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[Sergtacos]

The provlem with this theory is that i don't flip red. You have a different way at approaching the game than me. It's not my fault you think that's scummy. What I did was the right play, it just didn't work.

if you flip green, then I think HEM > misère are good lynches to go with next.

If we lynch scum today, I become confirmed town tomorrow

Who's scum?

[Toranaga]

The provlem with this theory is that i don't flip red. You have a different way at approaching the game than me. It's not my fault you think that's scummy. What I did was the right play, it just didn't work.

if you flip green, then I think HEM > misère are good lynches to go with next.

If we lynch scum today, I become confirmed town tomorrow

unfortunately we don't even know this because the mod didn't answer my night actions question. and the problem is, if you're scum then hitting your scumbuddy this gameday is gonna be extremely hard, especially if it's someone you're pushing. I don't think it gives town anything to e.g. mislynch sergtacos here who is never wolfing with you after how d1 went down.

[Thor665]

@Thor, you don't really have a strong case on me, i mean your reasoning of me being scum is shitty that it makes me think you're scum. There's a case on Mulch and it's strong so I would advise you to push for Mulch if you're town.

What's Poo-poo about my reasoning exactly?

I seriously don't see any of your reasoning actually.

Then where do you get off calling it poo-poo?
Wouldn't you just say it doesn't exist?

As for my reasoning - it was VCA, I showed it already.

The provlem with this theory is that i don't flip red. You have a different way at approaching the game than me. It's not my fault you think that's scummy. What I did was the right play, it just didn't work.

if you flip green, then I think HEM > misère are good lynches to go with next.

If we lynch scum today, I become confirmed town tomorrow

Because roles you can use in addition to a NK are unheard of or unlikely?

@Mulch - you think that's frustrating? Try being unbelieveably accurate in all your reads and still have people claiming you're highly likely scum.
It's the game.

[Sergtacos]

ok I've seen people use wolfing too many times, what does wolfing mean in here?

[Thor665]

I don't think it gives town anything to e.g. mislynch sergtacos here

who is never wolfing with you after how d1 went down.

Why do you think this?
Their combined Havo push?

[Mulch]

Honestly at this point I'm really fucking annoyed with this game and are tempted to just self vote if u promise to lynch misere tmrw. I've been trying not to do it but this game sucks

[Toranaga]

thor, I'm not saying you're highly likely scum. really, if Mulch flips town here you're probably lock clear? and then I'm an idiot clearing the wrong people and pushing the game in a bad direction. but I cannot understand anyone townreading mulch, and I think you've been interacting with Mulch in ways that make sense wolfing together. And tone wise, I do not think you're townie. I know you laughed at tone reading before, and I don't necessarily tone read you scum (although I can probably pull up some interesting posts), but a lot of your posts don't have the townie vibe HEM, sergtacos or WM have.

[Toranaga]

I don't think it gives town anything to e.g. mislynch sergtacos here

who is never wolfing with you after how d1 went down.

Why do you think this?
Their combined Havo push?

tacos is absolutely clear if mulch is scum

tacos: scum, mafia and wolf are the same thing. I'm trying to keep it readable for you guys but I use the expressions 'villager', 'wolf', 'wolfy', 'wolfing', 'villagery' and not townie and scummy or whatever.

thor I'll put up relevant posts that show they're unlikely paired as scum now.

[Toranaga]

VOTE: havo

Hardclaim or I will tunnel you for the rest of the day

Pinging me scum.

So you're completely fine with outing me? No matter what role I could be?

No, once you claim a very important power role and are not cced, most likely I will unvote

Because Mulch doesn't want to look bad for actually lynching an important role.

Lean scum- Monkey
Strong scum- Mulch and Chip

longer deadlines benefit scum.


And more importantly, I feel like getting Havo to L-1 will elicit a claim from him.

Funny how you want a hard claim from him and not from everyone else? we might as well say fuck it and announce all of our roles.

So far, Whymafia= Miller

Anyone else want to hardclaim?

See how stupid this is? Why are you so demanding for Havo's full claim when there's still 2 weeks ahead of us for D1! Like I would expect a hard claim in D3 and/or D4, maybe D2 depending on the situation but wth.

VOTE: Mulch

I don't think lynching Havo right now is terrible at all



Also, it's true. The longer the deadlines go on the more town tend to get frustrated.

It's also why shorter deadline sites like Mafia Universe have better functioning towns.

IDK if thats true or not but I think longer deadlines benefit town? We have more posts and time to analyze and we get a better conclusion out of it. You sound like you want to rush this lynch, which is a tactic a scum would do. Found scum!

"longer deadlines benefit scum."

why even write this? you know that's not necessarily true anyway and you know lynching anyone right now is terrible. why write such thing as if it was fact?

Because he's scum.

these interactions are not two scum together. also note how pure serg's tone is here.

[Sergtacos]

@Thor, you don't really have a strong case on me, i mean your reasoning of me being scum is shitty that it makes me think you're scum. There's a case on Mulch and it's strong so I would advise you to push for Mulch if you're town.

What's Poo-poo about my reasoning exactly?

I seriously don't see any of your reasoning actually.

Then where do you get off calling it poo-poo?
Wouldn't you just say it doesn't exist?

As for my reasoning - it was VCA, I showed it already.

The provlem with this theory is that i don't flip red. You have a different way at approaching the game than me. It's not my fault you think that's scummy. What I did was the right play, it just didn't work.

if you flip green, then I think HEM > misère are good lynches to go with next.

If we lynch scum today, I become confirmed town tomorrow

Because roles you can use in addition to a NK are unheard of or unlikely?

@Mulch - you think that's frustrating? Try being unbelieveably accurate in all your reads and still have people claiming you're highly likely scum.
It's the game.

Wrong. You voted me because I decided to vote for skitter and i did that by requoting your post. You think i'm trying to have you town lock when you said monekey and i should vote skitter then i voted skitter right after, wrong. I thought I posted why skitter was my strongest scum read but guess I greened out then felt like it was old to do so, which therefore i decided not to post why because she was getting lynched anyway.

Anyway, my point, wrong about why it doesn't exist. Your reasons doesn't exist but your argument (vote) still stands. idk what VCA means. In order to have a sound argument, you need to have valid points. You can't make a sound argument with no reasoning, no points, which therefore makes your argument unsound.

[Sergtacos]

Thanks tor

[Thor665]

Honestly at this point I'm really fucking annoyed with this game and are tempted to just self vote if u promise to lynch misere tmrw. I've been trying not to do it but this game sucks

If you feel like that, replace out, and don't compound annoyance with bad play by self voting.
Unless you're scum - then self vote.

thor, I'm not saying you're highly likely scum. really, if Mulch flips town here you're probably lock clear? and then I'm an idiot clearing the wrong people and pushing the game in a bad direction. but I cannot understand anyone townreading mulch, and I think you've been interacting with Mulch in ways that make sense wolfing together. And tone wise, I do not think you're townie. I know you laughed at tone reading before, and I don't necessarily tone read you scum (although I can probably pull up some interesting posts), but a lot of your posts don't have the townie vibe HEM, sergtacos or WM have.

Considering the odds of one of them being scum and me knowing my role, I will continue to mock tone reading.
We can talk about it post game when you have a better accuracy read of your takes here

Your Serg stuff makes me want to lynch Serg more than Mulch - allow me to ask this question, how likely do you think town would want to quadruple down on getting a town to reveal his role, especially since your theory scum group apparently has me as a roleblocker (or was that Serg? I forget - it's an even sillier idea if scum have a RBer though)

Also, considering Mulch's derpy little 'hope I wasn't roleblocked' commentary on Day 2, feels like if he's scum there isn't a RBer, no?

Wrong. You voted me because I decided to vote for skitter and i did that by requoting your post. You think i'm trying to have you town lock when you said monekey and i should vote skitter then i voted skitter right after, wrong. I thought I posted why skitter was my strongest scum read but guess I greened out then felt like it was old to do so, which therefore i decided not to post why because she was getting lynched anyway.

I didn't like that and found it scummy, you are correct.

Anyway, my point, wrong about why it doesn't exist. Your reasons doesn't exist but your argument (vote) still stands. idk what VCA means. In order to have a sound argument, you need to have valid points. You can't make a sound argument with no reasoning, no points, which therefore makes your argument unsound.

If you don't know what VCA means how do you know it lacks reasoning?
And I'll admit we might have been talking at cross purposes if you think argument = vote.
My valid points are my VCA - which is Vote Count Analysis - it's the same method that I used on Skitter. I'll agree that it doesn't always work, but it seems to work more often than random chance.

[Toranaga]

thor, I spoke about a roleblocker once. and considering how pro-town the setups are, I'm not even considering the RBer right now. it's a non-factor in who gets lynched this gameday imo. and I don't think mulch's comment means anything wrt scum actually having a roleblocker. feels pretty WIFOM-y to read into anything like that.

on mulch quadruple down on Havo, IDK why I'd townread that. it's bold and aggressive for scum to play like that, sure. but he wasn't towny doing so, he just felt really insincere and still does trying to defend his position.

[Thor665]

There were two people attacking Havo the same way - at least one has to be town, right?
So if we accept that at least one is town - how is it a leap to think both are?

[Thor665]

To clarify my position more fully - I feel your "oh mah gawd he's obv. scum!" case is basically a "look how terrible he did this" case.
Now, I agree that the way he handled the claim is not how I would handle it as town, and how I'd sort of like to see it done as scum - but as scum I'd never do it that way.

So, for your case to make sense either one of the following is true;

1. He is scum who knows what he did was terrible, and did it because he's scum - in which case you ought to be able to dig up a town game where he doesn't do that.
2. He is scum who does this because it's what he does as town and he thinks it's fine to do - in which case he may be scum, but your case wouldn't show it, and thus he might flip town.

Make sense as my thought?

[Thor665]

So, if it's #1 and you can show it - I'd tunnel him to death with you.
But I suspect that, if he's scum, it's #2 - in which case it's not a valid case.

[Toranaga]

There were two people attacking Havo the same way - at least one has to be town, right?
So if we accept that at least one is town - how is it a leap to think both are?

I'm not sure what you mean but serg never attacked Havo. you seem to be under the impression that he did based off that and another post you made. I'm saying serg isn't scum with mulch because of the way he attacked mulch, has nothing to do with attacking Havo or whatever. serg attacked Havo pushers (chip butty, HEM, mulch and to a lower degree, skitter).

but on that argument: I find it a bit unlikely that Mulch and HEM are scum together the way they paired up to attack Havo. but I don't think one -has- to be town. I think HEM has a much higher town equity because of his towny tone, and because he is defending Mulch. if Mulch = town and HEM = scum, pushing Mulch this gameday is more sensible than defending him.

[Thor665]

So you could see two scum both hard pushing for a town claim openly?
That seems brazen and unlikely to me.

Also, wasn't it Chip? Chip was who I thought did it.

[Thor665]

HEM may have done it too, but I remember Chip as the more vociferous.

[Toranaga]

chip, HEM and mulch were very brazen about it. and yes I did say I find it unlikely they're scum together. that's also why if mulch flips scum, you look like a better lynch than HEM.

[Toranaga]

To clarify my position more fully - I feel your "oh mah gawd he's obv. scum!" case is basically a "look how terrible he did this" case.
Now, I agree that the way he handled the claim is not how I would handle it as town, and how I'd sort of like to see it done as scum - but as scum I'd never do it that way.

So, for your case to make sense either one of the following is true;

1. He is scum who knows what he did was terrible, and did it because he's scum - in which case you ought to be able to dig up a town game where he doesn't do that.
2. He is scum who does this because it's what he does as town and he thinks it's fine to do - in which case he may be scum, but your case wouldn't show it, and thus he might flip town.

Make sense as my thought?

I don't think digging up a town game where he doesn't do that is a sensible thing to ask, because a player getting L-1 two days into a two week long gameday and then softclaiming looks like an incredibly rare scenario. he may have pushed and defended claims in both alignments for different reasons. here the reasoning is scummy and incoherent with a player with his experience.

[Thor665]

Your logic is based on what opinion o fhis experience?
Like - you think he's lying about what he believes is proper play to that degree?
I find that unlikely.
I don't do that as scum, do you?

[Toranaga]

Your logic is based on what opinion o fhis experience?
Like - you think he's lying about what he believes is proper play to that degree?
I find that unlikely.
I don't do that as scum, do you?

you're limiting a read that spuns over +400 posts of his and almost a month of playing to a discussion on whether he is lying or not about what he considers proper play. and there's probably no way to know if he is lying or telling the truth about what he considers proper play because the Havo spot was very specific and unlikely to have come up in a different game.

what did Mulch do that was towny? getting 'upset' and death tunneling people hits hard into his scum meta. look at this posts here: viewtopic.php?t=72581&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go his d1 posts to llama are a carbon copy of how he tunneled maria and Havo, and llama is town there as well. so his 'tone' isn't towny, there's nothing towny about death tunneling me, maria and havo. his 20 points against me are all forced reads that I can't see town!mulch bothering himself with. if he were to case me as town, he'd cut to the chase. he tried finding anything that's mildly incriminating, and he did it after I was set on him and skitter being scum. he reacted exactly in the way I'd assume scum!mulch would, when skitter is also scum. he also didn't seem to take into account my tracker claim (unchallenged by fykus) and even got to the point of scumreading both of us (two claimed town PRs! lol!). his d2 interactions with skitter are scummy and feel like scum on scum interactions. his vote on her was bad, even you agree. his 'emotions' are all reading as fake to me, especially when he death tunneled havo. he was very bothered for no reason!

there are perspective slips, hard defense of scum and hard push of town throughout the whole game. he dishonestly used the fruit vendor claim to try and locktown himself, because he literally has to have no idea what fruit vendor is to assume it's a town role... and if he has no idea what it is, he'd google it and find out it doesn't actually indicate alignment. there's noticing maria was MAJed, and the way he did it was scummy. and even today he appears to be absolutely howling.

now I could be wrong, you could be right... but you're reducing what a case on mulch would look like to a -matter of opinion in theory- instead of looking at the bigger picture, and that's pretty scummy regardless of Mulch's alignment.

[Toranaga]

look at mulch overreacting to a single vote on him and death tunneling the town that dared to do it in that game. where did I see that before?

[Toranaga]

in fact reading that mulch scum game: you have absolutely no basis to townread mulch here thor. his tone is extremely similar and he is bold and aggressive as scum.