Newbie 1823 - Game Over

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:39 am

Post by Huntress »

Vote Count 1.4adilm29h (3) - Virtuoso, Clemency, SIV36
Virtuoso (2) - Rubicon, Maestro
Clemency (1) - adilm29h

Not voting (3) - Archwing, FancyPants, Fenraiser


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Friday, 29th September, 12 noon GMT, (in (expired on 2017-09-29 12:00:00)).
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:19 pm

Post by SIV36 »

In post 98, FancyPants wrote:Hi all back from my VLA.

The last newbie I played had adlim in it and he pulled a similar stunt: viewtopic.php?p=9512754#p9512754

He was scum last game but all this really establishes is that adlim likes to make gambits.

My initial thought is "no scum in their right mind would do something so stupid." but considering I played a game with him recently where he did something relatively similar as scum I'm going to find it hard to reconcile town-adlim.
I can see him gambiting as either alignment.

More importantly Rubicon made a good point in , if you were gambiting in an effort to draw out the scum, why vote Clemency? You need to explain your thought process here clearly.

@Archwing, please explain your thought process in , particularly the last line?
@Jamiet99uk, welcome to the game, please weigh in with your thoughts?

Gun to my head I'd say Rubicon and SIV look town in that they appear to be trying to figure out the game at least.

I read some of that game. Yet it doesn't convince me that he's just trying to stir things up. He was mafia, and asked if the titles under people's names actually depicted their role while having "goon" under his own name. Then after, he didn't mention anything about trying to trick people, but covered it up as best as he could by explaining that he kinda figured that it was meaningless and just wanted clarification. Then that event ended as that. It doesn't suggest to me that he's prone to gambits. It suggests to me that he's prone to making slips as mafia.

Assuming you are a reasonable person, do you think his last game really does justify that what happened this game was NAI? If you don't mind, what I would like is a very clear statement about what your position is on adilm's slot.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:40 pm

Post by SIV36 »

Oh shit, at that time he had "town" under his name. I'm sorry, that was bad of me.
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:44 pm

Post by Virtuoso »

@ adilm29h - have you played on other forums? If so can you provide some games that you played?
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:26 pm

Post by FancyPants »

In post 127, SIV36 wrote:Oh shit, at that time he had "town" under his name. I'm sorry, that was bad of me.
Yes at the time he had townie or town under his name which changed the context from "actual question" to "attempt to trick people".

As to my position on adlim's slot I'm torn. A large part of me is thinking "There is no way in hell scum adlim does this kind of shit again." but that's not very good logic, after all he knew I was in this game again, perhaps that's exactly what he wants me to think.

I gave him a lot of credit using that kind of reasoning last game and he eventually flipped scum. I worry that we can't really afford to take him further into the game in either case, how are we ever going to be comfortable with town adlim? Especially when he makes posts like "Clemency is town because his posts are scummy kek?" is this a player we are going to ever be comfortable with as a town read? Will this debate ever actually end?

So in short I'm comfortable which his lynch, it's a reasonable chance of hitting scum, and even viewed as a policy lynch I think it's a good idea.

That said I don't want it to happen
yet
we need to maximise information out of the day at least, which is why everyone should weigh in and other avenues should be explored.
At the very least I'd like to have a few good town reads so day 2 is easier.

Thus far I'd say scum are in {adlim, Clemency, Archwing, fenraiser}.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:18 am

Post by adilm29h »

In post 128, Virtuoso wrote:@ adilm29h - have you played on other forums? If so can you provide some games that you played?
read my previous game and you will find the answer to that.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:03 am

Post by Fenraiser »

Hello, my name is Fenraiser.

I hail from TOS forums.

I played one Standard Open game before but replaced out due to irl issues( and the shift in meta was overwhelming as TOS has more memes and shitposts).

My schedule that I have now allows me to put enough time for Forum Mafia, given if there aren't 20 new pages every 8 hours (which I have had experienced before).

I shall get to reading.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:16 am

Post by Rubicon »

In post 129, FancyPants wrote:Thus far I'd say scum are in {adlim, Clemency, Archwing, fenraiser}.
How come?
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:16 am

Post by Rubicon »

In post 131, Fenraiser wrote:Hello, my name is Fenraiser.

I hail from TOS forums.

I played one Standard Open game before but replaced out due to irl issues( and the shift in meta was overwhelming as TOS has more memes and shitposts).

My schedule that I have now allows me to put enough time for Forum Mafia, given if there aren't 20 new pages every 8 hours (which I have had experienced before).

I shall get to reading.
Hey, welcome to ms. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the game so far.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:33 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 132, Rubicon wrote:
In post 129, FancyPants wrote:Thus far I'd say scum are in {adlim, Clemency, Archwing, fenraiser}.
How come?
Process of elimination from preliminary town reads.
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:45 am

Post by Rubicon »

Which means you townread SIV, Maestro, Virtuoso and me. Some of those are surprising to me. What makes you think they're town, even as preliminary reads?
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:52 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 135, Rubicon wrote:Which means you townread SIV, Maestro, Virtuoso and me. Some of those are surprising to me. What makes you think they're town, even as preliminary reads?
Tone and/or intent mostly, I don't find discussing town reads to be particularly useful.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:05 am

Post by Rubicon »

Could you give examples?
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:20 am

Post by FancyPants »

In post 137, Rubicon wrote:Could you give examples?
One thing I picked up from reading - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... em_Lynched is good and bad focus, while my style is not like ABR and will never be, I do really support the idea of good focus. There are two scum in this game and I'd rather focus on them, for me that means more content from the people I listed.

Arguing about town reads is generally bad content as far as I'm concerned, but I don't want to send you off with a flee in your ear so:
- I like SIV's attitude page one, it shows uncertainty, uncertainty reads town to me.
- Virtuoso's throught process for post is the kind of paranoid thinking I've seen before from town.
- I like how antagonistic Maestro is, generally I find scum are less likely to pick fights rather than lay low.
- From you general scum hunting, and a desire to game solve.

Now I know all of these things are fakeable, but it's a solid start. I feel I'm right about these, scum are in that subset I mentioned, quite keen to see the results at the end of the game.

@Fennraiser - I too, eagerly await your thoughts.
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:29 am

Post by Rubicon »

Thank you. I asked because, while I can understand that approach to mafia, I don't think it's compatible with explaining your scumreads as "process of elimination." Because then you would have managed to avoid explaining both your townreads and your scumreads.

In your case, you were able to explain when I pressed, so I don't hold it against you.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:16 pm

Post by Fenraiser »

Reactions from Adilm29h Mafia Power Claim:

adilm29h
: First post-claimed mafia power role. Says he claimed roleblocker to generate discussion and make things more interesting. Don't like his logic of "who ever is 100% positive i am scum i have a scum lean on them" as his logic hinges on he himself being town (as he claims). I do not like his arguments on Clemency at all. Top Policy/Scum lynch for the day.

Clemency:

Believes Adilm is most likely town. Votes him. Expresses intent to keep the vote on andilm. Feels strongly to lynch Adilm.

Fenraiser (replaced Jamiet99uk)
: No posts from my slot :(

Archwing
:
Had a pretty indifferent reaction to Adilm's claim. Maintains that indifference to this post.
In post 13, Archwing wrote:Lmao not sure if trolling? Or..

VOTE: adilm29h

SIV36
:
Will be amazed if this one is scum. Takes charge of town, and while not alignment indicative, it seems to be a good sign. Kinda neutral to adilm, but willing to policy lynch to clear it up.

Maestro (SE)
:
Interestingly, comments directly on the wagon first rather than Adilm.
In post 52, Maestro wrote:
In post 51, SIV36 wrote:^Not to mention that the player with the wagon pretty well [paraphrased] "Hi guys, I'm a mafia role-blocker, and I just have a quick question about it" It wouldn't be much of a stretch that all the people on the wagon are suspicious towns.
This is almost certainly not what happened.

They probably misunderstood something or meant to post it elsewhere, I'm not sure, but thinking they were scumclaiming in their first post isn't "suspicious Towns" ( btw :giggle: ), it's just wishful thinking, and at best silly. Virtuoso at least should be able to think a little more critically than this; I don't place much trust in the rest of you, but V is an IC.
A lot of focus on the wagon rather than Andilm. This is what stood out most to me. Don't know exactly what to think of it yet, but I can see it more easily from a mafia POV. Although, if Maestro genuinely belives Andilm is town, this seems understandable.

In addition, defends andilm very strongly. Uses lack of self-preservation as part of a defense. But, he put a logical progression steps that seem to make sense. His position seems to be that since he can't see scum doing what andilm is doing logically, he cannot believe that andilm is most likely scum.

In addition, seems content to vote Virtuoso over Andilm.

FancyPants (SE)
:
Believe this is the first person to pull up meta against adilm. Says that andilm is prone to making gambits. Not against lynching andilm.

Rubicon (SE)
:
From his initial andim reaction, he totally believed that andim was scum at the time.
In post 16, Rubicon wrote:VOTE: virtuoso

Good morning. With one scum outed, the next step is to find their partner. I didn't really like the way virtuoso's reacted just now. It's hard to put into words, it just didn't feel completely genuine.
Says later that the andilm claim is null, but comments that andilm's silence is not so good. This is strange, although I can't ping it as town or scum atm.
In post 26, Rubicon wrote:I think you are either too eager to see him lynched immediately, because he is town and you are mafia,
or
you are his partner and know he messed up so badly that you think you have to vote him for appearances.
Aimed towards Virtuoso. Good insight, but null as it isn't definite.

Virtuoso (IC)
:
In post 12, Virtuoso wrote:
In post 11, adilm29h wrote:hey guys as roleblocker, why did the game start b4 i could do an action?
Da fuq did you really just scum claim like that?

VOTE: adilm29h
Don't really get why people think the reaction is not genuine. I could see mafia/town saying this.

Very adamant in pushing Andilm to be lynched.



Comments:

Adilm's claim as well as his reasons are faulty. Likely scum.

Virtuoso seems pretty good, as does Fancy (would also like to see more posts) and SIV and Clemency.

Maestro and Rubicon are kind of iffy atm b/c [look at the entries on them in my post], Maestro more so. Rubi is iffy, but could see Rubi as town. Although, Maestro's logic is good, but the order of his concern seems out of place.

Arch is null, but might actually turn up as scum.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:29 pm

Post by FancyPants »

@Fenraiser/Archwing,
If you were forced to lynch someone this second, and for whatever reason it couldn't be adlim who would it be? Justify?
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:46 am

Post by Virtuoso »

I'm liking Fenraiser'a enterance and also like FancyPants content so far. More coming after the holiday.

I'm heading off for Rosh Hashana. I'll see you all Saturday night. May we be inscribed for a good year. L'Shana Tova
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:00 am

Post by Huntress »

Maestro has been prodded.
.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:45 am

Post by Fenraiser »

In post 141, FancyPants wrote:@Fenraiser/Archwing,
If you were forced to lynch someone this second, and for whatever reason it couldn't be adlim who would it be? Justify?
I don't have a confident secondary lynch target atm, but if I was forced to right at this very moment, I'd choose Maestro (although I'm doubting my read on him after looking through the ISO of Rubi, Maestro [to give an answer to your question fancypants] and Virtuoso).

Mainly, when looking back at Maestro's responses, I noticed the apparently intense emotional response to adilm's claim. It could only come from:
1)Maestro-Townie getting frustrated at someone (adilm) he thinks is innocent and made a seriously bad error (regardless of actual alignment of adilm).
or
2)Maestro-Mafia trying to defend his Mafia brother adilm desparately that made a mistake, trying to pass it off as newb townie mistake.
or
3)Maestro-Mafia feigning emotionally (very well) a defense of someone (adilm) he knows as town to gain towncred and give himself points for Townie POV points.

The third option I haven't seen in action at all, but it'd depend on player meta and/or experience level.
I believe 1) and 2) are more likely to occur than the 3rd.

So, I also have some additional questions (for Rubi):
Spoiler:
In post 55, Rubicon wrote:
In post 52, Maestro wrote:Virtuoso at least should be able to think a little more critically than this; I don't place much trust in the rest of you, but V is an IC.
Could see someone believing it at first, but their posts since then have me pretty convinced they're scum.
I think you are referring to Virtuoso, but I'd like clarification for that.
In post 16, Rubicon wrote:VOTE: virtuoso

Good morning. With one scum outed, the next step is to find their partner. I didn't really like the way virtuoso's reacted just now. It's hard to put into words, it just didn't feel completely genuine.
In addition, I'd like elaboration on this as I didn't really get what you meant about Virtuoso.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:21 am

Post by Fenraiser »

@Maestro

What would you do if adilm actually flips town? How would that change your reads and who would you suspect?
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:33 am

Post by Maestro »

Uh, not much if at all? I would vote-park on Virtuoso if he flips Town, because I'd be even more interested in how an IC hand-waived obviousNewb behavior as a Scum (mis)play. You need to understand, I'm running on the assumption that adilm is Town, because I think he's Town. I have never voted him. That question would be better directed at somebody who thinks he's Scum.
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:33 am

Post by Maestro »

A longer answer to that and anything else I care about later when I'm off work and not phone-bound.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:43 am

Post by Fenraiser »

In post 146, Maestro wrote:Uh, not much if at all? I would vote-park on Virtuoso if he flips Town, because I'd be even more interested in how an IC hand-waived obviousNewb behavior as a Scum (mis)play. You need to understand, I'm running on the assumption that adilm is Town, because I think he's Town. I have never voted him. That question would be better directed at somebody who thinks he's Scum.
Oops. Wrong question.
Or wrong person?


"What if he actually turns up as
mafia
?" is what I meant to ask you Maestro.

I also extend this question to everyone else as well.
It'd be wise to answer this so as to focus our efforts more and plan stuff out.


"If the flip on andilm goes against what you expected, how will your reads change and who would you suspect next?"
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:44 am

Post by Virtuoso »

In post 148, Fenraiser wrote:"If the flip on andilm goes against what you expected, how will your reads change and who would you suspect next?"
I think this is an excellent question to ask. I strongly expect andilm to flip scum. If he were to flip town then I would start focusing on the people who are hard defending him (i.e. maestro)
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