Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[Leonshade]

Looks like that's L-1 and kinda-sorta intent.

I'm a town enhancer (read: motivator). My role may or may not be gated. I did targeted a player last night, obviously not claiming that, either.

More later tonight.

[Polar Vortex]

Like, are you actually sitting here saying that the team is me+Leon, and voting kmd? Me, Leon, and kmd?

Someone, anyone, toss me a fucking bone here, read this slot for the love of god.

Calm the fuck down please. No need to get this heated. I just said that your tiers looked like trying to frame me as a Leon partner. And they do. I'm not confident that any of my reads are strong enough to insist on a KMD-you-Leon team
~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

Come on Bear, what's terrible about this Leon slot that you're just now realizing for the first time, I'm dying to know

First time I read him. I believe my partner said that thing about the tone, but it pretty obviously wasn't a strong read so me changing that is in no way as suspicious as you paint it.
~Bear

[Spiffeh]

Should be here tonight

[Polar Vortex]

I mean, Leon is getting lynched probably. It was definetly looking like that before I posted. If I was partnered with him, such a late attempt at bussing would be laughable. If I was scum and he town, I'd get much more by continuing to push the KMD wagon and then shout at you for being idiots to lynch Leon. What's the IV for scum me mentioning that? None whatsoever. But you're not interested in details like that, are you Prism?
~Bear

[Spiffeh]

UNVOTE:

[Polar Vortex]

As the game goes on I have a harder time seeing Spiffeh as scum. His wagon formed out of nothing on RVS and it is still our current largest wagon. That just makes no sense. I feel like it's just a snowball of bad wagon leads to bad reactions, bad reactions lead to "serious" arguments, which lead to more reaction, more arguing and so on.

I don't think if he was scum he'd still be the larges wagon and pretty much the only player being scrutinized, when there are people like Ashoka, Kmd, VNB, or even us, people with few posts, bad posts, easy targets for scum. The only thing that could explain scum not coming after them is that scum are fine with the current state of the game. Because if they weren't (if Spiffeh was scum), no way he'd be the top wagon, or the only one at least.

I'm really skeptical of this defense here. Scum don't have a lot of influence in who gets voted outside of their partners; assuming there's 3 you have 2 out of the 12 other votes. That's not a lot to really wagon with unless they want to join Spiffeh and all 3 pile up at once. This post also really has the dual purpose of bringing others' attention to Ahsoka, kmd, VNB, etc. without directly pushing them.

It wasn't just the votes. The game was stale and Spiffeh was the only player being focused. His partners wouldn't have needed a bunch of votes or eloquent cases, a simple conversation about any other player could have shifted the focus. So either they were braindead or non-existent. I don't like underestimating scum, so I went with non-existent. Or I guess you could argue I'm one of them, but I don't think you are.

#848 is also a

major

missed opportunity to flesh out some thought processes on camn-what're their hangups? What are some thing that make them go "I don't know" and the arguments behind each side? I think the other point I have is bigger but this one bothers me too. Their read on Spiffeh on page 36 is all kinds of yuck, too.

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

Both heads have different scumreads at the moment. We're working on them and will give reads together soonish. My better head has town reads on all of the Spiffeh wagon. I currently don't have reads on any of then, but the way the wagon is going I'm sure there should be at least one scum there. Probably not Ginngie since my interaction with her earlier on gave me a good impression
~Bear

This is a really bad post I think. I expect hydras to differ but this is a really big disconnect that seems purely to be in reaction to Heartless calling them out on it, rather than them proactively speaking and comparing notes. One head has all townreads and the other has

nothing

on any of those players would be unusual to me.

I don't see how not expanding on our IDK-read on Camn is a point against us; the read itself, or lack of it, I'd get, but not taking an opportunity to delve into it? How does that make us scum?

Yep, we're disconnected. I wish we could be proactively comparing notes, triumphantly catching scum and whatnot, but -this- is what we have.

[Polar Vortex]

Spiffeh got around to giving real reads on Heart and Imperium like I wanted in 1356 and 1357. Woo. Go Spiffeh.

This head is suspicious of Ahsoka, the other one less so. I gave her 3 posts since she was close to lynch

More just flat out disgusting posting from Polar. Why the difference? I'm especially interested in which head was less suspicious, why they were, and what this discussion over Ahsoka looked like.

This slot is scum. These interhydra interactions are bullshit.

Why do you think our disconnection is a sign of scum?

[Polar Vortex]

Do you have reads?

I'm actually curious how you could wonder this unless you ignored my posts and chose not to check my ISO before asking. I've been pretty clear on quite a few reads.

I wasn't the only one wondering. It's one thing to go over your posts and interpret them to figure out your reads, it's another to have you objectively state them.

It's the basis of their Ahsoka vote, of course it's AI. Did they have reasons to think Ahsoka's posts were the scum kind of terrible or was it just BS to justify a vote on a town player?

Which do you think it is?

The first.

This is kinda ridiculous. You're accusing him of being scum and pretending to be drunk (or drunker) to get town read. I don't think Prism's ISO is so devoid of content that you'd have to reach this low to back up your scum read.

That would be ridiculous if that's what I was saying. This discussion has already happened.

Yup and this is still a bad point.

Then he answers your accusation and your reply is "ok, but people do that." There's no reflection from your part on whether or not Prism is that kind of person, nor does his answer seem to affect you in any way. You just stick to what you said. Prism's "drunk" post was manipulative because some people do that kind of thing. That's a terrible argument.

When people you don't know use self meta, do you go "oh, ok, you must be town then"? Because I'm more likely to ignore it.

No, but I don't just ignore it. I take it into consideration, see if it adds up with their posts from the game we're playing. You stuck to your generalization that some people manipulate others with "drunk" posts, ignoring not just the self meta but the whole context of the post and player who posted it. I don't understand how you can read this game, read Prism's posts and think he would have done that. Maybe I'm being ingenuous, but I just don't see it.

You even manage to scum read Prism for liking your post. Did you think it was so unlikely that your post would be liked (it happens sometimes)? Why didn't you ask him why he liked it if your problem was the lack of an explanation? Instead of fabricating reasons to say how him liking your post makes him scum.

Again, this has been discussed. When people just see a lot of words and call it town, that will always stand out to me. And I actually did give Prism the option to be more specific which I don't remember happening.

It doesn't matter if it's been discussed, this is still fundamentally a bad point. It's a generalization, and one that makes no sense given the context. You're not in a position where scum would town read you for making a long post. What makes you think scum Prism do that?

[Ginngie]

Nacho? Where the hell is Nacho? I'm sending an SOS

[Ginngie]

Btw Polar is scum, VNB probs town

KMD I'm waffling

Spiff still feel good about

[Polar Vortex]

Btw Polar is scum

Nope.

[Kmd4390]

Please just never use the word meta and me in the same post because it's irritating that you won't listen to the players WHO ACTUALLY KNOW ME, and you try to put meta as an argument. It's borderline asinine.

I'm not going to use meta because I don't know enough about your meta.

But if Ginngie lurks as scum, it would stand out as odd. The only choice is to try to play in a way that they'll see as town.

I lurk as town as well.

Firebringer Accounting Mafia.

My play style isn't concrete

You're misunderstanding what I meant. I meant if you are scum here and lurk to avoid players who read you well, it would stand out. So it wouldn't make sense for you to do it.

Repeating myself but to make it absolutely explicit: That post was quoted because it showed what I read into your wall, that I thought your read was legitimate but why I think you were wrong. Being wrong on Ginngie and being scum giving a fake read are two very different things and I saw it as the former rather than the latter.

It is relevant now because you specifically highlighted that I didn't explain what I liked about your post indepth. That post is the full response that got clipped out, presumably because you thought it was separate from the oneliner or said nothing about you beyond being an answer.

Ok.

that comes off as making enemies for no reason since camn and NMS would probably let Ginngie get lynched over their dead bodies. Actually a vote on me or Polar would make more sense since there's a vague scumread of me being expressed and Polar is on shaky ground. (of course that would require actually reading the current page to know. ) Why do you have Polar above me on your readslist KMD? Because we were on the wagon and everyone else is a townier read?

You're overthinking my Ginngie vote. I'm not in compromise mode so it doesn't matter where the support is. I'm voting who I think the scummiest player is and hoping people will agree after I post. Polar is townier than you because nothing about Polar stands out as being that scummy. I'm factoring in your Aris vote and the way you danced around Aris maybe being town but stayed on the wagon anyway. I also don't think your points about me being busy and therefore scum are something you actually believe. I had you as town for most of Day 1 though, so that's why you are a weaker read than Ginngie and Prism and on the same level as Leon (although my read on Prism is probably weakening because some of that may have been miscommunication).

No, but I don't just ignore it. I take it into consideration, see if it adds up with their posts from the game we're playing. You stuck to your generalization that some people manipulate others with "drunk" posts, ignoring not just the self meta but the whole context of the post and player who posted it. I don't understand how you can read this game, read Prism's posts and think he would have done that. Maybe I'm being ingenuous, but I just don't see it.

Like I've said before, I don't know Prism. This game hasn't gone on long enough and I haven't been around enough to make that kind of judgement on what Prism would or wouldn't do and that was even more true at the time of my post you're referencing.

You're not in a position where scum would town read you for making a long post. What makes you think scum Prism do that?

Prism has since answered my concern, but to explain where I was coming from: It seems like a lazy and easy stance to see a wall post, go "ooooo words, town", and that's what I was seeing. Especially when the concerns about me are that I've been busy. As soon as I come in and post, especially on Day 1 like it was, some of that will naturally go away. Activity reads typically have nothing to do with alignment and everything to do with RL as is always the case with me, yet those reads still happen and I see all the time how they work. It basically comes down to separating the difference between "this player feels under the radar. it feels off. I genuinely feel this person could be scum" and "well this guy isn't around so he's probably lynchable, so I'll keep that option open". The second one is the one that will back off lazily when activity picks up where the first is more likely to explore what has changed. And of course it's not a clear cut "town always do this" or "scum always do this" but it does stand out when it happens.

[Ginngie]

Btw Polar is scum

Nope.

Oh thanks.


Hey guys Polar is actually town.

they told me so, so it must be true.

Guess I'm just a fucking idiot right?

>_>

VOTE: Polar

[Ginngie]

KMD, you ever find it hilarious how you think people are going to somehow agree with you when the whole game is going "This is town Gin through and through"?

[Polar Vortex]

Btw Polar is scum

Nope.

Oh thanks.


Hey guys Polar is actually town.

they told me so, so it must be true.

Guess I'm just a fucking idiot right?

>_>

VOTE: Polar

I guess so.

[Ginngie]

Who even is scum to you

[Ginngie]

And what so you read me as and why

[Ginngie]

I mean, Leon is getting lynched probably. It was definetly looking like that before I posted. If I was partnered with him, such a late attempt at bussing would be laughable. If I was scum and he town, I'd get much more by continuing to push the KMD wagon and then shout at you for being idiots to lynch Leon. What's the IV for scum me mentioning that? None whatsoever. But you're not interested in details like that, are you Prism?
~Bear

WIFOM statement?

You're setting a condition saying "what would be the optimal play"
When in reality no one can play optimally and a scummy moment happens.

[Ginngie]

and I hate that attitude of "lol looks like Leon is getting lynched"

It sounds like you don't actually care if he is.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, you ever find it hilarious how you think people are going to somehow agree with you when the whole game is going "This is town Gin through and through"?

Not at all. My goal is to lynch scum and if that's a tough goal to accomplish, no, nothing is funny about that to me. I can see where it would be funny to you if you are scum though.

[Ginngie]

[Ginngie]

Okay look, I'm gonna level with ya sister.

You can help me with Polar, or you're today's lynch.

Because to be honest, you don't even have a snowballs chance in hell to lynch me and its a vanity vote and we both know that.

So, what's it going to be?

[Polar Vortex]

Who even is scum to you

This is a really difficult question.

Kmd is my current bet. But I don't know who'll follow him in case I change my mind or he flips scum.

Ok, lets try this opportunity to situate my reads. I feel pretty good about Caryatid being town. I also feel good about Prism. Imperium and Senpai are town leans which would be stronger reads if they posted more. VNB is a tentative town read - I think I'd look into Senpai and Imperium before looking at them again.
That leaves you, Camn, Spiffeh and Leon.

Spiffeh was a town lean, because of the day 1 wagon and such. It made me not want to go there on day 1. But I worry that maybe I was wrong about it. I mean, he was wagoned and suspected by people, people whose abilities I respect. Then there hasn't really been anything in his play today that reassured my day one read. The only thing I liked was that he seems to be as lost as us where reads are concerned, but then so does most everyone else.

Leon, I don't remember seeing anything alarming from the slot, I remember liking his tone and thinking he was lynchbaity. I really have to look into it.

You and Camn. You feel similar. You both have a presence in the game and a strong voice but I don't feel like either of you is using it well. Your reads and votes feel weak and easy and I'd expect more from players who seem more in control of their reads and the game. Right now it does seem likely to me that at least one of you is scum.

So as you see, my reads are a cloudy mess, which I'm slowly trying to define.

[Kmd4390]

Okay look, I'm gonna level with ya sister.

You can help me with Polar, or you're today's lynch.

Because to be honest, you don't even have a snowballs chance in hell to lynch me and its a vanity vote and we both know that.

So, what's it going to be?

I'm not switching at this time. I'm open to compromise later, but not right now.