building?
Trying to downplay your vote by saying it wasn't "dangerous" is giving me bad feelings. It's like you're trying to gas-light me.

Don't know what gas-lighting is, but I'm probably not doing it..?
I have a habit of arguing every point made against me, whether it's light-hearted/RVS or not, so me "downplaying" here is because I have no other routes to take yet.
Every RVS vote has an implied "downplay"-aspect to it, if I understood your use of the term correctly.
I hadn't read the thread at that point.

Gas-lighting is an abusive method where the other person questions their sanity. In this case I used the phrase because of the way you tried to make every point made against you seem like nothing was of substance.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you have no routes aside from downplaying - are you saying you're downplaying points made against you only because you have nothing else to be doing?
I don't understand what you mean when you say RVS votes have an implied downplay aspect - could you clarify?

What do you mean you say you're disappointed that 'they' are not running each other down? I assume you mean MarioManiac4 and Mulch? What are you hoping for?

I said that in the sense that I probably can't ever read either of them well enough to pin them as scum. (or town for that matter)
They could be either to me, every time, and that is why I'm hoping that they duke it out between themselves and I'll try to analyze from the sidelines.
I don't have the mental fortitude to take either of them on.
So it's better if they sort each other out, and I'll try to analyze their interaction more than their overall posting.

Don't know if that makes any sense to you, but that is how I see it.

Do you think it is worth paying special attention to MarioManiac4 and Mulch this game?
What do you hope to gain by analyzing them if you think you won't be able to read them?

I'm noticing a pattern in your post so far - you've been making a lot of excuses to try to justify yourself (examples: "I hadn't read the thread at that point.", "I don't have the mental fortitude to take either of them on.", "I probably can't ever read either of them well enough to pin them as scum.")
What is the deal with this? To me it looks like you're spending a decent amount of effort to try to explain away presumably a lack of sorting that nobody called you out on.
What is your interpretation here?

I'm concerned that you seem to be joining the new fast forming wagon - the reason you give feels like you are trying to over justify your vote. I believe this is similar to the gas-lighting earlier.

I'm "joining the FL-wagon" because I don't townread him currently. I already explained that in his case, I find lack of contribution more damning than the people I haven't played with before.
Why quote-mark the above?
Because I didn't join the wagon for the sake of joining a wagon. When I do, I'm happy to announce it.
There are moments when it's better to just join a wagon that your townreads have formed, because focusing votes often turns out to be more effective than splitting them.

And yet again, no idea about the gas-lighting.

If you're asking why dangerous was in quotes, it's because it is the word you used yourself to describe what your vote wasn't.
You explain that you are voting Flavor Leaf because you are expecting more from them, but later on in the game Flavor Leaf seems to be calling out that this thinking on them is false and that they have lurked in a pretty recent game.

Here are the relevant quotes:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72770

Just want to point out here, I was in this large game from the very beginning, and I had 22 posts. Mulch was in that game.

I came in around Day 4, Day 5, called out the remaining scum team perfectly, then got night killed. I don't do pressure votes. If you all want to lynch me, that's on you. I stay out of early games.

Nero barely talks in the PT lol

The last time I'm going to ask: is this for real?

Can Nero confirm this one more time?

I even had to double-check the wiki to see that Normal game-Masons are always Town, so if you are, I think I'll just sheep you to victory.

I'm concerned that while you explain that this is unusual for Flavor Leaf, when he presents evidence otherwise you don't seem to react to it in any way - all the while you are still voting him. You responded to Mulch at the same time. To me this series of events doesn't add u - I'd expect you to comment and either admit Flavor Leaf is correct and your vote is misplaced or go against Flavor Leaf and double down and show why he is wrong, but you don't do anything. It looks to me like you have been trying to give me the runaround and that you do not care for your vote much at all.

VOTE: UnaBombaH

I honestly have a bad feeling creeping up about you (Yumeko).
Only wall-posting and mainly questions to others makes it feel like you are interrogating everyone, and yet you yourself don't give much content for others to analyze.

On the surface your questioning seems towny (because it gives people content that helps gamesolving), but I want to see you commit to a read yourself soon enough.

I assume you are an alt, care to link your main so that I can see how you normally interact?

I don't think this is a fair point to make, I've done more than ask questions, I've given opinions and took a stance. I believe there is a lot to work with if you wanted to sort me.
I don't think saying I haven't committed to a read is fair either, I believe I've outlined my thoughts on Mulch quite clearly and I have trouble believing you would have forgotten about it - you commented that pages 5-6 were taken up my Mulch and I, did you not read what I wrote? If not, why are you assuming I haven't given any reads? If you have read what I wrote, do you not think I had a read on Mulch?

because he seems to contradict your interpretation of events and I'm wondering why you didn't call him out on it.

not really. I mean obviously, you think he's scum right? but if he were town that means his thoughts about Mario were honest.

Also, me being wary of scum sheeping and wanting others to sheep me on something that I want dead are not at all the same thing and have no relationship with each other. (though I hear that they occasionally hookup)

Dave is just dumb. Yumeko is maybe scum for sheeping just a stupid thing.

I'm not sure that you really answered what I was asking - Mulch wrote that he was not trying to get MarioManiac4 lynched, you wrote that Mulch was "hard pushing" MarioManiac4. Do you think Mulch was trying to get MarioManiac4 lynched, even though he says he wasn't, or were you mistaken when you said he was "hard pushing"?

OK Mario is either scum or a power role, this isn't his vanulla townie tone

How do you determine his "vanulla townie town"?
What are some differences you expect to see in a game where MarioManiac4 is a power role and one where he is a vanilla town, and why do you think they apply to this game. Why did you feel comfortable revealing this information that you suspect MarioManiac4 to possibly be a power role?

Mario's revenge vote on mulch and "knowing" I'm town is concerning. I don't know flavor leafs normal playstyle but he seems not interested in being active and for a day 1 you would think he would at least want to stop his wagon or analyze those pushing it. "The go ahead and lynch me, whatever" is a slight scummy stance. O. The flip side the wagon for flavor seems to have happened pretty fast and unless it's a scum bussing there is probably scum inside of that wagon.

VOTE: MarioManiac4 The only way you know I'm town that early is if you aren't one of us.

Still on a 2 day super busy work schedule so I won't be able to check in much. Saying that I'd also like to see some of.our inactives stop slacking if they want to actually help find scum, If not, I think the rest of us town will have a right to be supicious of you

Why do you say Mario's vote on Mulch was a revenge vote? I see that they have provided reasoning behind their vote and from the context of the thread I wouldn't say it was a revenge vote.
What do you think of Mulch's "revenge vote" on myself? Seen here:

VOTE: Yumeko

I'm not putting the most effort I've ever put into a town game and getting tunneled like this when half the things you are telling me is that you disagree rather than it's scummy.

Unless you unvote, I am vote parking this for the entire game.

What is your opinion on this? Did you miss this?
Once again, I disagree that if Flavor Leaf there is probably scum voting him. I don't think it's any more likely that scum would be voting him at this point than not.
I thought it was odd that you seem to almost blame inactives at the end of this post, what are you trying to prove here? It's also notable that I didn't think you had done much yourself before making this post.

He is too self aware and I don't feel like a villa would be pressed to the point of puedo claiming vt so early?

b/c he was like "oh just lynch me" and you think that's a VT/scum fake claiming VT?

I mean.

He's either scum who made that line, or town who inadvertently claimed vt. You don't advocate for your lynch as a power role

Why do you feel the need to say this? It seems to me that this sort of speculation can only hurt the town - what was your plan with it?

Does post 200 seem forced to you, creature and Nero?

I'm not sure that forced is the right word - My thinking is that they are accusing MarioManiac4 of doing something to you that you did to me without addressing what you did. It feels in-genuine in this case because they are also decidedly siding with you.
Creature, did you miss this post or did you decide not to reply for other reasons? I see you post later without addressing this.
Ignition, did you not have any thoughts on this as well?

Does post 200 seem forced to you, creature and Nero?

From this I'm pretty sure Mulch is town

I wouldn't draw that conclusion from this post - they didn't explain their own thoughts on the post and never followed it up, and shortly after they're back on MarioManiac4.

Does post 200 seem forced to you, creature and Nero?

From this I'm pretty sure Mulch is town

Why lol

From this I'm pretty sure Mulch is scum

i am pretty sure flip-flopping is a scum tell
but i am also pretty sure this is a joke

town usually do not change their mind within the same page
also the fact that you said lets say it was 100% serious practically confirms to me that it was a joke at the time of writing

Why in your opinion is flip-flopping a scum tell?
I have to disagree, especially early on in the game when a lot of new information is coming in without anything in the past I think it is normal to not hold a fixed position.
In this particular instance, I think wavemode did jump the gun to call Mulch town and then scum - I wouldn't say flip-flopping is a scum tell though.

Well after the first five pages of nonsense I wasn't expecting two pages of wallposts that I glazed over.

Why didn't you say anything until I prodded you?

Massive, did you not feel like this was worth responding to, or did you miss it after your catch up?

@Yumeko; Sure, it could be faked by scum. Most things could. Is Creature likely to be faking this? No in my opinion. I've seen Creature as scum before. He basically just disappears.

I said I townread Ignition because imo he was less likely to be scum than everyone else (No, Mulch, that doesn't mean everyone else was scummy) so it was true to some extent, and I wanted to get the game going because I didn't see anything scummy at the time.

Yumeko, do you townread anyone?

Right now, I'm wondering if Ignition is legitimately dumbtelling with his recent posts or if he is scum reaching.

I'd say I townread davesaz right now, I liked a lot of his posts where he asks questions and explains his thoughts, specifically 132, 156, 250, 251, and 324

What do you think of Creature's recent posting? Here:

I was talking about MM4 wagon.

He may not be fully town, but I doubt his wagon would be productive.

Just warning, I might go lurky this game because I'm not getting good reads.

How would you interpret him reading you as "not fully town"?
Does post 329 make you question your read on him, due to him giving a reason to be posting less this game? (Notably he actually started posting even more, though.)

Creature - what exactly do you mean when you say MarioManiac4 is not fully town? What do you think of the people who have townread you for activity so far?

i mean the point of me voting him was to get him to post and give content
and he has at least done the former so
VOTE: eddie cane
going down my list of people who have not posted
the other two on that list are peregrinev and zoki77 if anyone wanted to know
though there are a few people who have only stated that they will read up and post later

I don't see the point of voting people who have not posted.

I actually agree with pushing on slackers as scum like to hide there

Mario didn't freak out about my "you know I'm town" like scum would to shy away from having votes put on them.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: [/unvote]

I also agree with the that town usually don't flip flop on votes, within the same page or span of a couple posts. Where as scum will willingly bandwagon and then get off the wagon at the last moment

Hmm, I don't think scum bandwagoning and then getting off at the last moment really applies here? The flip-flop wasn't over a wagon, and it was right after it began.
Do you not think that the people who have not posted so far could just not be here - and getting replaced? Will that change your reads on them?
Something else seems off about this post, not sure what. You kind of feel scummy to me.

If Ignition is scum, he deserves an Oscar.

What are you saying here? I'm not seeing anything to make me think they've played a good scum game so far.

can you point me to dumb gambits and fakeclaims made after page 2

Is my hyperbolic exaggeration AI to you?

It feels like you aren't really engaging with the game? Even this post seems to want to avoid answering for something.

@una: i think i'm ready to trust you though you're probs not ready to trust me given that i haven't put any content into this game yet. work with me here

what do you think of the mario vs mulch situation


pedit: I'm not role fishing i'm just pointing out that i find it weird that you claimed mason in the third page
i also find it weird that you guys have no daytalk

flavor, read 344

una is obvtown. I think it's also kinda funny that you read theta as town because something about her is off-putting

Can you explain to me why you feel UnaBombaH is town? I'm not understanding your read here and I disagree with it.

OK Mario is either scum or a power role, this isn't his vanulla townie tone

I kinda tr this line given the fact I don't know why scum Mulch would say this but then it begs the question, Why are you looking for power roles in the first place or make the statement?

Mario's revenge vote on mulch and "knowing" I'm town is concerning. I don't know flavor leafs normal playstyle but he seems not interested in being active and for a day 1 you would think he would at least want to stop his wagon or analyze those pushing it. "The go ahead and lynch me, whatever" is a slight scummy stance. O. The flip side the wagon for flavor seems to have happened pretty fast and unless it's a scum bussing there is probably scum inside of that wagon.

VOTE: MarioManiac4 The only way you know I'm town that early is if you aren't one of us.

Still on a 2 day super busy work schedule so I won't be able to check in much. Saying that I'd also like to see some of.our inactives stop slacking if they want to actually help find scum, If not, I think the rest of us town will have a right to be supicious of you

this feels slimy you're pushing on something like this is random and weird and trying to put on the "We're town not you! vibe is gross

i mean the point of me voting him was to get him to post and give content
and he has at least done the former so
VOTE: eddie cane
going down my list of people who have not posted
the other two on that list are peregrinev and zoki77 if anyone wanted to know
though there are a few people who have only stated that they will read up and post later

This is scum to me he's voting slots that aren't posting and not doing anything the "oh post content" line is weak because at some point people will post content your vote will do nothing to change that it's 1 vote in a 21 person game. I think this is scum trying to look like they're doing something when really It's not much at all

VOTE: Theta Alpine

I guess I can see where you're coming from when you say Theta would be trying to look like they are doing something, but why do you think scum can't just actually do something? Why do they have to cheaply look like they're doing something? There are a lot of people who haven't really gotten into the game at this point as well. I'm not ready to call Theta Alpine scum from their posting so far.

FOS: Mary Saomote

For defending lurking.

Lurking is scummy, what's so hard to see about that?

I don't agree with this, I don't think Mary Saomote is stopping anyone who is lurking from being lynched right now. I agree with her about being in disagreement with Theta's voting.

I'm actually going to retract the Mason claim cause I'm starting to scumread Nero lol

Was super confident day 1 and thought we could create masons out of nothing but he's being a bit like large 203 lol

Did you not think that claiming Masons could backfire in some way? Maybe causing a real Mason to counter claim you, or denying town from seriously looking at nero cain? Why did you think this was a good idea? It looks to me that you added a lot of confusion to the thread.

When I return:

thoughts on the flavorleaf wagon
Nero explains his secret scum read

VOTE: Mary

Can we get that explanation to go along with the vote? I don't think Mary Saotome is a good vote at this time.
Also, remember that you have to type in the full name or it won't count as a vote.

Just warning, I might go lurky this game because I'm not getting good reads.

this post seems off
i don't think it's easy to get good reads from 14 pages

I'm not sure that I've seen you try so far, though. What are your thoughts so far? How much of the game have you read?

Una is obvious town, so is Dunker, we aren't masons, and Mary is towny.


Massive is playing weird, I think would be a good wagon. Just cause your lynchbair dosen't mean your town.

This again, can you explain why UnaBombaH is "obvious town"? I'm not seeing any explanation and I feel like I would want them as our lynch for this day phase.
Why do you think it is a good idea to push on someone with 4 posts? You didn't explain how massive was playing weird but I'm seeing you try to push this agenda through.

Mulch is probably town, but he's probably worth an investigation, though, because I think his town and scum game are basically indistinguishable.

I'm lean town on you, because I don't see the wagon on me as scummy since I hadn't really posted, and now your early game pressure comment along with realizing you were doing it for that reason, is pretty solid. I will admit; I'm generally pretty good at getting town reads. I just finished a few games where that was the case and I successfully poe'd two of the games out. Then I died the next night. Mulch, I believe you saw these? I won one of them, lost the other. I was VT equivalent in both.

From what I've seen I've been liking your posting today, I wasn't expecting much with your response to the early wagon. Can you explain why you have Mulch as leaning town?

[Dunkerdoodles]

these wall posts r really annoying to read :/

[Mulch]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[osuka]

holy shit

[Dunkerdoodles]

i'll join in eventually. If you want to quick lynch me, go for it, then analyze my wagon. don't feel like putting the effort in right now to defend. Like, I just got four votes and I hadn't even posted yet. I've only read this page. I'll get to it in a bit.

this opening post doesn't come from town imo

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually am okay with the Mary vote.if you think una's town, I'm willing to trust your read on that for the day. Dunker or Mary for me.

[Nero Cain]

I rather have wall content than like 99%% of what Creature like players post.

[Mulch]

i'll join in eventually. If you want to quick lynch me, go for it, then analyze my wagon. don't feel like putting the effort in right now to defend. Like, I just got four votes and I hadn't even posted yet. I've only read this page. I'll get to it in a bit.

this opening post doesn't come from town imo

agreed it's super scummy. But like, yeah. I think Flavor has been townier with future posts

[Flavor Leaf]

i'll join in eventually. If you want to quick lynch me, go for it, then analyze my wagon. don't feel like putting the effort in right now to defend. Like, I just got four votes and I hadn't even posted yet. I've only read this page. I'll get to it in a bit.

this opening post doesn't come from town imo

I mean. Okay. I lurk out of every game in the beginning. I'm a Poe player.

[Nero Cain]

agreed it's super scummy. But like, yeah. I think Flavor has been townier with future posts

[Dunkerdoodles]

ik, i'm not full on scumreading him, just mentioning a scummy post

[Flavor Leaf]

If you think I'm scummy, then why'd you invite me?

[Flavor Leaf]

I vote me, but if you could invite me to a masonry, you know, that's cool too.

[Dunkerdoodles]

sure u can join

[Flavor Leaf]

K, I don't know how to speak right now. I'll be on later

[Mulch]

Let's wagon Ignition!

[Theta Alpine]

Does post 200 seem forced to you, creature and Nero?

From this I'm pretty sure Mulch is town

Why lol

From this I'm pretty sure Mulch is scum

i am pretty sure flip-flopping is a scum tell
but i am also pretty sure this is a joke

town usually do not change their mind within the same page
also the fact that you said lets say it was 100% serious practically confirms to me that it was a joke at the time of writing

Why in your opinion is flip-flopping a scum tell?
I have to disagree, especially early on in the game when a lot of new information is coming in without anything in the past I think it is normal to not hold a fixed position.
In this particular instance, I think wavemode did jump the gun to call Mulch town and then scum - I wouldn't say flip-flopping is a scum tell though.

you know i never actually said it was my opinion
i was technically just stating that it is recognized as a scum tell
like in https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia
it would fall under wishy-washy voting

the second post it was just that going from a town-read to a scum-read after a single post requires a lot of reasoning that wavemode failed to provide

[Mulch]

I am tempted to wagon the wallposter

[Theta Alpine]

dunker are you ignoring me

[Mulch]

Honestly super townie: Unabombah, Dunkerdoodles, Creature, Mulch

Towny enough: Nero, twoinamillion, osuka, Theta, Flavor

Stuck in the null zone: Eddie, Daevs, excession, peregirne, yumeko, Mary, Zoki, Flairs

Honestly pretty scummy: Ignition, Massive, Mario