Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[II Xigbar]

I can't do anything that I haven't already. Xaldin is obvious scum as fuck and I've made it as clear as I possibly can and both of the other wagons have repeated slimy as fuck votes yet people still take them seriously.
Xaldin's a clear scum wagon with scum led by anti-bus Zexion over here searching for viable wagons to throw in front of it, starting with Saix and now with a huge pile up onto Axel.

Roxas I haven't thought was scum for a while. Marluxia's vote itself was bad but she's highly town by play in general and just gutread despite low content. Lexaeus and Larxene, less obvtown, but neither are still on the wagon.

Where's the scum votes here? Why are scum avoiding this wagon so hard? If either of these other wagons are hitting scum, why aren't scum using my hard push as an excuse to jump over here?

If people stop thinking in terms of their own incredibly fallible reads and start seeing things in objective terms it's really clear what's going on here.

[II Xigbar]

I can't babysit this game indefinitely. I am 100% confident that Xaldin flips scum to the point that I'm fine offering to be lynched if they don't. They're just not town.
Nothing in their play is town motivated. The way they talk isn't town motivated. The way other people have maneuvered around trying to keep them alive isn't town motivated.
Unless there's some staunch disagreement with my townreads the only potential scum votes on them were either super short lived or made and kept by an absent slot.

Wagons don't just fucking fade out like this one has. Not with me spending the entire game sitting there. Not with him doing absolutely fucking nothing towny of note.
I'm never unvoting that slot as long as it's alive and if you managed to mentally circlejerk yourselves tomorrow into thinking I was shot to frame him then you deserve to lose.

[VI Zexion]

Backed into a corner when she thought that the wagon was 100% going through she voted and made a huge show of it with this post.
As soon as there's another viable wagon with Larxene switching over she's immediately off this wagon.

Xaldin wagon wasn't going through 100% by any means and you saying it was is ridiculous when you've been making such a ruckus over the past three pages about all this ~Xaldin resistance~ as if the Xaldin wagon is never going through if you don't shout about and it strongarm it through. Another viable wagon = the wagon I've been pushing all dayphase??? Yeah I'm not interested in helping you with the Xaldin wagon even if I think it's a scum lynch, I don't want to spend the rest of the game watching you hard defend Axel and getting away with it rather than the wishy-washy "terrible but not scum" way you've been approaching the slot so far.

Where's the scum votes here? Why are scum avoiding this wagon so hard? If either of these other wagons are hitting scum, why aren't scum using my hard push as an excuse to jump over here?
If people stop thinking in terms of their own incredibly fallible reads and start seeing things in objective terms it's really clear what's going on here.

If Larxene wants to bus I'm not going to stop her. Your reads are infallible? Who even thinks Xaldin is town here? You're speaking to an audience that frankly doesn't exist.

Nothing about the Xaldin wagon has faded out. You're simultaneously saying it's the inevitable lynch and saying the wagon is fading out and there's all this resistance, you're talking out of two mouths and it's creepy as fuck and I'm not following you, sorry.

[VI Zexion]

I get your scumread on me but your thinking here is totally backwards.

Nah. you wouldn't be scumreading me here and if you were you certainly wouldn't make excuses for it.

???
Explaining why / being respectful about it =! making excuses.

[VI Zexion]

Anyway I'm out of time, don't think us talking to each other here is going to be productive anyway at this point.

[II Xigbar]

It felt pretty inevitable before you and Larxene piled back onto Axel with the conftown who hasn't read any of the game but keeps his vote down, yeah.
Otherwise I don't really have anything more to say to you.

[II Xigbar]

Your reads are infallible?

Infallible? nah. But I've never been wrong on a scumread of this stature and you are as aware of that as I am, talking out of two sides of my mouth be damned.

[III Xaldin]

Zex how the can you scumread both me and xig? It makes no sense.

[VI Zexion]

Spoiler: @Xigbar

Let me be completely clear on this in case you actually are town this game. I was really sure you were town at the start of the game and even after you started being super manipulative and started dropping scumtells

that you know and have admitted here

are scumtells I didn't scumread you because I hate scumreading you and you know I do and I am more careful with you and respectful of you than basically anyone I have ever played with in the time that I've played mafia for reasons that you know about, even after I lost my townread on you I still trusted you and voted Xaldin with you and let you know what my concerns with you were, but you ignored them and started discrediting the Axel wagon

which was one of my biggest concerns already

and then when I go back to that wagon (which was actually just me balancing the wagons to 4/4 fyi so that we'd have more information from interactions) you immediately call me scum even though my stance on Xaldin if

nothing else

would have shown you unambiguously that I am not scum in this game and not only that you

use my stance on Xaldin

as a reason to scumread me, your spinning is out of control here trying to weave literally everything that happens as a reason why Xaldin is scum and why anyone who doesn't follow your push is scum and your narratives and reads are contradicting each other left and right and absolutely none of that makes me want to trust you at all and I think regardless of your alignment you should understand that and even though I do think that Xaldin is scum here and have for a while I have no intention of pushing anything else but Axel because you've already shown that if you're scum here you're going to hard defend Axel forever as soon as I'm gone and you're going to get away with it too even though you should know 100% by now that Axel is scum.

[XI Marluxia]

we're getting to the stage now where people need to be taking hard stances

I don't quite agree with this, actually. There are plenty of people with hard stances already, and I think having a couple of people around who are much more impressionable might be beneficial, especially since I'm not using my lack of hard stances as a way to skeeve out of choosing a preferred lynch.

[XI Marluxia]

I think that Xigbar is probably town. I don't think the level that he panics about the game going out of control it it's not going exactly how he desires is faked and I don't think the worry about people interpreting his imminent death as a frame kill is faked.

I think his argument that Zex is scum who hates bussing and is trying to keep their partner alive by saying they're not lynching them to spite Xigbar is a little wonky, though - if Xaldin is scum, Zex most definitely isn't.

[VIII Axel]

I don't feel as confident that you're scum as -others- do but if you vote Xaldin I'll be a lot more willing to townread you.

But I feel exactly how you feel about Saix about Xaldin.

I just don't see scum flashing anywhere with Xaldin's posts rather than inactive player. I've read everything you've said, don't get me wrong, and there was a second where I thought he could be scum. But I don't really see that. I don't even townread the guy, just don't scumread him.

His vote progression is also very strange. He votes Zex in 93 with reasons, then doesn't mention him again and switches to Saix in 143. Seems to be ok in 148, then focuses on Zex again in 249 and 452 with no more mentions of Saix, but leaves his vote there.

Do you think it's impossible for me to have 2 scumreads?

Backed into a corner when she thought that the wagon was 100% going through she voted and made a huge show of it with this post.
As soon as there's another viable wagon with Larxene switching over she's immediately off this wagon.

I am still more than willing to switch to Zexion if you wanna team up there.

Zex how the can you scumread both me and xig? It makes no sense.

Wait - this is your response? To everything? Really?

[Heartless]

Vote Count 1.12

Vexen [1] - Demyx
Saïx [4] - Axel, Lexaeus, Vexen, Luxord
Xaldin [3] - Roxas, Marluxia, Xigbar
Axel [4] - Xemnas, Saïx, Larxene, Zexion

Not Voting: Xaldin

7 to lynch
Deadline: (expired on 2017-08-31 18:46:21).[/color]

[I Xemnas]

UNVOTE:

[VI Zexion]

UNVOTE:

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[IX Demyx]

@Demyx Roxas, Lexaeus, Xigbar and now apparently you as well (???????????). There were probably other slots as well that I'm not really remembering right now.

What about the townreads are baseless tho?

[VIII Axel]

I think that Xigbar is probably town. I don't think the level that he panics about the game going out of control it it's not going exactly how he desires is faked and I don't think the worry about people interpreting his imminent death as a frame kill is faked.

I think his argument that Zex is scum who hates bussing and is trying to keep their partner alive by saying they're not lynching them to spite Xigbar is a little wonky, though - if Xaldin is scum, Zex most definitely isn't.

Xigbar's post about Zexion's vote switch is

right

on the money.

For a player who questions the fuck out of everything, he just randomly switches his vote around? Really? You're going to go with he was being coy for once?

[II Xigbar]

I feel like you should know better than to think that I would be scum here. I don't want to fight you. I feel like you should know that I don't want to fight you. I don't think that I'm forced to fight you here: my position is absolutely fine and while I don't have a 100% chance of getting the lynch that I want through I was in absoultely fine standing. Conversely, with my 100% read claim I'm either bussing, in which case you can lynch with me and question why I wasn't nightkilled later, or I'm about to lynch town while claiming that and be instantly torn apart given -reasons-. Why would I not take this opportunity to make a point about how much better my way (ie bussing) is than your hard defending stance? Why would Axel be worth hard pushing a mislynch to keep alive? I do hard defend in games, occasionally, with players like _________ who are worth it or __________ where I had literally no other options. But this isn't one of those games. And frankly you know better than this: every time I've rolled scum in a game with you I've put you in my townpile and attempted to pocket you. That isn't some magical coincidence and it isn't an aspect of meta that I would change for strategic gain, I do it because it is the strategic gain. I have had a really fucking strong showing in terms of pocketing my friends in general this year and it both makes the game far more enjoyable to cozy up to you and gives me far more control over the game when I have influence over you. Say this is all part of a long protracted play to manipulate you, sure, but I think that you know better than that and with Axel refusing to vote Xaldin despite calling him scum and him trying to push the vote on you I would think that if you were town your conclusion would be that we're both pushing scum rather than that I'm scum hard defending Axel here, and I don't think that I'm wrong.

[II Xigbar]

And frankly I don't think that town you EVER tries to shut down communication here. You should know better than to be that sure ever.

[II Xigbar]

Axel, I'm concerned that you've agreed with me on Xaldin scum but are refusing to vote them. You requested to townblock with me and that means working together and I'd like you to help me with this.

[VI Zexion]

What about the townreads are baseless tho?

Point me to one place where someone makes an argument for town!Axel.

Tell me how many scum jumped all over this shit and pushed Axel:

Spoiler:

@Axel if you don't care then why did you join the game? You have 20 posts and you haven't seemed to care from the start; you haven't talked about reasoning in any depth, you say that Roxas' claim doesn't make sense but your explanation is essentially tantamount to "because", you go from saying that vote on me is terrible to voting me yourself, you shade Luxord by saying he should have hard reads when it's page 2, you poison our early interaction before it even begins and refuse to engage with me, you say you're scumreading Larxene but refuse to vote her for what are basically NAI reasons, your reasoning for your scumread there is completely lacking + you agree with her 83 but don't even challenge or seem to notice the fact that the post doesn't make any sense, you vote me because you think I don't want to talk then when I try to talk to you you deflect and spin some bullshit about me without engaging on anything substantively, you say you've established reads but you haven't - saying "I'd vote Larxene if not for her claim" isn't establishing a read, saying "I scumread Larxene because X, Y, Z" is establishing a read, you shade and discredit Saix for scumreading you rather than respond substantively, you again +1 Larxene despite scumreading her ???, you blankly characterize Roxas/Xigbar as TvT without any reason, you vote Saix without reason, 6 posts into your ISO and I already need a new paragraph because of how disgusting this is...

You refuse to engage with Saix again or elaborate on your scumread, you seem completely convinced that Roxas is town because ??? and are basically ignoring scummy shit from her, you're making fun of Saix for asking for reasoning, you tell Larxene you won't waste your breath on her if she can't read your ISO implying that you've talked about what she's asking about but you haven't at all so this is just more bullshit from you, your "On Saix" consists of "has anyone read this?", calling him scummy for explaining himself and for townreading Luxord for his notes when you responded the same way as did Larxene and you didn't go after Larxene, you're implying that Xemnas' read on Larxene is bad but you scumread her entrance as well and still haven't talked about why so ???, you basically call Xemnas scummy for coasting because you're coasting which just reads like deflection to me, again you're just +1ing various people and not elaborating on anything and just making empty posts.

You say 219 is a great post for determing alignment - what the fuck does that even mean? Pretty much the first actual reasoning you've given all game is for why 224 is a "scumclaim" and it's not even looking at my actual motivation in this game just spinning it as textbook scum in the most superficial manner possible, you try to shade Saix saying that he's contradicting himself / voting without reason when he already talked about why you were scum in a different post so you're again spinning bullshit trying to deflect votes on you, you're trying to spin Roxas' scumread on Xaldin as far more superficial than it is, you're saying wanting to consolidate on a lynch before we're super close to deadline is scummy which it isn't at all especially considering the pace of this game, you apparently townread Vexen because he's trying but you apparently don't care about the fact that Saix is trying ???, you say you don't care even though just a bit ago you were saying "no more nice Axel" for being called out for lurking (and your activity hasn't changed), you say Saix's posts go in circles but don't talk about why, you're apparently frustrated that no one is paying attention to your posts but you're not making more posts to try to be heard or saying things with any more detail to try to be heard. It's like you're trying to act as though you're doing all this ~deep thinking~ about the game behind the scenes but I don't believe you are at all and you haven't given me anything to make me think otherwise.

[Heartless]

luxord has been prodded

[XIII Roxas]

As promised, I have returned.

I can't make sense of your Larxene read or your Axel read.

Remind me to do this in 12-24 hours.

I'd definitely like it if you went back over Demyx's content and come back with what your read is there because a wrong altguess is absolutely something that can skew a read in one direction or another and I'd be interested to hear what your take is now that you don't know what your take is.

Not knowing who Demyx is doesn't change my read of not knowing what Demyx's alignment is. I am almost positive that Demyx is someone in my circle of friends, but while I now know Demyx isn't you, I still don't know who Demyx actually

is

.

I have a feeling I should know Demyx's alignment. But even were I able to pin down Demyx's identity accurately, at this stage I don't think I would be able to even with the aid of that meta. I can't tell. And I

should

be able to tell. And I don't know how to get my grip and suddenly tell. No matter what angle I approach Demyx from I can't figure Demyx out. From play, I can't lock the slot down. From meta, I can't lock the slot down. From presence, I can't lock the slot down. I shouldn't have Demyx as this level of extreme ambivalence. Yet that's the most accurate description of what Demyx is to me.

[XIII Roxas]

(For what little value it adds at this stage Xigbar is in fact a townread but I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly how strong of one. He's moved from being in the ambivalent zone to north of null, but by how far I'd have to spend a little more time on the read to let it mature. I figure this is vaguely important as it removes any interest whatsoever of me voting the slot, but given how improbable it'd be for a wagon there to ever materialize in the first place this is not very relevant to the current happenings.)

[XIII Roxas]

This is not how Town Xaldin talks to me here.

I am strongly inclined to agree and also think it pushes you even further up the town chart.