Large Normal 206: World Record Mafia! (GAME OVER)

[osuka]

there are things you should take at face value and there are things you shouldn't. The retraction is one of the things you should, even though it has consequences

the fakeclaim (and subsequent retraction) is a very nuanced play but the retraction is the one part that despite implying a lot, is p obviously true

[MarioManiac4]

can you point me to dumb gambits and fakeclaims made after page 2

Is my hyperbolic exaggeration AI to you?

Yes because it feels like you're using it as an excuse to give one unsupported read and blame everyone else for it.

[Mary Saotome]

FOS: Mary Saomote

For defending lurking.

I'm not defending lurking I'm saying that voting lurkers for the sake of pressure/getting them to vote is pointless and somewhat anti town

No it isn't. Lurking is anti-town but completely NAI

This lurking is NAI unless you have meta on a user that normally lurks as town/scum there's a dif between anti town and scummy (now

this

you can call defending lurking)

Mulch and Nero and Mario are town, mary and wave are scum.

He caught us Mary. Do you want to shoot him or should I?

Oh me please I want the first go

Go massive or mario imo

Why Massive? And can you answer my question from my other post please

So the reason that I voted flavor is 'cause the other night when this game started I saw him post elsewhere and not here and I just thought that was a little strange. I mean it obviously not great reasoning but I figured it was worth early game pressure. At the same time I felt like

Are you saying that the mario wagon isn't "Doing things." Can you tell me the dif between what you're doing with the flavor wagon vs the Mario wagon?

The difference is that I know what

I'M DOING

. This is a silly comparison I think.

And you have no right to say the people from Mario don't know what there doing your point is null.

I guess I can see where you're coming from when you say Theta would be trying to look like they are doing something, but why do you think scum can't just actually do something? Why do they have to cheaply look like they're doing something?

The way it's worded is one of the biggest pings for me him telling us "I'm going on ____ next" it feels super LAMIST and an excuse to get out of scumhunting

[Mary Saotome]

I actually am okay with the Mary vote.if you think una's town, I'm willing to trust your read on that for the day. Dunker or Mary for me.

Why Dunk? He's pretty null for me

@wallposter: una is obvtown because meta

Talk to me on this? Can you give a bit more detail without the whole meta

I Mary have graced this thread and will now read I know you've been waiting for me but be calm.

VOTE: flavorleaf
Can't argue with that

going to read

but Mulch can you try to make your posts longer? you have 1/3rd of the thread it makes it harder to read.

these just felt kinda stall-y, idk.

Are you saying that the mario wagon isn't "Doing things." Can you tell me the dif between what you're doing with the flavor wagon vs the Mario wagon?

and this is just kinda dumb. Like I was pushing Flavor for ~reasons~ and me knowing what I'm doing has absolutely nothing to do with the Mario wagon and this whole thing feels like she's playing mediator between me and Dave.

I guess they were gonna stallish posts because I was gonna read then went and did other things but I don't get why the whole stall thing is scummy to you. Where does Dave come into the question I'm just questioning you because of what I stated in my other post

you mean I'm really not a mason?!?

Yes you are partner we're just doing that little distance thing remember?

[osuka]

@wallposter: una is obvtown because meta

Talk to me on this? Can you give a bit more detail without the whole meta

No I can't

You're asking for an explanation of a meta read without the meta. That's textbook stupid, like room temperature iq levels of stupid

[Mary Saotome]

@wallposter: una is obvtown because meta

Talk to me on this? Can you give a bit more detail without the whole meta

No I can't

You're asking for an explanation of a meta read without the meta. That's textbook stupid, like room temperature iq levels of stupid

I was asking if you could show anything at all that points to them being town I'm not going to blindly trust your word.

[Flavor Leaf]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72770

Just want to point out here, I was in this large game from the very beginning, and I had 22 posts. Mulch was in that game.

I came in around Day 4, Day 5, called out the remaining scum team perfectly, then got night killed. I don't do pressure votes. If you all want to lynch me, that's on you. I stay out of early games.

And scum won that game.

yep, because they didn't listen to my perfect reads. (i was kind of surprised they were so perfect, because things usually aren't so easily that clear). This is an irrelevant post so I gave it an irrelevant answer.

That isn't irrelevant at all. There is a reason nobody sheeped you. That said you're playing now so it really doesn't matter too much.

nah, they did later.

[UnaBombaH]

Yumeko Wars - Episode 2 - Wall Strikes Back (also,

Mulch

Mulch

Mulch

Mulch

Mulch

Mulch

)

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you have no routes aside from downplaying - are you saying you're downplaying points made against you only because you have nothing else to be doing?
I don't understand what you mean when you say RVS votes have an implied downplay aspect - could you clarify?

Ech, I'll try to explain my thoughts on RVS-votes. (no idea why I'm asked to do this tbh )

What I mean when I say that "every RVS-vote has an implied downplay aspect"?

No matter what reason a player gives when voting in RVS, it can always be downplayed by "it's only a random vote".

Now some people tend to give reason to their votes as early as page one, and sometimes they are just blatant jokes, sometimes they are erring on the side of actual reasons.
And yet, people can always say, "it's only page 2/3/4..."
Sometimes the voter even backtracks themselves on their RVS votes by downplaying them "I was only joking".
So me saying something along the lines of "it wasn't dangerous", was my "downplay" for that vote, even though I could have just kept repeating "it was random".
Maybe this is where you are splitting hairs? (I'm honestly not sure what I'm missing)

Do you think it is worth paying special attention to MarioManiac4 and

Mulch

this game?
What do you hope to gain by analyzing them if you think you won't be able to read them?

Read their latest interactions.
I think it is enough said, I now have a slight townlean on both of them.
Just because they committed to an interaction, where they both have the ability to provoke/analyze each other (better than I could).
So

THEY GET TO ANALYZE THE PLAYER

and

I GET TO ANALYZE THE INTERACTION

.
Clear enough for you?

I'm noticing a pattern in your post so far - you've been making a lot of excuses to try to justify yourself (examples: "I hadn't read the thread at that point.", "I don't have the mental fortitude to take either of them on.", "I probably can't ever read either of them well enough to pin them as scum.")
What is the deal with this? To me it looks like you're spending a decent amount of effort to try to explain away presumably a lack of sorting that nobody called you out on.
What is your interpretation here?

It all leads back to my childhood and...no, I'm just unsure about my ability to read tones, I try to stick to logic and interpreting interactions.
I feel like I get better at the game when I see the bigger picture and fewer players trying to force their actions to match their agenda. Thats when there has to be holes in logic or contradictions.

I'm concerned that while you explain that this is unusual for Flavor Leaf, when he presents evidence otherwise you don't seem to react to it in any way - all the while you are still voting him. You responded to

Mulch

at the same time. To me this series of events doesn't add u - I'd expect you to comment and either admit Flavor Leaf is correct and your vote is misplaced or go against Flavor Leaf and double down and show why he is wrong, but you don't do anything. It looks to me like you have been trying to give me the runaround and that you do not care for your vote much at all.

Or just that I was going to watch GoT and then go to sleep?
You are trying way too hard to read more in to my actions than there actually is.
I'm intending to tackle my voting-position today, and I'll actually make a post on FL after I have chewed this "oh so lovely" wall of yours.

I don't think this is a fair point to make, I've done more than ask questions, I've given opinions and took a stance. I believe there is a lot to work with if you wanted to sort me.
I don't think saying I haven't committed to a read is fair either, I believe I've outlined my thoughts on

Mulch

quite clearly and I have trouble believing you would have forgotten about it - you commented that pages 5-6 were taken up my

Mulch

and I, did you not read what I wrote? If not, why are you assuming I haven't given any reads? If you have read what I wrote, do you not think I had a read on

Mulch

?

I never said you don't have a read on Mulch.
What I was trying to get through, was that you are posting these huge walls that consist mostly of questions to everyone in the game.
So you have a read on one player? Good for you.
I have so far given my stance on two, and I intend to give more after this post, hoping you do the same.

I'm not sure that you really answered what I was asking -

Mulch

wrote that he was not trying to get MarioManiac4 lynched, you wrote that

Mulch

was "hard pushing" MarioManiac4. Do you think

Mulch

was trying to get MarioManiac4 lynched, even though he says he wasn't, or were you mistaken when you said he was "hard pushing"?

[UnaBombaH]

OK, so my thoughts on FL so far:

i'll join in eventually. If you want to quick lynch me, go for it, then analyze my wagon. don't feel like putting the effort in right now to defend. Like, I just got four votes and I hadn't even posted yet. I've only read this page. I'll get to it in a bit.

First the silence, then this is what he entered with.
Not getting Town!FL from this, and actually sniffing potential scum!FL. His content (no matter if he is invested or not) is always informative/analytical, even if the post itself would be short.

On the opinion of massive, from what I see/know about him, he should never be an early game lynch. He posts not too often, but he does post and gives thoughts when he has them. I generally like to hold off from lynching mislynch bait players/less active by meta players until more info and more of their agenda comes through.

This should come from town!FL.
He isn't afraid to take an opposite stance towards a player that hasn't yet committed much to the game, even if it would be easier to join a wagon or not to comment at all.

Fair enough. Mulch, we need to figure out how to town read each other so we can have a town bloc strong of 4.

This isn't typical town!FL from what I have seen.
I see FL as a strong individual who don't need no blocs.
Although this could be him being "lazy" for now, so he is looking for a secure ride to later days where he can gamesolve (isn't that what he claimed to do?)

Mulch is probably town, but he's probably worth an investigation, though, because I think his town and scum game are basically indistinguishable.

I'm lean town on you, because I don't see the wagon on me as scummy since I hadn't really posted, and now your early game pressure comment along with realizing you were doing it for that reason, is pretty solid. I will admit; I'm generally pretty good at getting town reads. I just finished a few games where that was the case and I successfully poe'd two of the games out. Then I died the next night. Mulch, I believe you saw these? I won one of them, lost the other. I was VT equivalent in both.

..and NOW we are in Townsville.
But this...

How about we all pick up town reads on people or give reason not to vote.

@Mulch - look at massive's other games; I don't think he ever looks town day 1. He's someone who excels late mid game/late game.

...and....

I actually am okay with the Mary vote.if you think una's town, I'm willing to trust your read on that for the day. Dunker or Mary for me.

...this are not so much.
I mean, they are pretty null as far as I can read tone (and I honestly can't very far), but they also lack his usual drive.

Maybe I'll just have to trust FL's early game being slow, because I have seen what he can do in the later parts of the game.
IF he is town, we could definitely use him there.

I'd like to hear from the other people currently voting for FL, how they see his current situation.
For now, I'll UNVOTE: Flavor Leaf and make a readslist.

[UnaBombaH]

{osuka, Mulch, MarioManiac4}

This group is almost bound to shake, depending on future interactions between Mario and Mulch. So far I'm cool with both. I have the best feeling on osuka that I have ever had in a game so far, so I'm a little paranoid (surprise surprise!), but strongly townread him for now.

{TwoInAMillion, wavemode, Mary Soatome, Nero Cain}

My townleans, these have provided at least something solid I have agreed upon, and have not pinged my scumradar. TiaM is here because I have seen him derping around like this before, I don't think he is scum here.

{Flairs, davesaz, Dunkerdoodles, Zoki77, PeregrineV, Excession}

NULL. Not much/any content, or at least not any tone that I have been able to read.

{Creature, Eddie Cane, massive}

NULL-1. Basicly same as above, but the way they have provided little content is the part that rubs me the wrong way. For example Creature basicly announcing he is gonna lurk isn't cool in my books. Eddie Cane, WHERE ART THOU?

{Theta Alpine}

Lost in time and space.....Not exactly valid to place as null because has provided answers and questions alike, but super hard for me to place right now.

{Flavor Leaf, IgnitionUSMC}

Scumleans. Flavor might be elevating higher quite easily if his future content feels like his normal self. Ignition replacing out is probably NAI, but the timing makes it look bad, especially when I had just started to pay more attention to him.

{Yumeko Jabami}

Phoney-town. (or a very heavy player to deal with if actually town) Poses a lot of questions (which is normally great in creating content), but places them in huge walls and nitpicks everything. I do NOT get a towney vibe from this sort of.."interrogating style". I like to pose a lot of questions myself, but I don't think they hold value, if people find it hard to A) find them b) answer to them with simple formatting C) feel like they need to explain every single word they use.

[UnaBombaH]

@una: i think i'm ready to trust you though you're probs not ready to trust me given that i haven't put any content into this game yet. work with me here

what do you think of the mario vs mulch situation

I just noticed this.

I do not know why it works like this between us, but I also feel like I can trust you this game

I think Mario vs Mulch is currently TvT to me.
I wanted to see them interact just because they are two "heavy-hitters" in my books, and it's easier for me to analyze their interaction than try to analyze them.
I feel like you, Mulch and Mario are my "trusted townies" for now, I do not see a scenario where all of you would be scum.
And I trust that any of you would catch on to one another, if there'd be any..shady business

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm a little suspicious of Una. We only have 1 completed game together, it was a newbie, and he was dead before I replaced into the game, so I'm not really sure what is meant when he states my "usual self".

[UnaBombaH]

I'm a little suspicious of Una. We only have 1 completed game together, it was a newbie, and he was dead before I replaced into the game, so I'm not really sure what is meant when he states my "usual self".

I have studied you extensively!

I don't know whether you are new to this community, but I know many experienced players around here value your town-play.
Maybe I am expecting too much of you..?

[Flavor Leaf]

I only have 3 completed games on site, haha. Fair enough, though. I'll take the compliment.

[UnaBombaH]

I only have 3 completed games on site, haha. Fair enough, though. I'll take the compliment.

Your posting style is very distinct, and you are good in making compelling cases.
It doesn't matter whether you are always right or not (although I get why you like to "brag" about being correct), but you are good at drawing conclusions and leading your own investigation (at least when you are town).

So my earlier suspicions of you were because I was wondering whether you are scared to show your posting extensively as scum..

[Excession]

Slow down guys, give a body time to read at least!

This must surely rank amongst the worst posts I've ever seen.

Woo, I am here!

...and now I must go to sleep.

I'll read the thread in ~6hours.

VOTE: MarioManiac4 because last time I followed his lead, we lost the game because I played poorly.

No wait...!

I don't like that you voted MarioManiac4 here - pressure was starting to build up between him and Mulch. I'd also lean more towards Mulch being scum at this point where you posted than Mario.
Lastly, it looks like you are trying to coat your vote as completely random but it falls onto a forming wagon. It feels like you are trying to shirk responsibility for your vote by playing it off as random.

vote: UnaBombaH

Despite the post explicitly stating that he has not read the thread you criticise it for not being based on things that could only be gleaned by

reading the thread

? (And also beause it does not share your opinion?)

Then you suggest that the vote it contains is trying to be random!? That writing there, next to the vote, looks like a reason to me, and a typically RVS reason too.

Then the completely pointless vote. Followed by an immediate switch to Mulch, parts of of your critiscism include (and this is the main thrust of your 107) reaching early conclusions based on a limited number of posts. Yet you are confident enough to drop a vote on UnaBomber after his first post? In the same post you even say...

Why do you feel like you can read their alignment off of one post? It seems like you are posturing around this read.

This reads like it could be an early distancing post to me, especially with Mulch's comment on Cloud dropping out of that slot.

Theta alpine and

Ignition

you

both

commented on flip-flops being scummy but failed to comment on this post, why?

[sigh]Then follows the inevitable "lets lynch a lurker because they're scum" discussion...[/sigh]

Holy shit, can someone tell me if there was anything relevent in post 405, it was making me lose the will to live so I gave up reading it. True Story.

I've actually like UnaBomba's last few posts so put a hold on my earlier theory, Yojimbo is still scum though.

Apart from that I'm getting scum vibes from Dunker (look like dodge posts) and Mary.
Osuka can be town for now.

There are probably more interesting things in there but time is a finite resource.

VOTE: Yumeko Jabami

[Mulch]

Sold

VOTE: yuneko

[Mulch]

VOTE: yumeko Jabami

[Nero Cain]

What do you think of Mary Mary quite contrary?

[Mulch]

What do you think of Mary Mary quite contrary?

Pure null

[Nero Cain]

Yes you are partner we're just doing that little distance thing remember?

oh thank god. I nearly forgot.

I guess they were gonna stallish posts because I was gonna read then went and did other things but I don't get why the whole stall thing is scummy to you. Where does Dave come into the question I'm just questioning you because of what I stated in my other post

I mean the "stall" thing is

kinda

scummy 'cause b/c it often comes from active lurking scum. Like it prob doesn't really apply now since you did a catch-up but that is where my mind was at on page 7.

The Dave thing...

Like me calling out wavemode for potentially being bandwagoning scum and then wanting sheep votes on the Flavorwagon and Dave trying to make out like it was some sort of contradiction is beyond stupid but that's just Dave...anyways I told Dave I was doing things i.e. pushing Flavor for light gut read/wanted to see what, if anything, would happen and I'm just not getting your comment/ question...like at all.

"Are you saying that the mario wagon isn't "Doing things." Can you tell me the dif between what you're doing with the flavor wagon vs the Mario wagon?"

What point were you trying to make here?

[Mulch]

Interesting.


Hey Nero would you say I'm being more fun to play with than in large 203

[Nero Cain]

Would have been kinda funny if you said "quite null"

[Nero Cain]

Hey Nero would you say I'm being more fun to play with than in large 203

eh.

[Mulch]

.