Newbie 1817 - Bolo (Game Over)

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Post Post #475 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:28 am

Post by Aster »

FancyPants asked me who I thought was scum. My opinion hasn't changed much from yesterday: it's crystal clear that adilm29h is scum. I called this case slam dunk yesterday, and nothing has done to lessen that notion today. In fact, with another lie from adilm today and some nice correlations, the case became even clearer than it already was, to the extent that's possible. With the additional bonus that there aren't any scumpartners left, so can state with confidence that everyone who isn't adilm, is town.

Adilm still seems to be busy doing his old scummery business. Without much thinking, he hammers Gorny because he wants to get some of the bussing bonus and can't risk that somebody else takes the last available spot from him. During the next day when asked to explain, he makes up yet another story which is inconsistent with his earlier statements. With this kind of behaviour, it's almost as if he's just trying to figure out how much bullshit he can get away with.

There's pretty much nothing to say and nothing to discuss. The evidence against adilm has already been stated and I don't feel like repeating it again (u mad, cd?). Adilm being scum implies that everyone else is town. Nobody but adilm is scummy. We know everything we ever need to know.


Unfortunately, some people seem to have started to internalise adilm's towniness as an ideological belief, at which point it may become impossible to convince them otherwise. If somebody believes deeply enough that all grass is red, he keeps preaching that even when standing in the middle of a green grass field. Why? Because the alternative, admitting that they're wrong, is downright unacceptable, so their human brain rejects it.

And at this point, when people start acknowledging that adilm is lying yet still maintain that that isn't a scumtell, the situation starts looking pretty hopeless. Frankly, I'm don't even feel like arguing about this anymore. The pile evidence has been stated and it is at least four times as large as any pile we're ever going to collect against anyone else. If you're still not convinced, I won't be able to convince you.

VOTE: adilm29h
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Post Post #476 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:46 am

Post by cd »

I don't see why I would be mad, but ok.
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Post Post #477 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:08 pm

Post by GreyICE »

It truly takes a higher intellect to make a 4 person scumpool out of a possible 6 players.

Regardless, Aster as usual is dead on here.
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Post Post #478 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:44 pm

Post by cd »

In post 477, GreyICE wrote:It truly takes a higher intellect to make a 4 person scumpool out of a possible 6 players.
What are you trying to accomplish by saying this?
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Post Post #479 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:51 pm

Post by adilm29h »

In post 475, Aster wrote:FancyPants asked me who I thought was scum. My opinion hasn't changed much from yesterday: it's crystal clear that adilm29h is scum. I called this case slam dunk yesterday, and nothing has done to lessen that notion today. In fact, with another lie from adilm today and some nice correlations, the case became even clearer than it already was, to the extent that's possible. With the additional bonus that there aren't any scumpartners left, so can state with confidence that everyone who isn't adilm, is town.

Adilm still seems to be busy doing his old scummery business. Without much thinking, he hammers Gorny because he wants to get some of the bussing bonus and can't risk that somebody else takes the last available spot from him. During the next day when asked to explain, he makes up yet another story which is inconsistent with his earlier statements. With this kind of behaviour, it's almost as if he's just trying to figure out how much bullshit he can get away with.

There's pretty much nothing to say and nothing to discuss. The evidence against adilm has already been stated and I don't feel like repeating it again (u mad, cd?). Adilm being scum implies that everyone else is town. Nobody but adilm is scummy. We know everything we ever need to know.


Unfortunately, some people seem to have started to internalise adilm's towniness as an ideological belief, at which point it may become impossible to convince them otherwise. If somebody believes deeply enough that all grass is red, he keeps preaching that even when standing in the middle of a green grass field. Why? Because the alternative, admitting that they're wrong, is downright unacceptable, so their human brain rejects it.

And at this point, when people start acknowledging that adilm is lying yet still maintain that that isn't a scumtell, the situation starts looking pretty hopeless. Frankly, I'm don't even feel like arguing about this anymore. The pile evidence has been stated and it is at least four times as large as any pile we're ever going to collect against anyone else. If you're still not convinced, I won't be able to convince you.

VOTE: adilm29h
"with another lie from adilm today"
Erm firstly I never lied.
Secondly what you said is not proof. All you have repeated was that im up to my "same scummy business" and how sure you are i am scum.
And the further on continue to say something which is not true?

"Without much thinking, he hammers Gorny because he wants to get some of the bussing bonus and can't risk that somebody else takes the last available spot from him."

Please explain this

and explain what story I made up?
you are just stating things without any evidence.
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Post Post #480 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:55 pm

Post by adilm29h »

And nice of you to add the second bit, to convince everyone that It is hopeless etc. Using that as a leverage for you not having any evidence to lynch me.

I am sorry unless there is solid evidence, we aren't going to lynch someone lol. you can say things like "i am not going to repeat myself"
But no one is going to lynch anyone without solid evidence.
Such as the evidence against GreyIce.
Please amuse me with my "Scum tells" and say it straight to the point with evidence without saying extra things.

"Adilm is scum because xyz. and xyz is a scum behaviour. he has lied here in xyz where as he says zyx over here. this prove he is lying."

Similar to how CD and I have given to GreyIce, How his Absurd behaviour means he is Either a retarded IC or scum for sure. With us going for the latter.
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Post Post #481 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:02 pm

Post by FancyPants »

In post 477, GreyICE wrote:It truly takes a higher intellect to make a 4 person scumpool out of a possible 6 players.

Regardless, Aster as usual is dead on here.
Can we all agree to take the high road from now on, please?
If you are both town consider how happy your bickering is making the final scum.

GreyIce I've given you the benefit of the doubt, but if you continue to be antagonistic I'm going to believe cd that you're stirring deliberately. It has crossed my mind that you're experienced enough to do this.

@Aster, here is my view on adlim.
We live in one of two worlds.

In one adlim is quite a sneaky cunning guy, laying false trails, trying gambits, and in general being as sneaky scum possible, playing the fool and playing us all false.
In the other world adlim is just a careless newb townie, not quite sure how the game works or the ground rules for good play. Also, adlim isn't necessarily acting like I'd expect newb scum to react to pressure.

I just can't let go of the second world, I've seen newb townies make these kinds of mistakes before.

Anyway, I'd really like some more input from Xa Light and Mothergothel. My town read on mothergothel is eroding.
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Post Post #482 (ISO) » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:10 pm

Post by cd »

In post 481, FancyPants wrote:In one adlim is quite a sneaky cunning guy, laying false trails, trying gambits, and in general being as sneaky scum possible, playing the fool and playing us all false.
In the other world adlim is just a careless newb townie, not quite sure how the game works or the ground rules for good play. Also, adlim isn't necessarily acting like I'd expect newb scum to react to pressure.
This is basically how I feel about him, however I'm siding more towards the newb townie side.

Really hoping to see a post from both XL and MG28 when I wake up tomorrow.
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Post Post #483 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am

Post by adilm29h »

once again you guys are stating that im a careless person etc. But please state a mistake made?
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Post Post #484 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:27 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 483, adilm29h wrote:once again you guys are stating that im a careless person etc. But please state a mistake made?
Well the biggest careless thing you did was hammer before Gorny had a chance to claim and people had a chance to comment on the wagon. You got away with it because Gorny was scum but it was still a sub-optimal move.

Other than that general behaviour like being suspicious of people who post too much (Aster and I in the early game) accusing GreyIce of being a PR because he got emotional and that kind of thing.

Maybe not care less but certainly unorthodox.
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Post Post #485 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:31 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 324, adilm29h wrote:Sorry Guys I was out the whole day. I would like to say that I I too have been convinced after Gorny Has been brought into the light, Or shall I say dark.
But anyways, He seems very wishy washy with his reads, where he says one thing and then says the opposite for the same person, which shows that he doesn’t really have any reads on the players, and is just making up some BS as he goes and getting mixed up in his own mind.
UNVOTE: GreyIce
VOTE: Gorny
FancyPants please give your views on the recent Gorny? You have been 're-reading' since yesterday.
My top two suspects at the moment are Gorny, And GreyIce
The reason we say you are lying about knowing about hammering is this ^.

At this stage I'd asked everyone to comment on the Gorny wagon.
Then you hammer.
While hammering you ask me a question - how I feel about Gorny and ask for my reread analysis.

How can these two things logically go together if you knew you were hammering. I can't answer your question if you are ending the day, this doesn't make it seem like you knew you were hammering.

The next day you double down and say you did intend to hammer, in which case why bother asking me a question?

@Adlim, could you please speculate on the night kill. Meaning do you think killing Draynth was a good move?
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Post Post #486 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:35 am

Post by FancyPants »

And yes I know I'm WIFOMing with this NK talk but I am going somewhere with this so just leave it kthxbye.
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Post Post #487 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:51 am

Post by Xalxe »

Vote Count 2.2

The secret to a long life lies in how acutely you perceive time.


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: (expired on 2017-09-09 07:05:29)
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Post Post #488 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:05 am

Post by adilm29h »

I asked you for your reads because Even though I knew I had the Hammer. I thought Gorny would have a "Staage of defense, where he gets some time to explain why he is not scum". And then a revote would occur and then someone would be lynched. If it is someone different, They also get a stage of defense and repeat. I thought this because that's how it is in real mafia, I knew I had the Hammer, But I thought Gorny would go into a stage of defense.

Early game I thought people who talk too much are mafia, because usually that's how I deduct who is scum while playing IRL mafia. But usually its a bit of jitteriness which is a scum tell. I guess I mistook that for a Scum tell, but during Play time I realized that, I may be wrong.
The reason I may play unorthodox is because I am kind of mixed up between real mafia and this, as they are different play styles for it is easy to mask your tone, unless you don't like GreyIce "which I think is done on purpose". I would agree with you if I was playing this in real life, for people may get very emotional in that. Where as in Forum mafia, I feel there is no need to get emotional. Because you are typing and therefore have the option of backspacing, and re reading what you wrote before sending it. This is why I think GreyIce's Outrage is Intentional as a cover up and has no reason to insult another player or get angry, or refuse a question etc.

Last thing I think that Darynth's Kill meant that the person made a silent kill because they wanted to make the game more fun, with active people as Darynth barely contributed compared to others. It would be similar to killing Xa. Every Kill would be a good kill if justified right, and good is a very subjective words, so it may seem different to everyone.
But me personally I guess if they killed someone who was siding with Gorny, That would be a good move and make the game interesting.
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Post Post #489 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:43 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 488, adilm29h wrote:I asked you for your reads because Even though I knew I had the Hammer. I thought Gorny would have a "Staage of defense, where he gets some time to explain why he is not scum". And then a revote would occur and then someone would be lynched. If it is someone different, They also get a stage of defense and repeat. I thought this because that's how it is in real mafia, I knew I had the Hammer, But I thought Gorny would go into a stage of defense.
OK well here is the fundamental misunderstanding.

On this forum it's explicit that hammer means not only a vote majority - but also that the day ends immediately.
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Post Post #490 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:00 am

Post by FancyPants »

So when we asked if you knew you hammered - you saying "Yes I did." tell us that you intentionally cut the day short. Where as for you it just meant running Gorny up to a majority.

I'm kind of feeling the adlim lynch more, but I'd like some input from XL and Mothergothel.
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Post Post #491 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:39 am

Post by adilm29h »

yea i thought he would go into a stage of defence and then get voted out depending on the circumstance.
So based on that you believe I am scum?
Clever of you to not, respond to anything else I said...
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Post Post #492 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:25 am

Post by GreyICE »

You know there was the game rules post.
There was my IC post where I described the procedure for lynching.
There was warnings from other players he was at L-1.

Now accidental quickhammers sadly happen in newbie games, all the damn time. It's not ideal, it's pretty bad, but it's very far from "every one of them is scum".

But I find it hard to believe you missed every single one of those things, that not a one of them triggered any "wow does it work that way on this site?" from you.
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Post Post #493 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:40 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 491, adilm29h wrote:yea i thought he would go into a stage of defence and then get voted out depending on the circumstance.
So based on that you believe I am scum?
Clever of you to not, respond to anything else I said...
If you want to ask me something go ahead.

I'm not convinced of anything yet, I'm still trying to figure out today. I don't think you intentionally cut the day short because that doesn't make any sense, but I think you might be scum independent of that; mostly because of the fact that you've shown quite a lot of interest in almost every single wagon that hasn't been your own, and I don't think much of your reasoning for your votes have been good.

I can see you being scum or newb town, for now, I'd like to explore a world where neither adlim or GreyIce are scum for a bit, but we need the missing players for that.
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Post Post #494 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:43 am

Post by Xa ligha »

In post 342, adilm29h wrote:As I said before voting for him
"I too have been convinced after Gorny Has been brought into the light, Or shall I say dark.
But anyways, He seems very wishy washy with his reads, where he says one thing and then says the opposite for the same person, which shows that he doesn’t really have any reads on the players, and is just making up some BS as he goes and getting mixed up in his own mind."

I voted and hammered him out because for once we were getting some where with some solid reads on people, which others agree on. And to me I do not think we should focus on how people react to the Gorny Lynch, because we have very little evidence to prove that Gorny was Scum. The possibility, that he was town is way higher than the possibility of him being scum. Therefore reacting to people's reads on Gorny being SCUM, and lynching people based on that could prove false for we would be going on False accusations.

And If I was scum I would have lynched CD as the first victim, for he had the strongest opinion on me and has a loud convincing tone, which would easily result in my lynch.

This is the post you would expect adilm to say he thought the game worked differently. The tone here feels different from their explanation of thinking the rules were different. Sorry I haven't been posting much I've had a busy weekend. Im going to go through the game during my lunch and will hopefully have a better post later.

Also what I think about the nk isn't relevant at all. It's just a bunch of guessing and second guessing, so pretend I humored you and explain your line of thought please.

VOTE: adilm92h
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Post Post #495 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:51 am

Post by adilm29h »

FancyPants I am not going on any wagon?
The only Wagon I went on was Gorny, I thought GreyIce was scum for one of the longest time?
It's pretty stupid how there is votes on me when It is pretty obvious GreyIce is scum here with the way he is Acting?
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Post Post #496 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:58 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 494, Xa ligha wrote:
In post 342, adilm29h wrote: Also what I think about the nk isn't relevant at all. It's just a bunch of guessing and second guessing, so pretend I humored you and explain your line of thought please.
Please humour me anyway, NK information is bad information, but it isn't unusable. I've seen games where NK information has helped with the lynching of scum.

@Adlim, I meant the wagons who have been on in the past, not your current wagon (although also your current wagon).
Adlim you've already said yourself that GreyIce is either a bad IC or scum (in your eyes) why is it more obvious to you that she is scum?
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Post Post #497 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:59 am

Post by FancyPants »

Adlim is on L-3 btw.

No hammer please.
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Post Post #498 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:07 am

Post by GreyICE »

IC Note to PRs:


There is 100% guaranteed to be a Tracker, Jailer, or Cop in the game per the setup rules. At this point you know something for a fact: Whoever you targeted last night is almost certainly guaranteed town*. If they investigated town, if they were prevented from submitting any actions, if they didn't visit the night kill, they're town. Now I don't think claiming today is optimal, but whatever you do, make sure if you're shot tonight we can figure out who it was. If you've already done so that's fine, but if you haven't, find a way. As simple as a reads list is fine, someone who is confirmed town is pretty damn townie so they're probably tops.

*the exception is if the jailkeeper is roleblocked by the mafia roleblocker, but this is such an incredibly low chance we can discount it almost entirely.


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Post Post #499 (ISO) » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:15 am

Post by FancyPants »

GreyIce, I've considered such things as well since we won my last Newbie with a mass claim but what if Gorny submitted the kill?
Then the jailkeeper and the tracker tell us nothing.

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