Newbie 1817 - Bolo (Game Over)

[Xalxe]

adilm29h,

Mafia Goon

, Lynched Day 2

Town wins!

[Xalxe]

Setup

adilm29h

* -

Mafia Goon

Xa ligha

* -

Vanilla Townie

MotherGothel28

* -

Doctor

cd

,

rep.

FrozenMagpie

*

-

Tracker

Aster

-

Vanilla Townie

Gorny

-

Mafia Goon

FancyPants

(SE) -

Vanilla Townie

Draynth

(SE) -

Vanilla Townie

GreyICE

(IC)* -

Vanilla Townie

Night Actions

Night 1

adilm29h kills Draynth
MotherGothel28 protects cd
cd tracks Draynth

Private Topics

Mafia
Graveyard

[Xalxe]

I don't necessarily have a whole lot to say about the game from a specific standpoint, but I have to say that this was an excellent group to moderate for. We only had one replacement in the two days this game ran, and that's pretty rare. Those of you who are new, I can't encourage you more to stick around, you were all excellent and I'd love to moderate you again, even as SEs or ICs.

I'd also like to make my regular plug to check out The Whole Sort of General Mish Mash subforum, where I spend most of my time. It's a place for non-mafia games, everything from casual card games to months-long games of Survivor and other reality shows. Check it out, we don't bite, it's a chill place.

Okay! Thread's open! Discuss away!

--Xalxe

[FancyPants]

Thanks Xalxe you did an outstanding job moderating!

Perfect game y'all. I'll comment more after work.

[cd]

Feels good to replace into the game and nail both scum initially. I overthought the situation on day 2, and probably gave adilm way too much credit for his newb-like actions but whatever.

Hostility aside, it was a good (short) game.

[Draynth]

Well played town

[FancyPants]

Yeah WP CD you did a good job of steering the town in the right direction. I was suspicious of Gorny myself but didn't really force my case enough to have convinced anybody.

GreyIce - you are a good player and your IC posts were really good, I'm not sure getting so emotional was necessary but I suppose it happens to us all from time to time. I hope your home life is OK.

MotherGothel - I thought you were pretty sensible and level headed and made some good contributions. Try and contribute a little more in future.

Adlim - In general gambits and sneaky behaviour like the alignment under the name thing, and killing Draynth always backfire. You might have been able to get Draynth lynched if you hadn't killed him. It's far better to just kill somebody universally town read and active like cd/aster/myself. Anyway good luck in future games, I hope you stick around.

Aster - You have all the attributes of a great player, well played but be careful of that old bastard confirmation bias, it's important to be willing to be wrong.

Gorny - I think you played well but just not carefully enough, it's important to keep your story straight and reads consistent at all times, smart townies will always notice when your "mind" changes and will want to know why. I also think that while it's tempting to remain silent when people are braying for your blood, it almost never saves you. Better to kick and scream and get mad than give up too easily.

Draynth - You seemed like a nice bloke, was keen to play more with you (and ready to defend you on day 2) but alas.

Xa Light - Mellow and logical, a great combination, I hope you play more in the future.


Anyway WP all, it was a bit of a team effort in the end, some of the prickly nature of the game sucked but it happens. I think it's important to stay objective and realize both townies and scum can behave badly. Try to leave emotions out of your analysis.

[Draynth]

@adilm

I see you asked in the mafia PT if it was a good idea to hammer Gorny, I think it was.
However I think you could've gone about it a bit better.

Generally what happens is that someone get's wagoned to L-1, then

you declare intent to hammer

, but do not vote them yet. This generally shows everyone that you would like to vote that person but are not doing so to allow them time to claim if needs be, which is a pro town thing to do. Now obviously a scum can fakeclaim a PR here (as you tried to do) but as you also saw it's pretty easy to know if they're lying in the majority of newbie setups. If you hammer someone without declaring intent you are telling people that A) you want the day to end early or B) you're hoping the person being lynched is a PR, both of which are very scummy things to do.

Overall I thought both of you made a great effort and should definitely sign up for more games if you had fun. Being scum in your very first game on the site is probably one of the hardest things to do so I commend you both for your attempt at winning

Well played to all the townies, I apologise if some of you think that I was a bit useless, but some games I just find it very hard to get involved (usually happens early on Day 1). Nice job on the perfect win

PEDIT: Thanks Fancypants, maybe we will see eachother in another game soon

[Draynth]

Woops, Thanks for modding Xalxe

[Gorny]

@FP, I did not give mad or give up, I wasn't able to be online at the time.

Well played town.

Will comment more after work

[MotherGothel28]

Alright, since I'm here to learn to better my game, what can I change? Day1 I had several people finding me scummy. Was it just my aggression against GreyICE? It was a bit over done, I let myself get too caught up in the moment.

As far as Adilm, I think you did great at making us doubt ourselves when. You slipped up. Being the hammer is tricky, even for town, which is why as Draynth said it's best to take that slow and give ample room for a claim before it happens.

Gorny had me sold on him being town. I was pretty freaking sure about it, so I would say he played a great game aside from not being able to keep a consistent read.

GreyICE I think played great aside from getting into confrontations with some of us.

Fancy pants became a pretty clear town asset in day2, keeping things rolling and asking good questions.

Cd, you're my MVP lol, idk that any of us noticed the inconsistency in Gornys reads before you did and without that I think he played a clean game. I attribute this clean win to you.

[FancyPants]

@FP, I did not give mad or give up, I wasn't able to be online at the time.

Well played town.

Will comment more after work

I only meant the post where you said that if you talked any more you would get lynched. It felt defeatist.

[Gorny]

Ah.

[Aster]

Aster - You have all the attributes of a great player, well played but be careful of that old bastard confirmation bias, it's important to be willing to be wrong.

Rest assured that I certainly didn't write post 475 without realising the sheer irony.

Unfortunately, some people seem to have started to internalise adilm's towniness as an ideological belief, at which point it may become impossible to convince them otherwise. If somebody believes deeply enough that all grass is red, he keeps preaching that even when standing in the middle of a green grass field. Why? Because the alternative, admitting that they're wrong, is downright unacceptable, so their human brain rejects it.

I was kinda surprised that I wasn't called out on this: I was calling out others for being insusceptible to reason, while from their perspective, I was clearly the one who was being insusceptible to reason.

It reflects what was happening between cd and GreyICE: a small argument began between them because they disagreed about the definition of some words (a case where there clearly isn't a right or wrong side), but then the issue became personal and their minds just flipped to "everything the other party is stupid" therefore "the other party is insusceptible to reason, I'm talking sense."

I thought giving an example of how a person could be unreasonable while thinking everyone else is unreasonable, might help some people to get a bit more perspective.

[Xa ligha]

Good game guys.

[GreyICE]

Thank you, you were a great crop of newbies!

I'm going to give

Aster

the MVP for day 1, simply from the combination of voting record and clear cases. If you look she spent probably 80% of the game with her vote on either Adlim or Gorny. Her reasoning was clear and concise, and I loved her posting for basically the same reason I said in my first reads list - clear, well-thought out townie posting that makes perfect sense. If she can pull that off as scum then she's legitimately insanely good, and she's an asset to any town she's on. With posting like that I can't see scum ever mislynching her.

Day 2, no question,

FancyPants

was the MVP. If I'm giving it to a newbie, which seems fairer,

cd

despite driving me insane was clearly town, pushed a lynch on scum, and was a loud enough voice that scum have to night kill him. Although if I may make a suggestion, if you ask "what about this person", don't follow the reply with "lol, you're delusional" then follow up with "hey, how about these people?" It doesn't lead one to believe that further responses will be met with anything other than insulting dismissal. It didn't help Aster's case on Adlim was legitimately quite good (and also happened to be right).

MotherGothel

clashed early with me, but it was more serving as a barometer for the town than anything else at that point. She managed to look quite town at points, and - again I won't take credit for things I never got a chance to do - I was moving away from her before I got sick. It was especially good doctor play because you were deep under the radar, and the doctor claim would have made you confirmed town. It was basically "exactly scummy enough to live a long time, townie enough not to get wagoned ahead of other people" which is the best spot for a power role to be in.

Xa Lingha

was a good townie who just made sense. This seems easy to dismiss, but getting a mislynch on you would have taken a lot of work from the scum. I think you played excellent.

Draynath

... well, you managed to eat a night kill, meaning scum didn't want you alive. Can't complain too hard about any Vanilla Townie who gets shot by scum night 1. Means they weren't shooting a PR, and that means you've done your job.

Gorny

- You started out very strong, with good posting and tone. In another town that might have carried it, unfortunately you got stuck in a newbie game with EXCELLENT newbies. Usually you get at least one person asking "why are we lynching day 1, we could no lynch" etc. In this sort of town where the low bar of play was set at "good" getting a mislynch was fantastically difficult. If you're stuck in that situation again though, remember the first rule of being wagoned (and this goes for either alignment) - you don't have to be faster than the bear, you have to be faster than the slowest player. If you can find someone else to pin a wagon on, then the bear will often turn (especially since you have a buddy invested in it turning). That being said, you were in the tough spot of there being limited choices to turn the bear towards. I still think your early game was very good.

Adlim

- you had the experience of playing as mafia for your first forum game, where unfortunately everyone can remember and analyze everything you ever said, including throwaway statements. That's a tough situation from face to face - you can't give anything away with facial clues, but little things you say because you think they are the towniest sounding that would probably go unnoted in face-to-face gets dragged into the light quickly. It was still a good hustle, and I'd like to see you as town sometime.


Overall, very well played. A good application of "lynch all liars" at the end, and a homing missile on prevarication. Overall the sort of excellent town play that results in a flawless game.

[GreyICE]

Also @adlim based on the mafia thread: let Gorny at least claim a power role. At a minimum you can draw out a counterclaim and have a good idea who to shoot.

[Gorny]

Alright, since I'm here to learn to better my game, what can I change? Day1 I had several people finding me scummy. Was it just my aggression against GreyICE? It was a bit over done, I let myself get too caught up in the moment.

As far as Adilm, I think you did great at making us doubt ourselves when. You slipped up. Being the hammer is tricky, even for town, which is why as Draynth said it's best to take that slow and give ample room for a claim before it happens.

Gorny had me sold on him being town. I was pretty freaking sure about it, so I would say he played a great game aside from not being able to keep a consistent read.

GreyICE I think played great aside from getting into confrontations with some of us.

Fancy pants became a pretty clear town asset in day2, keeping things rolling and asking good questions.

Cd, you're my MVP lol, idk that any of us noticed the inconsistency in Gornys reads before you did and without that I think he played a clean game. I attribute this clean win to you.

That's why I went with the Stargate bit

[MotherGothel28]

Lol, I'm not THAT easily sold!

[FancyPants]

I would like to change my vote
UNVOTE: MotherGothel28
VOTE: GreyIce
GreyIce's profanity and irrational behaviour must tell me that he is some power role. For if it was something helping the town, I feel like he would have spoken differently. But I feel like he is Mafia, for a townie would have no reason to add swearing and be hostile.

Hmmmm.

Usually I find this kind of thing to be a pretty big scum tell, I don't feel like townies are too concerned with who may or may not be a power role, but scum are constantly looking out for it.

CD makes a few good points about adlim as well.

As a general side note, the most terrifying thing for scum is a unified town, let's all try to be less toxic and try and see each others points of view more (myself included).
As townies it can be hard since we don't know who to trust but try to remember that 75% of the player base is on your team.

InterestING to note and I should I trusted this instinct, people who look like they are PR hunting (especially newbs) are trouble.

[GreyICE]

Hey give me some credit!

[PenguinPower]