Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

I never

[massive]

Still haven't answered why Eddie's slot is scum and Tchill is just bad town. Other than "I'm still stuck in my tunnel."

Uh yes I did.

No, you did not. You said

I was already scum the slot. Eddie replaced in and proceeded to do nothing but troll.

That's not a town mindset and anyone who says or thinks otherwise is wrong imo.

which is (a) I'm just tunnelling Eddie and (b) says nothing about Tchill or how you can tell a difference between the two.

[Robbnva]

Did tchill do nothing and troll?

No
There's your difference. Why are you being difficult?

Tchill has tried to play the game. Eddie wasn't until I voted him again. That's scummy and imo a scumtell.

[Robbnva]

So flip it. What has Eddie done that's town and tchill that's scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Robbnva

"it's literally the dumbest thing ever to fake claim vig on day 1. I see why people wanted to lynch you."

TChill didn't help himself here when he was one of the scummiest people D1 (so far in my catch up). Didn't also help when he didn't vig last night when it made most sense. Also, here at @498 TChill claims he knows who he's shooting already. Wonder what happened to that.I'm not saying lynch him now because I can still see that it's possible that he's a vig. I'm saying tomorrow, if there's no kill, we should lynch him.

Also, it's not the dumbest thing to fake claim vig as scum. I can see a strategy where that can work but let's talk about that when the day ends. There's no reason for me to coach a possible scumchill.

@Gamma Emerald
"I wouldn't say lynch Ginngie if he's not autoconfirmable but I won't object unless I end up townreading him"

It's literally grounds for lynching to fake claim an D3 innocent child and then come D3, the mod does not confirm you as an innocent child. What are you talking about?

------------

Okay let's continue. 17-22

@419
I'm wrong about this. It's genuine frustration from Robb. I missed how he got that feeling from a dead thread—not here. I could see how people read my reaction to it in #439 as scum opportunism.

@438
Monkey's Korts read here is a surface level townread by someone who has not been really engaged to the game. He made this decision based on Korts' effort in making his posts and his aggressive behavior. I think those are NAI now.

@427
Vecna's triangle isn't something that makes sense logically for me. For example, if I eliminate myself and TChill (should we be both town and TChill is telling the truth), I don't see how that makes Korts scum (even if I scumread him thus far). Vecna misses the perspective that the interaction could be TvT.

@467
This confirms that Eddie Cane was in it only to destablize Robb's stance to the whole majority. He blames the majority for not telling him it regular occurence when I recall that he was told of it. However: "right now id say I have robb 60/40 town and 80/20 odds on him replying this saying I'm still scum or not replying." This makes me think that it's more scum-motivated because this looks like a gag order to Robb. In that context, the sudden change of stance looks as if it's a means to pocket someone. Also, this moves makes most sense as scum because even after that 1v1, no one was looking at Robb as scum.

"considering I'm voting sd without any reasoning given I'm curios how this'll go." this looks bad.

@486
Not liking how Korts equate being able to agree with as a towntell. And also vice verse. He equates being unable to agree with (or people scumreading him) as scumtell. But that's NAI.

@491
TChill's claim makes kind of sense because everyone wanted to lynch him.

It's hard to get anything alignment indicative up to Page 22. And also a bulk of the content were Vecna, Ginngie, TChill—people I said I wouldn't touch.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown: Sunlit Diamond
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[Ginngie]

It's literally grounds for lynching to fake claim an D3 innocent child and then come D3, the mod does not confirm you as an innocent child. What are you talking about?

Where did you learn this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Massive

"#119 Massive votes Kaboose for something I think is NAI. It establishes that massive votes based on bad plays rather than alignment-indicative things—which is NAI. But it doesn't excuse the other stuff."

You vote on massive was as follows:

"I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?

Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it."

These were the questions by Kaboose:
"Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?"

These questions were NAI. Anyone could have made these questions because you have failed to supply your explanations to each item. It's reasonable to ask about it.

You claim that you voted for him because he asked these questions just to ask questions. How is that a valid scumread? And you can't say that "it's because he was just asking questions that doesn't influence his reads" because your vote post was your first reply to him. He couldn't have made any progress with that before you made your conclusion about it.

To answer your questions: I think it's BS to vote someone because they're condescending and I don't like that you did it. I think it's fair to ask why you think it's a valid case to make because it's not. I think you were sketchy in dropping the Percy wagon for 42-44 when it was nothing to move an inch for.
-----------
@Ginngie
Wiki. The mod will confirm you as an innocent child by Day 3, right? If he didn't, you lied about your role. I'd want to see you hang for that.
====

@mod

Can we have a post count count? I've been making a lot of posts.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't because I don't have computer access.

[RadiantCowbells]

You have 52 posts

Robb has 18

[humaneatingmonkey]

23-25

#555
I can understand if anyone would see Vecna's claim as bullshit considering the circumstances around it.
#557
Vecna assumes too much. No wonder he would have been nearly lynched. But he makes sense when he argues that Korts read list where he townreads people who didn't warrant much townread was suspect and possibly scum-motivated pocketing. But all the pre-flip associations and teamconnection he was visualizing were flawed.

#579
It made sense for Eddie to call Dark Horse's 474 post as bad, but I don't get how to warrants scum points.
He also reads SD's 482 as bad but it's ironic because the way Eddie read it was bad too. I think SD was right in the assessment that Eddie is a shit-stirrer. But not sure how it's a scum lean. I think Eddie is a pattern OMGUS-er.
I don't know how he would have had town-read Vecna independent of his claim because Vecna was scummy. He town-reads him here because he agrees with Vecna, but it's my opinion that Vecna's votes were based on shaky logic.
I didn't get why his response to 487 was "it doesn't really matter" because Eddie is the slot to make Grendel's support alignment-indicative.
I didn't also get why he sees 488 as "eew" because it was a valid question to ask by Vecna.
I understand where he's coming from in his reaction to 503, 506, and 512.
I don't understand why he would have voted Ginngie at 524 for his reason, and definitely not when he all had the hots for Korts. I don't see how that was "gross" at all from Ginngie.
Eddie
#600
This is the weakest in that wagon. Eddie goes from townreading Vecna to an unexplained vote wanting a full claim. He didn't make the effort to challenge his idea, he just went straight to it. #617
After getting his fullclaim, even tho he expresses his doubts about it, Eddie then votes me. I think Eddie's behavior around Vecna's claim is scum-motivated.

#583
Nancy rebuffing Vecna's claim openly does not make sense as scum. That town read cannot be more higher.

#591
Sunlit Diamond's Vecna vote was the second weakest in that wagon. Being "explain-y" doesn't make you scum. He didn't elaborate on that "LAMIST" thing. And he piggybacks nancy. And also, he signs off his vote with a wiggle room for backpedal later. This is a bad post.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Lock Town: Nancy
Town:
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Sunlit Diamond
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, I caught that there were 6 people who asked for an extension. Can I get a massclaim of who asked for an extension and who didn't? Especially those outside of Assembler's wagon. I think that's in order.

I asked for an extension because I haven't caught up with the game and I was a leading wagon and the other wagon was someone I eventually believed the claim for.

26-28

#628 #636
Grendel defending Vecna's claim in a situation where wagonning him is the best strategy for scum can only come from a town place. Town points.
#639
Grendel's vote on me is something that I can understand. But it's too much assumption for example, "blame evasion", my friendliness. Which is I consider NAI. But I understand the stance about my Robb scumread about his AtE and my lurking which is generally scummy.

#631
This is a fair counterpoint by Sunlit Diamond on experience vs frustration.

#629
Flip-floppy Eddie Cane. I don't buy that "too low on time" spiel here considering he was here for the duration of the day and he had read.
#633 #645
I don't really get why Eddie would vote me.
But #662 from Eddie makes a fair point in light of recent events about how Sunlit was acting with Vecna and my wagon.
#665
His justification for the vote seems legit.
I stand by the fact that Eddie noticing scum not voting for an extension to be highly scummy. It's sorta feels like something only scum would notice.
He also says lynching assemble gives us 0 info which is wrong. Assemble's flip is the best info we will get from the slot apart from a replacement because him playing won't give us anything.
He makes a fair point about stalling, but not buddying. I don't see anything wrong with buddying with your top town read.
#671
He washes his hands about the whole "I didn't ask you to claim" when he was the one who pushed me so:

"and no, asking nancy is not the correct way. that's called buddying and stalling. you have no idea if shell be on in the next 12 hours, you expect us to analyze your claim in whatever time period we have left after she tells you to claim, and you expect us to build another wagon in said time period? people on this site aren't active enough for that, not even close."

#686 #688
Eddie's frustration feels fake for me so this frustration could also come from scum. The aggressiveness is off.

#678
RE: white-knighting/pocketing. I think Grendel is clear for that, but Eddie Cane is suspicious.

#679 #680
I can get behind why Korts think Vecna is still the right lynch. So are these #681 TChill #682 Ginngie

#663
I'm stupid for saying Grendel's reasons for scumreading me is bad.
#685
This is objectively scummy but my defense was that I have no idea what the gamestate looks like and I'm just OMGUS-ing.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Sunlit Diamond
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[Robbnva]

VOTE: vecna

full claim. also, note that vecna said the role is confirmable. probably something like fruit vendor.

This post right here is terrible. Especially given vecna was town. It's opportunistic as fuck and he's trying to force a full claim.

Vecna wasn't even really on his radar. The post right before that he has vecna as townish but now he's somehow scummy and needs to full claim?

Sorry that's scum 9 times out of 10.

His sd vote cake without any reason
His Hingis vote was off 1 post? That post wasn't even bad.

Yeah so there. Eddie's ISO is scum.

After that. Votes monkey for no reason. Massive for no reason, monkey again for no reason.

Day 2 no reason for assembler.

Votes tchill for not shooting (super scummy)

Somebody show me something protown. All these people defending him cause my reasons are bad and I'm tunneling him but nobody actually showing ANYTHING he's done that's protown.

Could it be cause he hasn't done anything protown?

You don't like my reasons. Fine but there is such a thing as being caught for the wrong reasons.

Eddie/massive/korts (pretty sure I was scum reading massive day 1)

That scum team makes sense to me. If I'm wrong on one, throw monkey in the mix.

That's game solved I'll bet my life on it.

[Tchill13]

I'm down with that robbvna. We should lynch Eddie's slot today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Robb, what do you think about Eddie's #665? I'm still not done catching up so I'm still not confident to join you in the Eddie wagon.

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh I can't really call anything from Eddie pro-town all I can muster is that some things are NAI. He's still not the worst for me though.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ahem?

@nancy
@Ginngie
@Dark Horse
@Eddie Cane
@Tchill13
@Korts
@Grendel
@AssemblerotwsD
@massive

Can you guys tell me if you've asked for an extension or not?

[Robbnva]

Robb, what do you think about Eddie's #665? I'm still not done catching up so I'm still not confident to join you in the Eddie wagon.

What specifically about it? It looks like a post that could just as easily come from scum just as much as town.

And the stuff about extensions. I never asked for one cause I wasn't around to see it.


You don't think Eddie as scum can refuse to vote for an extension, say he did in game, and chastise anyone who didn't?

bottom line nothing in that post is 100% town. It could easily be scum lamisting

[Robbnva]

Ahem?

@nancy
@Ginngie
@Dark Horse
@Eddie Cane
@Tchill13
@Korts
@Grendel
@AssemblerotwsD
@massive

Can you guys tell me if you've asked for an extension or not?

This is pointless. Scum are going to lie.

mod please post the names of everyone who voted for an extension

[humaneatingmonkey]

No please analyze his post reasons he said in #665. A bulk of your reasons was that he had no reason. That's what he would refer that to you when he replies to you.

And "this is pointless. Scum are going to lie.". NOT POINTLESS for EXACTLY the reason you said. You'd want to see who have the more believable claim. There are only 6 people who asked for an extension. If 8 people claim to have asked for extension, it will at least limit our search into finding scum in that area.

And I don't think you have been reading my catch up posts. I am disappointed I really made a lot of effort in those posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

So HEM is intending to DoP-style scumhunt the extend vote claims, cool

[RadiantCowbells]

Ahem?

@nancy
@Ginngie
@Dark Horse
@Eddie Cane
@Tchill13
@Korts
@Grendel
@AssemblerotwsD
@massive

Can you guys tell me if you've asked for an extension or not?

This is pointless. Scum are going to lie.

mod please post the names of everyone who voted for an extension

I cannot do this.

[Robbnva]

Bad mod is bad

[Robbnva]

the leading wagon is an un ccd pr. you are someone lots to people have expressed interest in lynching and I scumread personally, so you're a good lynch today to sort people. sd is someone similar.

Vecna and sd are people who others scumread.

He also scum read them.

He have no reasons for those scum reads is a red flag

Here he says vecna is a good lynch but 655 he says

we aren't lynching vecna. he is un ccd protective pr. he will resolve.

Which raises yet another red flag.

He can blacklist me all he wants but if he is actually town his votes without reason, opportunistic vote to force a town pr to full claim without any reason for the vote, later says he shouldn't be voted and 10 posts later does a 180 and basically admits he is only scum reading him cause others are scum reading him.

That's terrible play.

Now is this town Eddie or scum Eddie?

To me that's scum. If I'm wrong I'll deal with it but nothing about the above is acceptable from town. If you want to discredit it as a policy lynch that's fine but it all points to scum to me.

[Robbnva]

I'll be curious what Eddie thinks of Grendel backing him up on voting Sunlit Diamond.

I'm really wondering why massive has such a hard on for my scum read of Eddie because prior to him asking me about Eddie this post is the only other time Eddie appears in his ISO. That alone is a weird post. Why does massive care about Eddie's thoughts?

You would think if he's so gung ho defending Eddie there were be more stuff in his ISO about him.

When PS was here massive spent his time discrediting me and my push. That's literally all massive has done with regards to me.

If Eddie is scum, massive is 100% his partner.

[humaneatingmonkey]

29-333

#727
RE: Dark Horse
I claimed because I was a counterwagon that was gaining fast speed in my limited perspective when I wasn't caught up. I can now see how that's stupid. But it's not accurate to say that it was just myself that caused me to claim. There was a real pressure on my part to not get lynched.
Also RE: doubting Vecna being scum. It was a real concern based on the fact that we haven't gotten our extension.
The argument against Korts was fair considering he didn't subject me to the same lens of paranoia with Vecna. But I think I read a future post where it was explained properly how I'm not subject to the same lense anyway.

#748
I don't see how Sunlit thought TChill was townier than Robb independent of his claim.
====
Final Day 1 reads:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Sunlit Diamond
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane
====
31-33

#773
Dark Horse naked votes me without analysis on what happened to the Vecna flip. I don't see why the Vecna flip didn't warrant reevaluation.
#781 makes sense which neutralizes TChill's #780 Assemblr vote.
I agree with #802 Tchill's #800 is not a good vote regardless of what Robb conf-bias says in #801.

#779 #812
TChill holds some wrong conceptions about how the Vecna flip plays out. But I can agree to disagree.
HOWEVER
There's scummy inconsistency with TChill about how he handles Assemble. He votes him in #780 convinced that he's probably scum, BUT he didn't vig him? This places my reasonable doubt that TChill might be lying about that Vig claim. I think later he defends his lack of kill by saying he didn't believe Assemble to be scum?

If TChill does not kill Night 2, please lynch him.

#809
This is a post that I can understand from Korts.

#813
Monkey boy's not doing town good by not reading.

#818
I do not understand Assemble here because he made sense here. So it's probably not an S+S interaction for TChill and Assemble.

#820
I don't understand Sunlit thinking that it's strange to scumread TChill based on no vigshots. Wasn't the point in having him survive to confirm his role? The lack of paranoia is suspect.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb,
Null: Grendel, Sunlit Diamond
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane