Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Robbnva]

Robb. Why is the Eddie slot scum and Tchill just bad town?

I was already scum the slot. Eddie replaced in and proceeded to do nothing but troll.

That's not a town mindset and anyone who says or thinks otherwise is wrong imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Robbnva

Well there's no need to be condescending.

Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?

I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?

Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it.

VOTE: Kaboose

Ginngie come actually play this game.

Okay so this isn't exactly what I thought but it's somewhat close. He's saying Kaboose is scum for what seems to be not looking for the answers and shading him with questions. I think this is a bit unfair seeing as iirc massive got upset because he was going one post at a time. If that was the case it makes sense he missed the answers.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Eddie could we get final reads if you intend to follow through on replacing out?

[Tchill13]

If Eddie is replacing out let's go ahead and lynch him. I have no problem lynching Eddie or korts. Lynching Eddie would give us some information because a few people have defended him. I feel a little more confident that korts is scum but I'm willing to lynch Eddie because I'm confident enough that he might be scum too.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd rather lynch the scum thank you
If you vigged Eddie's slot I wouldn't be too upset however, that's your call to make.

[Tchill13]

They're both probably scum. You obviously agree if you're OK with me vigging Eddie.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's misrepresenting me. I just am not going to throw a shit fit if you don't vig my scumreads.

[Tchill13]

Then why even mention me vigging Eddie's slot?

[Assemblerotws]

@Mod, replace me.

[Robbnva]

Refresh my memory. Why didn't you shoot?

[Tchill13]

Basically because we no lynched. I didn't feel the need to give scum a free townie kill if I missed shot that gave little to no information.

[Ginngie]

So, what if we lynched town that day?

why would you have shot then?

[Robbnva]

Meh. You should have shot the person who was about to be lynched so town could still analyze the wagon but whatever.

[Tchill13]

I could have. Had we lynched town we would have had a wagon that went through to analyze. Then I would have shot whoever I felt was scum. I didn't want to give scum another townie kill. That's what we did with the no lynch.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We already had a wagon to analyze.

Work's done. I can be active as I please now. Gonna do what Gamma Emerald did because that was an effective way to catch up.

[nancy]

Feeling a little bit better today but definitely concerned that no one responded to my reach out; don't get the sense that anyone is really interested in actually talking / playing mafia here so much as having shouting matches and going in circles insisting that they're "more right"; the fact that I have no idea why Eddie/Korts are being scumread despite several people having stated that they want to lynch them doesn't feel like a particularly good sign - definitely would like to hear some reasoning there especially from slots that don't seem to be actively pushing them / aren't doing a lot in thread right now.

@Gamma why are you scumreading Korts? Would definitely like to hear about your progression there; you mentioned your scumread on him was weakening part way through your catchup but ended up seeming basically convinced that he's scum asking people to sheep you and there was never any real sign of why / how any of that was happening - pretty worried about how little your reads changed at all over the course of ~35 pages overall. Basically dislike your stance on Ginngie being that you scumread her but aren't going to push her + are more or less ignoring her slot / the IC claim - feels a lot like you're holding on to a scumread there until mod confirmation forces you away from it; basically don't understand any of your reads at this point. Also I'm not sure why you're saying we haven't played together when I was scum against you in that off-site game?

@Korts I don't understand why you're voting Robbnva? Because of the bad logic or because of the way he reacted to you or something else? Definitely would like to hear about where that vote is coming from because the timing of it is pretty ??? in that it feels almost more like an emotional response than actually thinking that Robbnva is scum; think that your catchup so far has been pretty decent but I'd definitely like to hear more about what's going into your reads / see into your process a little more clearly - think that you've been a little opaque and would really like for that to change if at all possible to help me feel better about my read on you.

I realize you're only on page 14? but definitely interested to hear about your Tchill/monkey reads in particular; think that at this point focusing on Robb as heavily as you have been isn't going to be very helpful at all so I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts on slots other than his in some more substantive ways; pretty much thinking that if you're not able to engage with him without tilting then maybe try to ignore him as best you can and focus elsewhere? Really don't want to have any more replace outs and I basically doubt that you two have any hope of understanding each other this game. If you do think he's scum I'd definitely like to hear why; don't really like anything he's done this game and the way that his thread presence seems to basically consist of creating noise and OMGUSing anyone who pushes back on him isn't something I'm inclined to townread at all; the progression of not feeling good about his reads to having what basically look like lockscum reads / telling people to sheep him when he gets lynched in particular isn't one that makes sense to me at all - if you have any thoughts on that I'd be interested to hear them.

@Tchill if you're vig you absolutely have to shoot to confirm yourself; pretty much the only reason there isn't a substantial wagon on you right now is that your claim is confirmable; not shooting last night put the game into evens so I don't understand that position from you at all. Really need to hear some reasoning from you on any of your reads here because I haven't seen anything different about your play today and that's not something I feel good about at all.


Pretty sad that Eddie is gone; definitely have thought about replacing out myself on more than one occasion; not really finding this game enjoyable at all and finding it pretty difficult to do anything as a result. Not really sure why I joined the normal queue tbh.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I was starting to feel like Korts posts had more towny angles in them. My main reason throughout has been his angles being poor. There's also his cruddy vote on TChill Day 2.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oops missed half of your stuff to me.
Ginngie didn't have a vote on them so I didn't feel like pushing them.
As for the off-site game that was a whoops, probably because your name was different.
BTW you gonna play the new closed standard Grendel/Aquila has up?

[humaneatingmonkey]

1-3 thoughts:
#11 Gonna stand by my read about PS here. Voting for game-related reasons that early in RVS feels like a cautious scum. But of course it's a weak read. PS's reaction in #13, #15, #42 does not reflect what she claims in #21, #57, and #58. She's lying. I don't think lying often comes from town. #72 PS gets towncredit for townreading me at a point where scumreading me—I think—was a better scum play.

Robb vs PS looks like TownRobb vs ScumPS or TownRobb vs TownPS. So it isn't likely that there's a partnership between them.

#30 Robb not having anything to add when he's the one who instigated the questioning establishes that he's more inclined to be reactionary rather than trying to figure out the game at this point. But that's NAI at this point.

#46 Was Massive's vote explained here.

Massive?

How is condescending a grounds for voting?

#47 Chill's voting Robb is bad play from both scum and town. NAI.

#64, #66, #67 I think Korts' push against me was really weak in retrospect but it sounds "good" because he was being assertive about it. I don't see how he could have seen me highly scummy there to warrant such aggressiveness. It follows the trend from #25 where Korts misrepresents Robb's idea of RVS as "very narrow". Robb's idea of RVS is the standard paradigm. Korts likes to misrepresent minor thoughts unforgivably. Establishes Korts as a shitstirrer himself. Korts thinks "shit-stirring" is scummy in #69 but that's exactly what he does. #71 is also a bad reason to scumread someone. "WIFOM" (what he assumes is) is NAI. Feels like bad town or scum.

#73 Out of all the weak arguments Korts pushed against me, Assemblerotws chose the weakest to vote me. This could be ScumKorts + ScumAssemble.

Reads so far:

Town:
Leantown:
Nulltown: Robb
Null: Massive, TChill
Nullscum: PS
Leanscum: Korts, Assemble
Scum:

[Ginngie]

I could have. Had we lynched town we would have had a wagon that went through to analyze. Then I would have shot whoever I felt was scum. I didn't want to give scum another townie kill. That's what we did with the no lynch.

How does you killing a townie without a lynch differ from when you kill a townie with a lynch?

It's objectively worse to not shoot

[Tchill13]

It's objectively worse to shoot a townie. I'm not talking about it anymore it's a waste of time.

[nancy]

What do you mean by towny / poor angles? Not sure I understand you there; definitely need more from you than just a cursory one-word take on his content so far - he's produced more substantive content than a lot of players here right now including me so I don't feel like there should be any real lack of ability to talk about why on your read there; think if you're town here you need to do a lot more work in showing how you're getting to your reads because I'm not really seeing that from you right now. I'm not really feeling too much better about you than your predecessor although your treatment of Robbnva overall has been pretty decent I think; a lot of my concerns are just that I don't really understand your pushes / the progression on your reads so that's definitely something I'd like addressed - what do you dislike about the Tchill vote? Why are you townreading Tchill aside from the claim? Why are you townreading Grendel in particular as strongly as you are? Don't understand the move from lean town in 913 to basically telling people not to scumhunt him in 999? If you could run through that for me that would be pretty helpful.

Thanks for the invite but I'm not really visiting the site anymore + am overgamed and not into mafia at all right now after ~1-2 things that happened recently so I don't think I'll take you up on it sorry; doubt I'll be joining any more games anywhere for the time being except maybe on MU if I see a playerlist that I really like; if I do play one here it'll 100% be in a hydra with someone like Prism/Plotinus/mastina who I really enjoy spending time with / feel understood by.

Also I wasn't in GiF's game I don't think unless you're referring to something else.

[nancy]

It's objectively worse to shoot a townie. I'm not talking about it anymore it's a waste of time.

Think it's a pretty legitimate concern so I'm not really sure you can afford to just pretend it doesn't exist here; shooting town is 100% going to happen when you're a Vigi and not shooting anyone because you're afraid to misfire isn't a reasonable position at all unless you think it will put the game into MyLo/LyLo / don't have any scumreads you feel good about at all which I don't think is something that really ever happens - shooting lurkers / mislynch bait slots can absolutely be pro-town and I'm not sure why you're arguing otherwise.

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you mean by towny / poor angles? Not sure I understand you there; definitely need more from you than just a cursory one-word take on his content so far - he's produced more substantive content than a lot of players here right now including me so I don't feel like there should be any real lack of ability to talk about why on your read there; think if you're town here you need to do a lot more work in showing how you're getting to your reads because I'm not really seeing that from you right now. I'm not really feeling too much better about you than your predecessor although your treatment of Robbnva overall has been pretty decent I think; a lot of my concerns are just that I don't really understand your pushes / the progression on your reads so that's definitely something I'd like addressed - what do you dislike about the Tchill vote? Why are you townreading Tchill aside from the claim? Why are you townreading Grendel in particular as strongly as you are? Don't understand the move from lean town in 913 to basically telling people not to scumhunt him in 999? If you could run through that for me that would be pretty helpful.

Thanks for the invite but I'm not really visiting the site anymore + am overgamed and not into mafia at all right now after ~1-2 things that happened recently so I don't think I'll take you up on it sorry; doubt I'll be joining any more games anywhere for the time being except maybe on MU if I see a playerlist that I really like; if I do play one here it'll 100% be in a hydra with someone like Prism/Plotinus/mastina who I really enjoy spending time with / feel understood by.

Also I wasn't in GiF's game I don't think unless you're referring to something else.

I feel like the things Korts is choosing to push are being pushed for scum gain. I'll go in-depth at some point soon, likely within 24 hours.
Other than the claim, I think I am townreading TChill for some of his reads he's made. There's also the votes from Assembler and Korts that make him very likely town imo.
I'm not necessarily saying "don't scumhunt Grendel", I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him. Also massive credited a thought I had to Grendel exclusively and pushed him with this.
You were in Democracy in GiF's game.

[Ginngie]

You were in Democracy in GiF's game.

She probably doesn't remember that because when a traumatic event happens, you tend to have no memory of it because you don't want to remember it.

All I know is that we signed up for that game, anything else, couldn't tell ya what happened >_>