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[Mulch]

I suppose yeah

[Toranaga]

ok good talk. be back in a bit

[Toranaga]

really having a pretty hard time with this game now.

I'm only lock clearing WM and tacos to a certain extent. I think chip is likely a villager. I don't think skitter would try influencing against a misère lynch yesterday wolfing with her. I also agree with scum skitter that misère's posts weren't really all that bad. I think BBT's vote on skitter on d1 that led to her being L-2 gives him town points.

Thor is reasonable and pushed skitter since she L-1'ed Havo, but he has also pushed and voted Maria and was never really strong about skitter anyway. he wasn't pushing for these things.

There are many pieces of this game that don't fit with mulch being scum wrt possible partners. I don't think either HEM or Chip would side so heavily in his endeavours of outing Havo as scum buddies. I think scum tends to distance themselves a bit more than that. Also, when HEM voted Havo, and Mulch followed, I just don't read that kind of thing as two scum.

it brings me to thor everytime. there are certain interactions, very thin stuff, that makes sense with them being scum together. Thor didn't start the day scum reading Mulch, which could totally be just because he is a better player than I am and can look past how Mulch played and what he pushed into an underlying villageryness that's too strong for him to be a wolf. but what if mulch is scum? there's one funny post that I keep in my head:

I really like Skitter's recent posts. They came into the game and started scumreading people that hadn't voted them yet or were not voting them, which would mean that if they are scum they are taking the risk of them voting them for a bullshit read. It was daring and showed a lack of caring about how they are perceived. I think the fact they had the awareness to point out Tort scumreading Misere after previously calling them town showed they were really trying to analyze the gamestate (and I still need an explanation for that). Their aggresive and confident and not overly defesive to anyone except Thor which I can understand cause they're tunneling them conf-bias style based on one post. I could follow their reasoning on all of their points although not particularly in depth, and especially liked how they were scumreading the putting Havo into a team after the unvote (something I completely missed). I also like their tone.

I don't want to lynch Skitter today. I think there is a decent chance that wolves are jumping on town!thor confbiasing them, specifically MariaR who really bothered me by just making a post about catching up but still is just floating by letting their non-extremely serious vote on Skitter stand. I've found that people who leave votes on for extended periods of time have a higher chance of being wolf in general.

that easy townread on thor. would scum say that about town? and how convenient that everyone who is a 'wolf' in this scenario would actually be town, while thor gets a pass for pushing skitter. how fitting.

[Mulch]

If I’m scum with skitter I never make that post.
100%

[Toranaga]

if Mulch flips scum, I suggest lynching thor next. if Mulch flips town, I'd lynch HEM next. WM and tacos are probably town and IDK much about anyone else.

[Mulch]

Who has ever seen a scum fruit vendor...

[Toranaga]

Who has ever seen a scum fruit vendor...

I looked into it, and there have been quite a few. think there's an alisae game recently with a scum loud fruit vendor who was redchecked and lynched d2. looking through posts in many threads no one assumes fruit vendor is a town role, so it's a little confusing why you would.

[Toranaga]

I could probably be convinced of voting HEM fwiw

[Mulch]

Who has ever seen a scum fruit vendor...

I looked into it, and there have been quite a few. think there's an alisae game recently with a scum loud fruit vendor who was redchecked and lynched d2. looking through posts in many threads no one assumes fruit vendor is a town role, so it's a little confusing why you would.

Because it doesn’t make sense as a scum role...

[Mulch]

I could probably be convinced of voting HEM fwiw

What about havingfitz

[Chip Butty]

Who has ever seen a scum fruit vendor...

Even if fruit vendor is negative utility for scum as you say, it could have been included for balancing purposes. That's why nu roles are a thing. I think you must know that.

On the basis of role alone you are neutral. It's going to come down to vca associations tone etc.

[Toranaga]

it's definitely a meta-perspective role to have as scum, and probably doesn't work much for balancing because no one is supposed to town read a fruit vendor claim anymore.

but think of this setup with me mulch: 13 players, 3 scum, and 5 town with claims? I don't mean to solve that you have to be scum for balancing, but half the town having a claimable role while no scum has any of that seems objectively unbalanced. I understand the claims themselves are nothing clearing, but yours is the only one who can never be confirmed as serving any town purpose in the game. even WM could have been mechanically cleared by being checked (!).

[Toranaga]

I could probably be convinced of voting HEM fwiw

What about havingfitz

I wanna lynch someone with good scum equity with you, and I think HEM has that + following a pretty heavy scum agenda all game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay please talk about what will happen if I'm lynched and I flip town—because I will. Also, let's make this last until deadline because I want Toranaga to stay with us as long as he can.

I can't be active right now. I'll be active maybe Thursday.

[Toranaga]

Okay please talk about what will happen if I'm lynched and I flip town—because I will. Also, let's make this last until deadline because I want Toranaga to stay with us as long as he can.

I can't be active right now. I'll be active maybe Thursday.

towny post... I think town would eventually lynch mulch... if you're town and mulch is scum, I think thor is scum. but who knows.

HEM, did you think skitter was at L-1 or were you reaction testing?

[Toranaga]

it's definitely a meta-perspective role to have as scum, and probably doesn't work much for balancing because no one is supposed to town read a fruit vendor claim anymore.

but think of this setup with me mulch: 13 players, 3 scum, and 5 town with claims? I don't mean to solve that you have to be scum for balancing, but half the town having a claimable role while no scum has any of that seems objectively unbalanced. I understand the claims themselves are nothing clearing, but yours is the only one who can never be confirmed as serving any town purpose in the game. even WM could have been mechanically cleared by being checked (!).

I mean in a way... the game is a little unbalanced against mafia because loyal cop, tracker and gunsmith are provable roles, miller is extremely awkward to fake as scum and fruit vendor is literally -whatever-. so if we do read into it, and figure one of those roles has to be a scum role for balancing, the game isn't really all that balanced now is it. IDK, maybe it was how it was played out and I'm done speculating on the mechanics just a thought I had.

[humaneatingmonkey]

TBH, I don't remember consciously putting anyone at L-1 because I'm not someone who will do that unless I really want a lynch to happen. What happened was I just desperately want to both of you shut up about voting each other so I wanted to go ahead and vote skitter so the attention will go there but then it was at L-1 so I removed my vote.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't think us lynching Mulch is the best way to go. I'm fairly confident about Mulch's towniness here because fruit vendor isn't a scum role. Mulch was making sense about how it's a useless role for scum—a negative even. If anyone's gonna be lynched after me, I'll say Thor, Misere, and BBT replacements. Maybe Chip Butty.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sergtacos is town because the way he tries to solve this game sounds genuine to me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, the way Skitter was associating himself with me, I can see how the scum would create a narrative about how I'm likely to be scum with him. I'm watching out for people who would push that narrative aggressively.

[Mulch]

Who has ever seen a scum fruit vendor...

Even if fruit vendor is negative utility for scum as you say, it could have been included for balancing purposes. That's why nu roles are a thing. I think you must know that.

On the basis of role alone you are neutral. It's going to come down to vca associations tone etc.

If I were a scum fruit vendor and it was a negative role I woulden't have used it...

[Mulch]

Towns in MS have way too much power Tor. You will learn this

[Toranaga]

Towns in MS have way too much power Tor. You will learn this

you're probably right and I'm prepared to be hard pocketed by you but you gotta push scum this time

[Toranaga]

LOUD scum fruit vendor though. it's a thing.

[Toranaga]

I probably can't accurately read HEM.