17 Kilos of Cocaine - [GAME OVER]

[Spiffeh]

I don't know if that's bad-town or bad-scum

[Spiffeh]

It's too late for this to be a townie entrance

He had time for 6 whining I can't post posts but no time for obvreads despite reading

This is also a bad post

[Bins]

after reading ISOs i have not become more conclusive. ginngie is definitely my least certian read. while i still hate their reason for voting me it still may be town reasoning.

xyzzy and eli both have super bare ISOs. i dislike elli a little more just based on how i can see their posts coming from scum and they still give me the heebie jeebies from earlier in the day.

dans iso is less bare but he still sat on me since RVS and had shit reasoning so meh. not a lot to townread in this iso

so yeh still not descided but any of these three are better than wicked imo

i also like his reason. reminds me of mine lol and i how i tend to react as town

[Bins]

sry to conclude not really in the mood to move my vote

[Spiffeh]

Ok all that being said I'm not thrilled with Wick's reads post

Stuff like this

Firebringer - He's been the most active player which is usually a good sign.

If he's town, then I hope he recovers in time to contribute something before day's end.

just bothers me on a gut level.

And in general I find overly polished (as in overly articulated and ridiculously grammatically correct) reads like this come from scum over town. Scum, especially in the position of Wick having replaced in and making their first real post, are more concerned with "presenting" posts like these than town is.

This is like completely gut based but yeah

[Spiffeh]

And yes I realize it might be a play style thing but it still gives me the heebie jeebies OK GOD

[Spiffeh]

More specifically, it's a little weird how little stock he puts in his townreads town and scum reads. Of course, someone being town doesn't mean they're right, but usually in practice it's at least kind of correlated that you think someone is town based on their reads. But he's got bulbas scum read in town, bulbas town reads in neutral, Bins top scum read in neutral (she's on Elli now but was really vs Ginngie at time of posting)...I guess Spiffeh's reads are stale and despes reads never existed so really it's mostly just Bulba that caught my eye here.

I don't think this matters at all

[Desperado]

alternatively, be specific about what fringey and irrelevant shit i commented on and what that means w/r/t my alignment

I feel like you're picking fights that come out of left field and ultimately don't translate into anything productive

You took issue with chesskid calling Whemestar obvtown and perpetuated the point with

now i'm kind of confused

is he obvtown or is he not scum?

when it should be abundantly clear what he means. It looks like you're trying to make him look bad instead actually pursuing something that caught your attention.

And then you call Ginngie out for not explaining her vote, which is fair I guess?? But it's not something you took very far and looks as if you're confronting someone to look like you're doing something

Later on, your engagement with hito seems reactionary to him calling you out about being useless, and it seems like you're trying to catch him out on saying something contradictory rather than explain if there's scum motivation behind your problems with his Kagami read. Why does his inability to articulate what looks like a gut read make him more likely to be scum (I'm assuming that's why you're going so hard after it)? There are other people that are putting a ton of stock into someone being town that they haven't adequately explained (chesskid w/ Ellibereth, for example), so why do you specifically have a problem with hito doing it?

ya i think you're just missing the point entirely

re: whemestar, there's a pretty clear distinction between being obvtown and not being scum? chesskid gave both answers and i asked him to clarify.

re: ginn, how far should i have taken it? i questioned ginn, i let the questions sit, and then she...explained her bins vote. sounds like i took it exactly as far as i need to take it?

re: hito, it didn't appear to me that he was unable to articulate the reasoning but unwilling to do so, which is a pretty clear distinction as well and something i would expect anyone to take issue with.

everything you've listed here is me scumhunting. i don't have to think someone is already scum to question a read of theirs, and the final line there just isn't how human interaction works...it's not that i specifically have a problem with hito doing anything, that's just who i was talking about at that time. there's no reason to assume i was singling hito out when the simple fact is i'm but one man, and in fact had already questioned chess on that elli read before you wrote this post.

[Spiffeh]

The meta provided in Wick's 904 actually works against him imo

In the games he cited his catchup reads are a lot less wordy and seem much less concerned with attaching reasoning to EVERY SINGLE READ, whereas in the catchup he posted here he provides over justification for almost all of his null reads which just reads as trying to meet the expectations of people waiting for his catch up

[Spiffeh]

I also agree with Kagami's point about Wick being overly eager to provide meta to explain away people's problems with his catchup

[Spiffeh]

the only people you attack are people that vote you

Has playing with me taught you nothing?

[hitogoroshi]

This is really frustrating. People want to lynch me so bad based on one post. I've literally shown that that post is just my nature. You guys know how meta works, right? If I have been shown doing something as town in a previous game then that means it's not a scum tell now. Does it not bother anybody that so many people think I am scum but nobody is even interested in questioning me? One post was enough to decide you all just want to get rid of me?

If I had known that you guys were expecting a masterpiece for my catchup, then I could have taken the time to do some rereading but I wouldn't have contributed before day's end.

This post is heavily implying everyone pushing Wicked is town. You don't get frustrated by scum pushing a wagon on you, because they are just doing their job. But Wicked doesn't seem to be even considering the possibility he's being run up by scum. Smells a whole awful lot like "caught for the 'wrong' reasons".

Also this sort of woe is me tone seems to conflict with the power softclaim here:

Okay. Fwiw, I really don't want to have to claim today. But I probably will have to very soon if things don't improve.

I guess technically speaking this is another "meta" thing, but I seriously can't imagine anyone who posts something like 991 if they're sitting on a pocket ace.

Pretty sure I have some quotes to answer but a bit limited on time so wanted to get this out first.

[Spiffeh]

All caught up

VOTE: Wickedestjr

I would switch back to Elli if needed for a deadline lynch but I am firm in my belief that Wick is more likely to flip scum. Ellibereth has had some awful posts but the fact that that's basically his MO makes his alignment more of a crapshoot.

Right now I have at least vague town feels about Cephrir, Whemestar, Firebringer, Ginngie, Bins, Bulbazak, and grapes

I have conflicting views on chesskid, ActionDan, and hito and I don't feel comfortable committing one way or the other about them

Miscellaneous comments about people I haven't talked about yet:
Ginngie sticking to her guns and willingness to get into arguments about the things she's passionate about seems business as usual for town!Ginngie
Like Elli, xyzzy's posts have been pretty bad overall but I know in Gay Mafia 3 I felt that way and she flipped town so don't feel she's done anything indicative
I debated putting Kagami in the "vague town feels" category because I agreed with the stuff she said about Wick but I don't really feel any type of way about her play otherwise which sketches me out

I feel like I'm forgetting someone but oh well

[Spiffeh]

@Desperado

check your scumdar kiddo mine just got upgraded today its the scumfucker 5000 now

top o the line

now i'm kind of confused

is he obvtown or is he not scum?

Where did chesskid even say "not scum" in reference to Whemestar? This is what you're responding to and I don't see how you could interpret this as

Also depending on the context of calling Wheme "not scum", I don't think that "obvtown" and "not scum" is contradictory or all that much of a distinction to pay any attention to it.

[Spiffeh]

re: ginn, how far should i have taken it? i questioned ginn, i let the questions sit, and then she...explained her bins vote. sounds like i took it exactly as far as i need to take it?

I guess?

I think it just fits the narrative of "innocuous thing to take issue with that is barely even worth mentioning in the face of everything else that is happening", just like your earlier qualm with chesskid

[Bulbazak]

I also agree with Kagami's point about Wick being overly eager to provide meta to explain away people's problems with his catchup

That's just how Wicked operates. It's not alignment indicative.

@Hito: You can both be frustrated with your wagon and still be a strong PR. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And frustration doesn't necessarily have to do with the entire wagon. If there are a few townreads on there herpaderping and pushing the lynch, that can be incredibly frustrating too.

[Spiffeh]

That's just how Wicked operates. It's not alignment indicative.

An overeagerness to self meta in defense of his actions is how he operates?

Do you have some examples?

I've already acknowledged that the big reads list for catch up goes along with his meta in general, but I found differences between the ones he cited from previous town games and the catch up he posted here that bother me. What do you think about them?

[Wickedestjr]

The meta provided in Wick's 904 actually works against him imo

In the games he cited his catchup reads are a lot less wordy and seem much less concerned with attaching reasoning to EVERY SINGLE READ, whereas in the catchup he posted here he provides over justification for almost all of his null reads which just reads as trying to meet the expectations of people waiting for his catch up

Different circumstances. It was my first post in this game, so I hadn't commented on anything yet - I just had a lot more thoughts to type up. Note that I didn't feel obligated to comment on

everyone

. I just remembered thoughts I had had about most people. In the Saga game, my reads list came on page 60ish. By that point, I had had opportunities to comment on events already plus I was burnt out because that game was moving at an insane speed. It was taking all my energy just to stay caught up; I replaced out of that game.

I also agree with Kagami's point about Wick being overly eager to provide meta to explain away people's problems with his catchup

Eh don't remember Kagami saying that but w/ever. Why is that a bad thing?

[Wickedestjr]

This post is heavily implying everyone pushing Wicked is town. You don't get frustrated by scum pushing a wagon on you, because they are just doing their job. But Wicked doesn't seem to be even considering the possibility he's being run up by scum.

My post was directed at town, because I know that there are town on my bandwagon. Scum don't have any motivation to un-vote me, so why would I appeal to them?

Smells a whole awful lot like "caught for the 'wrong' reasons".

This is something people say when they realize their point is wrong but want to justify keeping their vote. Don't like this. You're town confbiasing or scum.

I guess technically speaking this is another "meta" thing, but I seriously can't imagine anyone who posts something like 991 if they're sitting on a pocket ace.

Hint: Risk of getting lynched isn't the only reason why people get frustrated about votes. Hypothetically, even someone with a pocket ace doesn't like poorly justified bandwagons.

[Desperado]

@ spiffeh

chess calls wheme obvtown

i call bullshit

chess clarifies that wheme isn't protown, just obvtown

i continue to call bullshit

chess tells me to "check my scumdar"

^at this point i feel like he's changing the conversation from why is he townreading wheme to why am i scumreading him even tho i never stated a scumread there. i interpreted him telling me to check my scumdar as him being unclear about the strength of his townread on wheme. he's yet to attempt to explain it as well but that appears to be par for the course this game so??

[Desperado]

I think it just fits the narrative of "innocuous thing to take issue with that is barely even worth mentioning in the face of everything else that is happening", just like your earlier qualm with chesskid

hmmm

maybe i'm the first person to tell you this but...you aren't the arbiter of what is or isn't important or worth discussing

what specifically are you referring to when you say "everything else that is happening?"

[Bulbazak]

That's just how Wicked operates. It's not alignment indicative.

An overeagerness to self meta in defense of his actions is how he operates?

Do you have some examples?

I believe the self-meta thing was what made me scumread him in Organic. I was completely wrong there.

I've already acknowledged that the big reads list for catch up goes along with his meta in general, but I found differences between the ones he cited from previous town games and the catch up he posted here that bother me. What do you think about them?

He's barely posted anything. My thought is to give him time and see how his reads evolve.

[hitogoroshi]

even if he had replied the second way without an example attached, that would be sufficient for a scum read?

The funny thing is based on your thought process here Grapes would call you town for it. Because you asked a question with a clear "town answer"/"scum answer" in mind.

Oh grapes.

You don't miss reck or xyzzy? It feels weirdly artificial to single out one lurker in particular like this. And this in conjunction with how you're interacting with the wickedestjr wagon is giving me some real bad feelings.

ginn/ceph interactions give me better vibes on both of them

@ hito fair enough. you said elli is off the table today but i wasn't really following why. because chesskid said so???

yup

honoring the sacred trust of the bloc is important to get a good lynch on a day with so many players, so many lurkers, and such wide-spread wagons

[Desperado]

honoring the sacred trust of the bloc is important to get a good lynch on a day with so many players, so many lurkers, and such wide-spread wagons

right

but your bloc isn't producing any results and in fact, i would argue that the bloc is what's responsible for the wide spread wagons...there's way too much implicit trust being given too freely and your bloc is dividing, not uniting

so maybe it's time to try something new?

[chesskid3]

two wagons 2 softclaimed PRs is definitely results.