Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Robbnva]

So you can be scum also cause nothing bs with that post or my logic.

[RadiantCowbells]

Boop boop

[Korts]

So you can be scum also cause nothing bs with that post or my logic.

I will be happy to show that it is.

[Grendel]

PEdit: that's kinda cool. BTW I think your advice about sticking to less games so I could apply myself is pretty good, I'm in a few games but I am mostly just playing around one game per site I play on. Only one that defies this is Mafia Universe and even then I'm in very few there due to game speed being faster. I thought it was going to be horrible but it's not too bad. Actually managed to mechanically break a game!

Does this also explain the catch up shift?

I don't think I've ever seen you do catch up in such a methodical manner. o.o

Ideally this will be a precursor that you'll be playing a more content rich game. Tbh a lot of the games we had together where you were active lurking wasn't fun for me. Maybe it will make you easier to sort as well.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 14 thoughts:
Not much actually unless you want me to talk about my predecessor which is the most noteworthy thing. Guess I am still liking Teech, his scumreads are aligning fairly well with mine minus Korts which I'm kinda curious about tbh

@Chilly why were you townreading Korts?

Page 15:
Ginngie at it again with calling Korts obvtown with no reasoning provided.
Page 16:
Robb's "town doesn't shitpost" logic is so asinine but it's not scummy.
Also I find it ironic that one of the votecounts mentioned the prevalence of OMGUS reads in Civ when it's fairly common here too.
REALLY curious about Grendel being scum in Ginngie's opinion.

@Ginngie what's up here?

Page 17:
Vecna's initial post feels alright. Reads look solidly constructed.
Tryhardmonkey is looks mighty fine to me.
Page 18:
Vecna's triangle reads looks fairly good. Also lol he had a 4chan Triforce moment

[Grendel]

Reads at this point:
Town: Eddie, Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Leanscum: Aristophanes, Ginngie
Scum: Korts

Why is Moneky top town read for an interaction he made almost ten pages ago? Can you go back and justify this when you get caught up?

I'm really not feeling Monkey as town here.

This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.

Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.

I don't want to interrupt your catch up mind set, but Rob's day play is usually like that.

I won't requote what Others/I said previously, but I want a direct response to those points regarding Rob once you hit the in your read through.

However I do endorse any and all Monkey sheeps tho Korts. <3

Pre Edit

@Gamma

What do you think of Gingie's IC cliam?

I thought it was a stupid D1 gambit at first, but she doubled down on it recently. I'm not sure what to think if she does end up not being an IC. Anyways, for the time being I think she is not good lynch pool material.

[Grendel]

Korts feels like scum to me but can't really put it into words.

Eddie/korts/massive but so many others also. I really can't get into this game. Need a scum flip

Did you ever go back to read what others town reading have said about Eddie?

He is prob town, and you playing towards a personal ideal isn't going to change that.

[Robbnva]

So you can be scum also cause nothing bs with that post or my logic.

I will be happy to show that it is.

that would be pointless cause my logic > your explanation

Korts feels like scum to me but can't really put it into words.

Eddie/korts/massive but so many others also. I really can't get into this game. Need a scum flip

Did you ever go back to read what others town reading have said about Eddie?

He is prob town, and you playing towards a personal ideal isn't going to change that.

I have seen literally nothing from him or his predecessor that looks town to me. I can only scumhunt based on my own ideals. My ideals are ones that I really wish more people had.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 19 thoughts:
TChill had what is probably some of his scummiest posting in this game here. So I might bump him down a level.
Can people say why they've been scumreading Grendel? I don't see it. He hasn't been the paragon of towniness but his slot has been giving me town vibes between both of them.
Page 20:
TChill claim is very fast. Anyone got something to say about this? I'd say it's town who knee-jerk claimed. Also I wonder who he wanted to shoot n1 seeing as he said he had decided here.
Korts' read list is mostly okay but the Robb/Eddie reads give me the feeling he wants to keep that option open for later.
Reads update since I haven't had one of these in a while:
Town: Eddie, Robb, monkey, TChill
Leantown: Grendel, Vecna (some good moments but not enough to cement it)
Nultown: nancy, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Scum: Ginngie, Korts (have not been feeling good about Korts recently)

[Robbnva]

VOTE: tchill

haven't read the rest of the game. if you're town, not shooting him was an objective misplay. we had a free idler kill thst woyld also confirm you and you didjt shoot. i don't believe you are town.

This is a scum post. Vig should probably not shoot night 1 and he's attacking him for not shooting. He changes his stance later but that's probably cause a wagon wasn't happening.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 21 thoughts:
Vecna and Ginngie's interactions push them further into the read categories they are already in. And that's literally the whole page.
Page 22:
Same as before, but Korts steps into the fray looking like he's buttering up TChill (lol the irony) and I don't believe Vecna asked massive any questions. He also gives Vecna a lot of crap for a unstated L-1 that never happened, and was thought to happen because he fakevoted. Looks like a setup to me.
Page 23:
Vecna says Ginngie is trying to be a Wisdom clone by not reading which actually strengthens my Ginngie scumread a bit, because of how I managed to get Wisdom as scum once. It was noted earlier he was acting like he was current but in his words didn't seem to be. I caught Wisdom for about the same thing.
Page 24:
Monkey's reaction to Vecna's claim feels meh. Addressing this now, Vecna wasn't that high in votes when he claimed I think so it was kinda stupid imo.

Not gonna make a full list but I'm bumping monkey down to leantown because not as strong at this point and him being a bit sketchy on page 24.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 25:
Don't think Vecna blocked TChill so either he didn't shoot, he shot Vecna's target, he shot Vecna (which is horrible), or he is scum. 3 and 4 can coincide fyi.
Grendel's saying to leash Teech is pretty cool from him. Also, looking forward to Vecna's response as he's had some fun times with leashing "vigs".
Also mafia vigs are blacklisted, very likely due to how they promote a lot of swing and make it very dangerous once the game gets close to lylo.
Page 26:
SKs are actually advised to not claim vig unless tracked/watched fyi
Page 27:
Human's claim is so disappointing but I'm definitely thinking it is a town one. His progression to it feels really genuine.
Page 28:
My suspicions of Ginngie and Korts are still strong
Page 29:
Ginngie is just being loud :/
Page 30:
Assemble wagon nice, gonna be looking at it later I think
Page 31:
quick analysis says the Assembler wagon could be telling if certain other players were online then. TChill I want you to vig Assembler tonight. This isn't an order, just a suggestion, as I feel it can help sort things.

[Tchill13]

I leaned town on korts because he made a great, reasonable and seemingly town motivated case on me early. It changed to a scum read because of how he handled my claim and how he came off my wagon.

[Gamma Emerald]

Reads right now

Conftown: Vecna
Town: Eddie, Robb, monkey, TChill
Leantown: Grendel
Nultown: nancy, massive
Null: Dark Horse (haven't really seen too much of them tbh, might be UTR mafia)
Nullscum: Assembler
Scum: Ginngie, Korts

---

Also gonna be multiquoting for the bulk of Day 2's content. This likely means I'm leaving the page divisions. I'll be trying to use lines to make things clearer if I don't have a quote to go with my response to something.

[Ginngie]

Vote assemblr.

Not that hard...

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi. I've been prodded. I should really start declaring V/LAs.

I like how Gamma Emerald went in. It's a town entrance. Instead of coming in with an obvious agenda, he took time to read through the thread and move on from there. Definitely town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Posts through page 34

I got one note before being torn away by work -- Nancy is probably town for 583; I can't see picking "Vecna is a flat-out liar" as a hill you want to die on if you're scum and he's just claimed jailkeeper.

I feel like this is a good point and am bumping nancy up a tier.

I mean I'm guessing the last minute wagon was due to the face that assembler has done so little that there wouldn't be that many people opposed to his lynch. It was pretty clearly a desperation wagon in an attempt to stop a no lynch after how split town was.

I already talked about why I think monkey's scum but basically the way he claimed feels off, the way he's been omgusing slots was wack, his last minute switch on vecna felt fake, and I really don't like the huge double standard korts had between monkey and vecna's claims.

Assembler's play feels more Vig bait.

Which baffles me as to why TChill didn't shoot him.

@Tchill

Can you publicly submit a pool of players you intend to shoot in tonight?

Will make it easier to confirm your kill tomarrow.

VOTE: Grendel

With his vote placement in mind and the fact that he made this statement I feel that Grendel is scum.

Actually this statement makes sense from town him. What's the deal with his vote placement though?

My play so far would have drawn a vigkill, I now realize. If TChill did not shoot me, I highly doubt his claim.
VOTE: TChill

This now needs to die: this is a scummy pop-in, which is when a mafia makes a vote and doesn't do much else while lurking or generally being inactive.

I did not use my ability and I am not claiming one shot. I wasn't gonna kill a townie on accident on top of the fact that we had already given scum a free kill because of the no lynch.

Thanks for explaining. I can see this mindset, though I 100% would have vigged Assembler.

VOTE: Tchill

Korts coming in with the terrible vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

Rest of the posts to now

"even if I'm town it's not sure I'd be killed at this point" lol. Yeah scums gonna leave the pr alive that can kill them. That's laughable. If you don't believe I'm a vig then you should believe I'm scum. It's as simple as that.

None of us believe you're a vig. BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T VIG ANYONE. Jeezus.

Like, honestly, why would Mafia kill you if you actually ARE town? You're too terrified to actually shoot. You're just a named townie.

This is bad but not necessarily scummy. Just a bit of cognitive dissonance I think.

Okay, I'm finally sitting down to recalibrate. I'm gonna have to do this in portions though, because I have a bunch of other shit to deal with too.

VOTE: unvote

Reread notes - page 1-3 - The Percy wagon builds up

• Robb's post 14, after Percy repeated her silly first vote reason in an intentionally silly way, is way too serious and immediate a response (coming within 5 minutes of Percy's post). Then Percy's appeal to RVS is dismissed with some boggling logic in 16.
  This is the molehill at the bottom of the mountain that was the Percy vs. Robb fight, and even though I agree with Dark Horse's 18 that Percy's dismissal of Robb sounded forced, I think Robb's reply is even more so - "you didn't RVS" is already a pretty unjustified argument, because RVS is a game state that dictates arbitrary voting, and not any individual action, which means that any vote in RVS is, by definition, participation in RVS; and the follow-up argument of "when you don't RVS you need to make sense" is just downright empty rhetoric.
  This could just be Robb trying to move the game forward, but it's a very shaky foundation to have started building on.
   
  
• Based on just this initial exchange, Kaboose and Dark Horse immediately jump on Percy's wagon, which I find weird. When I was first reading through this exchange, I automatically parsed it as town v. town, but if I had to choose a less defensible side, it would be Robb's. (I say less defensible instead of scummy, because again, this is early game activity.)
   
  
• Meanwhile, Tchill's post 20 does not take a side in the Percy/Robb spat, but does riff on Percy's silly "we must have blood" reason to start an unrelated wagon on monkey. Nancy immediately takes a mediating role between Robb and Percy, asking both to elaborate on their positions. monkey puts additional pressure on Percy, and asks Robb seemingly pointed questions (though when I ask him about it, he seems to echo Robb's reasoning instead of questioning it). Then he gets gratingly cocky in response to Ginggie's townAF read on him - "how much do you trust that read" still rubs me wrong, even if Ginggie's post warranted questions itself.
   
  
• massive and Tchill jump on Percy, both of them just openly riding the wagon.
   
  
• Percy's defense against Robb in 42 is sound. In response, Robb doubles down on his bullshit logic in 45, and gets immediate heat from massive and Tchill, who are voting together in immediate succession again.
   
  
• monkey makes cases on Percy and Tchill, changes vote to Tchill, then a couple posts later back to Percy. His case against Percy is pretty weak though, as it's built on the "it was a real reason, not a joke reason" argument, when, come on - how the fuck do you read "we must have blood" as a real reason?

This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.

Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.

Now it's time to address this. I don't like it. He seems to be painting the people voting PS as scum no matter who they are.

PEdit: that's kinda cool. BTW I think your advice about sticking to less games so I could apply myself is pretty good, I'm in a few games but I am mostly just playing around one game per site I play on. Only one that defies this is Mafia Universe and even then I'm in very few there due to game speed being faster. I thought it was going to be horrible but it's not too bad. Actually managed to mechanically break a game!

Does this also explain the catch up shift?

I don't think I've ever seen you do catch up in such a methodical manner. o.o

Ideally this will be a precursor that you'll be playing a more content rich game. Tbh a lot of the games we had together where you were active lurking wasn't fun for me. Maybe it will make you easier to sort as well.

The catch-up shift is to reserve my posts for when I'm directly interacting with players. Though I do like this quite I bit as I've said.

Reads at this point:
Town: Eddie, Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Leanscum: Aristophanes, Ginngie
Scum: Korts

Why is Moneky top town read for an interaction he made almost ten pages ago? Can you go back and justify this when you get caught up?

I'm really not feeling Monkey as town here.

This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.

Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.

I don't want to interrupt your catch up mind set, but Rob's day play is usually like that.

I won't requote what Others/I said previously, but I want a direct response to those points regarding Rob once you hit the in your read through.

However I do endorse any and all Monkey sheeps tho Korts. <3

Pre Edit

@Gamma

What do you think of Gingie's IC cliam?

I thought it was a stupid D1 gambit at first, but she doubled down on it recently. I'm not sure what to think if she does end up not being an IC. Anyways, for the time being I think she is not good lynch pool material.

RE: Monkey: Yeah the thing at the beginning isn't enough to go that high at this point but there's also the way they claimed.
RE: Ginngie: I figured it was NAI fakeclaiming. I do agree Ginngie isn't a good lynch for now, I prefer Korts or Assembler. I will state that IC doesn't much qualify as a "power role" since you/the mod just do the thing and then you are the same as if you were innoed by a cop.

Hi. I've been prodded. I should really start declaring V/LAs.

I like how Gamma Emerald went in. It's a town entrance. Instead of coming in with an obvious agenda, he took time to read through the thread and move on from there. Definitely town.

Thank you but that's not the case. I almost never come in pushing something as a replacement, and most of the time I catch up like I have (though with less compression). If Vecna were still alive he'd tell you himself he's seen me do it as scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Between Korts and Assembler I'd rather
VOTE: Korts
for 2 reasons
1) his lynch isn't being led by one of my scumreads
2) we haven't had a major wagon on him yet so this will make VCA that happens later more useful imo.

[Ginngie]

I'm an IC dumbass

[Eddie Cane]

people are giving robb way too much meta points. I passed him off because it's annoying to deal with him. I'm not gonna ignore it anymore

VOTE: robb

[Ginngie]

If you town read assemblr then explain why, otherwise you're going into the scumbucket for ignoring this.

[Eddie Cane]

assemble is getting vigged tonight

[Robbnva]

I like how Gamma Emerald went in. It's a town entrance. Instead of coming in with an obvious agenda, he took time to read through the thread and move on from there. Definitely town.

meh, that's easy to do as scum. I certainly have done it as scum before

[Robbnva]

I'm an IC dumbass

make up your mind. are you an IC or a pr? because earlier you said you were a pr which is completely different imo.