Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: Larxene

Strongest scumread as of now.

They fail. Like a roleblock. What else would it mean?

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

These both, to my mind, feel like weird reactions to being prodded about the investigative immune claim. I would expect that town would understand that they would be questioned about the investigative immunity.
Rather than be clear about things, she gets sort of defensive with the 'what else would it mean' and makes an odd comment about me saying it in a totally confusing way when immune isn't really a mafia term and ascetic is.
Even just the phrasing of 'I'm investigative immune, losers' is a little more aggressive than I would expect from such a claim from town and altogether I feel like they're defensive and overly aggressive in a scummy way.
Them not clarifying what investigative immune in their first post also feels somewhat off, and overall it felt like they were trying to push the game to just accept it and move on.

VOTE: Vexen
Let's see you actually do something, Vexi! <3

VOTE: Roxas

Both posts felt played up. Larxene is definitely not obvtown, Luxord is definitely not obvscum.

Larxene might not be obvi town but she is so far the most town player here. Dont get where the Luxord obvscum is coming from

What's the point of even making this distinction? Why am I the towniest here, anyway?
This is your only post worth looking at and it doesn't say much.

Lexaeus is probably town. Or super excited scum, but I'd rather just call him town.

This is really weird. Are you essentially saying that you townread them for being excited? Because that's not a towntell and that feels like a lazy reason to townread someone. The immediate waffling about the townread feels bad too.

Roxas votes are bleh, tbh. He's pretty town.
I was onboard with Luxord scum until I saw him copy his notes. I don't really care about the content but I don't see any scum there. The guy has an honest face~! I wanna see more once he gets a foothold.

She townreads 10 for the votes (which I did, too, with the caveat that I townread him before the notes) but doesn't engage intellectually with it at all and just says they don't care about the content, which is another super lazy read.

Actually I'll just elaborate. Vexen and Axel are the scummiest here right now, full stop. If Luxord's scum he doesn't know what the heck to do right out of the gate, and I'm extremely interested in what he has to say on his return. I'm not a very patient girl, either.

Again, coming up with a townread and then immediately backs off on that townread by saying that she's now interested in what he has to say upon his return.
Why are Vexen and Axel the scummiest here, anyway? You said that you could vote Axel after a quote (and I do agree that post is somewhat scummy) but you've said nothing about Vexen this game. So, why?

Then after a few posts one of which is the easiest as fuck softball question to you then the player who he said "if you're scum to" becomes the strongest read. Then at the end of the day "weren't really close"

Furthermore Xig states that it is a "weird" reaction. That is a copout if I ever heard one. Saying something is weird is empty and vacuous. Xig posts a lot of words sure but they mean nothing.

[V Lexaeus]

And a neg utility is SUPPOSED to just claim it and Game moves on like wtf?

[IV Vexen]

Can you like.. actually explain to me why Xigbar is scum for reasons that aren't that he's chainsaw defending me?
Because oddly enough, that's not super compelling to me lol.
Or why Vexen is town.

I'm not going to ignore my reads because you tell me I should for no reason.

Nothing he's done today has had a town perspective behind it at all. He has wanted my lynch to the exclusion of all else, including Zex and Axel, because he had an amazing scumcase against me. Give me a second and I'll go quote it, but it's pretty clear he was lying out of his ass. Til that point.

[X Luxord]

Seems kind of wrong to take that question at face value instead of as a hypothetical?
There's also a pretty big gap of time from start of day and end of day.

P-Edit: Again, it seems more like a hypothetical question so I don't understand your point.
Rest of what you're saying feels like you're reaching :/
If you really think Xig is scum, compile something substantive that isn't just your kneejerk reaction to a post, because it really doesn't mean anything to me.

And a neg utility is SUPPOSED to just claim it and Game moves on like wtf?

I don't understand what this means.

Nothing he's done today has had a town perspective behind it at all.

He has wanted my lynch to the exclusion of all else, including Zex and Axel, because he had an amazing scumcase against me

. Give me a second and I'll go quote it, but it's pretty clear he was lying out of his ass. Til that point.

It's unusual to want to lynch your most confident scumread?
There's no momentum for a Zex wagon and he's VLA. What would the point even be in trying to push for that?
And he's openly admitted multiple times that Axel is a weak read?

[V Lexaeus]

I can't babysit this game indefinitely. I am 100% confident that Xaldin flips scum to the point that I'm fine offering to be lynched if they don't. They're just not town.
Nothing in their play is town motivated. The way they talk isn't town motivated. The way other people have maneuvered around trying to keep them alive isn't town motivated.
Unless there's some staunch disagreement with my townreads the only potential scum votes on them were either super short lived or made and kept by an absent slot.

Wagons don't just fucking fade out like this one has. Not with me spending the entire game sitting there. Not with him doing absolutely fucking nothing towny of note.
I'm never unvoting that slot as long as it's alive and if you managed to mentally circlejerk yourselves tomorrow into thinking I was shot to frame him then you deserve to lose.

Look at this too.

He fights strongly for Xaladin then offers to be it the next day.

Then just gloms onto a survival wagon on Vexen.

[V Lexaeus]

Seems kind of wrong to take that question at face value instead of as a hypothetical?
There's also a pretty big gap of time from start of day and end of day.

P-Edit: Again, it seems more like a hypothetical question so I don't understand your point.
Rest of what you're saying feels like you're reaching :/
If you really think Xig is scum, compile something substantive that isn't just your kneejerk reaction to a post, because it really doesn't mean anything to me.

And a neg utility is SUPPOSED to just claim it and Game moves on like wtf?

I don't understand what this means.

Nothing he's done today has had a town perspective behind it at all.

He has wanted my lynch to the exclusion of all else, including Zex and Axel, because he had an amazing scumcase against me

. Give me a second and I'll go quote it, but it's pretty clear he was lying out of his ass. Til that point.

It's unusual to want to lynch your most confident scumread?
There's no momentum for a Zex wagon and he's VLA. What would the point even be in trying to push for that?
And he's openly admitted multiple times that Axel is a weak read?

Simple.

Millers go "I am a miller" >> Game moves on.
Ascetic goes "I am ascetic" >> Game moves on.

That is what a neg utility is supposed to do.

Like how do you have enough experience to play in an alt game and NOT get this?

And nice adjective too. That is what mafia IS: Posting about reactions. You could literally boil anything I say to that and try to sweep it under the rug.

[X Luxord]

I'm just so stupid
it's not that I don't understand what that point has to do with Xig because you're throwing together points with no seriously thought out context
it's that I'm just a fucking dumbass who doesn't understand that negative utility is supposed to claim at the start of the game.
(:

And nice adjective too. That is what mafia IS: Posting about reactions. You could literally boil anything I say to that and try to sweep it under the rug.

Do you think that your points are going to be compelling to anyone that isn't you right now?
And that this is exclusively going to be a me problem?

[V Lexaeus]

I'm just so stupid
it's not that I don't understand what that point has to do with Xig because you're throwing together points with no seriously thought out context
it's that I'm just a fucking dumbass who doesn't understand that negative utility is supposed to claim at the start of the game.
(:

And nice adjective too. That is what mafia IS: Posting about reactions. You could literally boil anything I say to that and try to sweep it under the rug.

Do you think that your points are going to be compelling to anyone that isn't you right now?
And that this is exclusively going to be a me problem?

Yes.
Me and my big ol backside agree that I think my points are compelling. Gonna wait and see what others think.

[X Luxord]

Consider me still voting Vexen in 12 hours at this point!
Is it bad that I more hope I'm right because it'll make you eat your words?
(:

[X Luxord]

Xemnas
-----------
Lexaeus
-----------
Saïx
Axel
-----------
Roxas
Xigbar
-----------
Zexion
Marluxia
Xaldin
-----------
Demyx
Vexen

If anyone cares at this point.
Zexion tier is null.

[V Lexaeus]

Consider me still voting Vexen in 12 hours at this point!
Is it bad that I more hope I'm right because it'll make you eat your words?
(:

I wouldn't worry about my eating habits if I were you. I could spend the night eating away in front of a TV but I am getting some exercise instead And I am not surprised you don't want to vote your buddy. Nothing will convince you. I am making the argument for others not myself and not for you. You're not gonna just go "I am scum. Lexaeus is right." Except that is what you are doing today.

[X Luxord]

How bad are you going to feel if Xig and I are both town?

[V Lexaeus]

How bad are you going to feel if Xig and I are both town?

I won't because if you are your play/predecessors play was shit.

As Town you don't neg utility someone in secret.
As Town you don't say "If you were scum would you" << Big fucking scumtell unless used in the mid to late game where there is actually a case/mechanics discussion with it. Instead Xig forces the discussion with that.

As Town you just don't make the posts y'all are making. And if you do I have sads.

[X Luxord]

Is it really valid for someone to call someone shit if all of their reads were wrong?
(:

[X Luxord]

Lets make my vote in six hours.
And I'll subtract an hour every time you make me want to get closer to the game being over!

[IV Vexen]

Spoiler: Not even close to townposting

That's just me trying to bridge the gap for the benefit of people who are uncomfortable with their reads on me and trying to get them to understand why my read transition has happened like it has.
I'll get a case more focused on why they're specifically scum at some point today, probably later rather than sooner because I'd like to take a week off and see what people do to get reads. I don't want to be leading 100% of the time.

Marluxia, you think that Axel is scum? How do you feel about Vexen chainsawing the fuck out of everyone who goes after him? Everyone, that is, except Zexion, who he only asks questions to.

Literally no elaboration on the chainsaw bit here, even when asked, btw.

Also: Zexion is super anti bus. But if someone had a super, super protown role to claim and they'd be able to get out of it easily, plus all 'HEY ZEXION WOULDNT DO THAT' that would come out of it...

And that knee jerk 'you would find scum in a nunnery. zex never says that to me I really don't think. feels like her freaking out because im acumreafinh her buddy.

It's okay. Don't worry about Vexen. He doesn't survive today in any universe.

The only question is do I absolutely break this game tonight or tomorrow.

I'll wait 24 hours. Time is, after all, on my side.

Especially considering that your join date is

after mine

.

I'm 100% no questions on your identity. There's a single answer as to who you are and it's only become more and more obvious as the game goes on.

So, who do I start with Mr. Christmas?

Okay, so he's devoted like 6 posts to "Hehehe I know who you are" when it took almost 0 effort to find out and I wasn't hiding it. Still nothing about why I'm scum though.

Snip
IV Vexen: I scumread. This later.

Snip

That leaves three people, all of whom I individually scumread to various extents, and all of whom have weird as fuck associations with each other. Not original trilogy associations like I had before where I was like gradually cutting people out and sure this is bad this could be scum, there's some serious dirt here.

Zexion, I do not have your support on a Vexen lynch, correct?

Hey.

I'm here for a bit if you want to chat.

I don't really have the time to put together a coherent case for Vexen scum either today or tomorrow, so that leaves Tuesday.

"I have time for anything except arguing my top scumread."

I'm having a great deal of trouble actually putting my thoughts into words here because I'm fucking tired and I have to get up in 5 hours
It's really dumb that I basically solved this game but I just have never been in a situation where I had the time and energy to do this. Just too much going on in my life.
I can be super convincing when I have that but now I'm just sorta useless and I can't do much about it.

Making a bad case on Vexen is worse than no case at this juncture. He's still flipping scum and I implore Demyx and Saix, both of whom have expressed general support for the wagon, to vote there.
Saix is flipping town and unless we pull this together here it's a loss.

Sorry that I was somewhat bad yesterday but it's really hard to lynch scum consistently on D1. I still believe that, besides Axel who we unvoted for role reasons, my play was generally good. Larxene absent unfortunately, and I did ask for an extension that we didn't get so we ended up deadline lynching and absent slot, which is super unfortunate but. The long deadline does that to games.

Just please do me the favour of either flat out trusting me on Vexen or withholding your judgement and vote until Tuesday.

Because I'm trying to Lynch confscum

At this point I'm just waiting till tomorrow and hardclaiming a guilty on him first thing if I'm alive.

If not, your faults for not lynching him today.

Vexen was pushing Saix? so there you go.

Also, now there's also Vexion, but I think she's already won the game for scum since town is being really dumb.

We share 2/3 of our scumreads. Why don't you get past the fact that you feel the urge to policy lynch me and instead direct your energy at lynching Vexscum?

Yes, no case. Mafia has deprived me of enough sleep. Bed. I have the vast majority of my day free tomorrow.

For the first time on Day 2 I have the night properly free to spend on this.

Case tonight.

Nope no case coming. No energy for mafia I guess.

I am actually really sorry. I understand that people have high expectations of me. I just can't be who I want to be right now.

I also have a commute which can prevent me from dying as one of my abilities.
So.

Want that infinite bulletproof yet? vote Vexen.

Oh man did you get lucky that this happened during the intersection of TIFF, second week of classes, and a bunch of personal drama.

Guys for the love of annie just lynch this scum ass son of a bitch please.

VOTE: xigbar

1 you are all pretty shit
2 it's still zex vexen Axel but feel free to Lynch lex for being as bad as he is

Man how do TTH's games always end up being so shitty for me to play

VOTE: Vexen

Want to talk about claims matching the play?

Pedit: Why would my claim make any difference in the matter?

Of course it would make a difference. But if you're the one stuck with the ninja and/or strongman which you can't exactly claim for towncred, well, unfortunate.

12 Larxene: Mass tracker counter, bla
5 Lexaeus: Strongman
+1

Mehhhhhhh
Guess there doesn't like, HAVE to be a strongman.

Luxord, if you vote Larxene I'll swing my weight to make that lynch happen over yours.

It's sort of funny that I just had a complete panic attack over my inability to figure out who the strongman on the scumteam was and wanted to change all the wagons for it, lol.

(between boldly lying about not having seen the role and just the format of the question, feels bad. As for an answer, if scum don't have a strongman my role is literally game breaking)

My how the time does fly.

Luxord's claim is... interesting. I also believe it, though I disagree that it doesn't make sense as scum. While it isn't an explicitly scummy role, it seems to me like it's got decent benefit either way.

And Xigbar, I've gotta ask...
What made you think there was a Strongman in the first place? It's not really a role I see super often... Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen it in ANY of my games on-site.

This slot is not only scum it's probably the strongman.

in fact there is a person on this site who may or may not be me who has personally been a strongman in two separate games with them.

I have been saying there has been a strongman since early D1 because it was mentioned in my role PM. Further, I was deliberately hunting off flavours to try to find the aforementioned strongman.
I went through one phase where I was like meh maybe TTH is trolling me but I doubted it even then and with all the claims there is obviously a fucking strongman.

Further: I have an alternate ability that I can use if I don't block the shots on me. I don't want to out it because it loses a lot of its value but my alternative role is in fact investigative and insanely helpful in this setup for tracking down fakeclaims. I guarantee you that if you lynch me and see my flip you will correctly realize that you are all fucking awful for voting me because my role likely constitutes a huge share of our power budget.

Now: let's talk about Vexen's claim. He claims that he's a protective that if it targets the same target twice it becomes an investigative. That makes little to no fucking sense.
You use protectives on people that you want to stay alive. You use investigatives on people that you think are scum. It's entirely working at cross purposes and it's a role that TTH would never design for that reason.
Not to mention that he has been an obvious scumfuck since like early day 1.

He clearly has the time to defend himself, but his case is still absent. Because it's not real and he's been lying about it.

Vexen has implied that I was worried about eating the nightkill: yes I was because at the level of control and townread I had on day 1 I'd obviously be strongmanned if I'm killed at all. Protectives would always be on me. I believe I also specifically requested at some point that protectives not target me but I'm not going through my ISO again to find it. Vexen also immediately after claiming a role that's at a power level of non-consecutive alignment cop said that he wouldn't die tonight. Why would he randomly not die tonight if he's on the kill list. Like it's super fucking obviously scum just making an excuse for this shit.

I am currentely at L-2 because two players, Saix and Xaldin, are voting me for entirely outside of game reasons. I personally think that should be against the rules and I have made as much clear, but I feel I have been objectively obvious town. The one, single thing that I can't adequately fake in my scumgame is the paranoid shuffling of votes near the EoD: and this isn't the first time I've said that. I've said it to multiple people in this game even. I shuffled my votes off of Luxord and Axel because I was looking for a claim that seemed made up because it probably coincided with the strongman and I wanted the strongman dead so I'd have free reign to break the game without threat of nightkill: Lux and Axel's were both confirmable and probably did not overlap with the strongman, although I will point out that Axel's theoretically could if the strongman flavour was just like Eternal Flames or something.

I don't have to claim anything here, and if I did have to fakeclaim I wouldn't have picked a fakeclaim that steps on Larxene's toes with the asceticness or like everyone's toes with the being nightkill immune that's essentially a parallell role to Roxas. It happens that there's a shit ton of overlap in the mechanics in this game, which is sort of common for a TTH game, but I have no reason to fakeclaim something like this as scum.

I have been saying Vexen is scum. If I had had more time I would have been able to make a case that would just break this game apart but now I just don't.

Remember that
1) Vexen made comparisons to Thor accusing me of being egotistical because I thought Vexion was pocketing me. While he claimed to not know who I was. That makes absolutely no sense: pocketing usually has nothing to do with a players level of competence or expertise, it has to do with outside of game relations. However if he's scum who was told who I was by his partner, it makes a lot of sense that he'd accuse me of being egotistical via proxy because that's how he thinks of me and he didn't properly cut bit of information that out of how he treated my slot. It's a clear slip of information that he claimed not to have. Also, the point at which he has the sudden dawning realization of my identity makes little to no fucking sense: it's not hard to figure out who I am based on style and the way I was treated in thread and he's played with me recently. Him suddenly figuring out my identity because I got pissy about him not figuring out my identity makes little to no sense and his realization itself feels so fucking fake, right down to the OMG INVEST HIM!!!. Wait, if you're the investigative, why wouldn't, like, you know, YOU invest me? Keep me alive if I'm town, sort me if I'm scum. But obviously he wasn't planning to make this claim at the time.

This describes 0 people. Why are you lying?

And how the fuck does he know what my relationships with people who exist are? I could just be wrong, but

why does he think that I'm describing someone nonexistent if he DOESN'T KNOW WHO I FUCKING AM.

2) Look at how Vexen reacts to Axel being voted. He absolutely freaks out at Saix about how bad the vote is . He even preemptively, while claiming to have a null read on Axel, makes excuses for not voting . He's also way, way too fucking concerned with me and Zexion knowing each other: it's pretty obvious based on the way that we're talking that we know each other and there's no real reason to have a doubt about that. But if you're scum who is trying to pretend to be town and pretend you don't know who we are it's understandable that you'd overcommit and go that angle because you weren't properly thinking through your town thought process. And look at this chainsaw.

Convince me Axel's scum, cause your 144 just seems like a big ball of nulltells on Axel and hypocrisy from you, and I'm not seeing a more cohesive case from you.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

3) he's just generally scum. Luxord, if it were me being that confident you wouldn't townread me so don't fucking townread this guy for it. He's obviously not scum!RC 2.0 but he's more than competent enough to play this scum game: not one that I think is particularly impressive, I actually think he's kind of obvious scum, but I don't think that matters now. I made a case far earlier based on the way that he was talking and it still holds. There is absolutely no fucking reason his dumb ass should be alive right now and he is only so because scum have been not bussing, besides a throwaway vote by Zexion that she backed off of immediately when she had the chance.

Blatantly lying about my telling him that worrying about being the strongman kill on N1 is suspect (by comparing him to Thor) and criticizing both wagons on replace in when neither had so much as a single reason behind them.

Vexen [1] - Xigbar

Marluxia: get your ass back over here.
Roxas: I don't give a shit what your read is here anymore. Remember when I said FA was scum and you kept insisting Shiro was town? That's this kind of game. If only for KH you owe me this vote.
Luxord: plug your nose and fucking do it and worry about if I'm scum bussing after.
Saix/Xaldin: I have been defending both of you and both of you are vote parking me out of sheer salt. Don't fucking be like that.
Xemnas: Just vote with me I have no idea who you are but this flips scum 100%

That's more than 6 votes.

This is where the game is won or lost because I fucking guarantee you that if you don't lynch scum with me today you'll never lynch scum. You'll get caught up on some shit Demyx wagon, then lynch the people who were vote parking me, and you'll drown in your general lack of competence at this game as a group. Me taking some time off is not at all AI, nor is it relevant to the strength of my reads: if anything the fact that I came back and did a complete reset and still had Vexen as 100% scum is a testament to the strength of that read. If he flips town Saix can fucking vig me and I will not block the kill.

Look at how awkward Vexen was in terms of dealing with the personal stuff between me and Zexion. Look at his awful OMGUS. Look at Zexion freaking out and saying that I'd find scum in a nunnery with that kind of case on Vexen (which she would NEVER have said to me as town.) Look at Zexion's comment about how she is playing this game with a specific playstyle that she no longer likes: I cannot go into any more detail on that but that is literally a scumclaim in the truest word and it happened because at the start of the day all 3 scum were caught and they thought the game was just going to end.

I don't have a clue who you are Saix and I don't care. I talked to the mods about this recently because I've been fed up with dealing with this crap and was told that this is in fact outside of game influences and playing against your win condition. You have no credible ground to stand ton claiming that you have an actual scumread on me with how open you've been about being a dick and voting for me because you don't like me. If you have an issue with me that prevents you from playing this game to your win condition then you can fucking leave. If you want to play the actual game then I am totally fine with that too. But what you're doing not is not okay in the spirit or word of site rules and I look forward to reporting you after game if you continue to play against your win condition.

Well, I get that.

But this is a space where I think one would be justified given how hard lynching Vexen is despite how objectively scummy he is.

Yes, lynching a claimed doc is hard. And objectively scummy implies you have a reason behind scumreading me, which seems to be entirely absent.

I could post more, but it's literally everything on page two of his ISO. He spent all day talking about how he was going to win and get me lynched because he had sweeping reasons to get me lynched, but even when he had the time the last few days, he doesn't share a single one. He instead argues against his own lynch and insults people who don't go along with him. He outright admitted he was making this "more toxic than normal" because he hadn't put enough time in. Tell me a single fucking town post out of the whole lot. I dare you to try and find one. You won't, because it simply isn't there.

And yet, his entire reason to lynch me is that he's obvtown and you should all sheep him. And if you notice, it's incredibly important to him that my lynch go through today. Because if it doesn't his team won't ever get to lynch me. They'll be forced to shoot me. Xigbar IS going down. The only question is whether he's lynched today or tomorrow.

Personally I don't sheep people who are provably lying about having reasons to vote someone. But that's on you.

[V Lexaeus]

@Vexen you claimed doc?? Where?

[IV Vexen]

1736 stands as my last will.

Lux will most certainly vote me as soon as he feels he can get away with it, because to him his scumbuddy needs to get through this 1v1 to survive til tomorrow, and I'm pretty much the only one who would call him out on it. It's okay though, because you guys can lynch Xig and then him and be in a pretty damn good position.

I do think Zex is a likely third, but that read is orders of magnitude weaker than my others.

[IV Vexen]

@Vexen you claimed doc?? Where?

Not outright doc, but it's functionally my role. Link momentarily, but I roleblock everyone who targets my target, including NK's. If I target them twice I cop them.

[V Lexaeus]

1736 stands as my last will.

Lux will most certainly vote me as soon as he feels he can get away with it, because to him his scumbuddy needs to get through this 1v1 to survive til tomorrow, and I'm pretty much the only one who would call him out on it. It's okay though, because you guys can lynch Xig and then him and be in a pretty damn good position.

I do think Zex is a likely third, but that read is orders of magnitude weaker than my others.

Please answer my question Vexen it is VERY important.

Doc is too short a word to search.

[X Luxord]

He's claimed rolestopper investigative.

[V Lexaeus]

@Vexen you claimed doc?? Where?

Not outright doc, but it's functionally my role. Link momentarily, but I roleblock everyone who targets my target, including NK's. If I target them twice I cop them.

Why do you think Town would have two roleblockers?

[V Lexaeus]

Oh rolestopper okay huge difference.

[X Luxord]

Lol.
"Huge difference."
The quote is literally the definition of rolestopper.
Ahahahaha

[V Lexaeus]

That is interesting.

Is there a list of claims somewhere?