Mini 1945 | 13 Reasons Why ► — Game Over

[Lil Uzi Vert]

We’re seen as less scummy in everyone’s else eyes and we are practically confirmed town, that’s why.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So if you want us to believe you’re town, vote Bins.

[Desperado]

If you think we are scum fake claiming, vote us.

The way I see it, you and Bins don’t have a leg to stand on. Both of you were on the Lily wagon. Both of you have played scummy all game.

there is nothing scummy about being on the Lilly wagon

I'll take your blanket statement to mean you don't have another actual reason to think I'm scum

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t scum read you for being on the Lily wagon however she was obvious town and it does reinforce my read.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

All you’ve doing is trying to make us look incompetent or create doubt so town will follow your lead instead of ours.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You’re looking to try shout down reasons why we scum read you when you should be trying to convince us that Hebi is somehow better than Bins today.

[keyenpeydee]

I'm heeereee
A vc incoming

[keyenpeydee]

Vote Count

Vote Count 2.06

[4] Bins

— Lil Uzi Vert, hebichan, WhyMafia, Chickadee,

[2] hebichan

— Bins, Desperado,

[1] Lil Uzi Vert

— WhemeStar,

Not Voting

— Titus, TheFuzzylogic99, penguin_alien, gerryoat,

Mod Notes

— You are now listening to Tape 2, Side A (Day Two). It will end in October 7, 2017.

With

11

alive, it take

6

to lynch. Day Two will end in

(expired on 2017-10-07 16:00:00)

.

[keyenpeydee]

Titus has been prodded again.

[keyenpeydee]

She hasn't read my other prod, so if she isn't here by tomorrow, she's going to be replaced.

[penguin_alien]

@luv can you explain what's been happening today then? why have you and whymafia been splitting your votes on bins and tfl while we all dicked around and nothing happened?

This so much, given you two spent the whole first day with your votes on different targets. If you know one another to be town, why not work together and push for a common scum read?

It has been happening because I don’t play neighborhood or neighborhood like roles in mason well. It has been happening because I defend town reads, call out shit pushes, and wait till people come around because I always believe my reads are accurate. I don’t impose my will on the game as town because I don’t like playing town so I do my best to have the game end as soon as possible.

This makes no sense. You believe your reads to be accurate, you have a fellow confirmed town, and you don't even try to persuade him to work with you?

And playing masons is completely different from playing in a neighborhood. You KNOW one another to be town, so you can take one another's arguments at complete face value, and you're a mini-voting block, just like the scum team is, but with less fear of being associated.

If you think we are scum fake claiming, vote us.

The way I see it, you and Bins don’t have a leg to stand on. Both of you were on the Lily wagon. Both of you have played scummy all game.

He asked why your reads should be seen as so much better than everyone else's. He didn't say you were scum. Why the jump?

We’re seen as less scummy in everyone’s else eyes and we are practically confirmed town, that’s why.

...the more you post the less I buy this damn claim.

I don’t scum read you for being on the Lily wagon however she was obvious town and it does reinforce my read.

By my count there were seven people on the wagon (eight if you count my willingness to hammer if we didn't get a specific claim; I can't honestly say what choice I'd've made if she'd full-claimed). Given that group has to include minimum 5 town players (or 4 since Boonskiies' hammer was basically NA-reading-I) that's at least 40% of the town that didn't think she was obvious town. And looking at your ISO, you didn't actively defend her at all. So this is complete bullshit. You said above you defend your town reads. Please, show me where you mounted any kind of actual defense of Carcalilly.

Right now I'm inclined to lynch hebichan unless someone claims an effectively similar town role to what Bins claimed.

VOTE: hebichan

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Carca

Claimed VT in role madness.

Huh?

You can be a VT in a role madness game. Does your knowledge of flavour suggest otherwise?

Lily's fine for now.

Although this:

Can anyone confirm that mason claim tho?

actually makes me start scumleaning on Carcalilly in the absence of anything else of substance in the ISO.

Why didn't you quote the entire post?

I think she was clearly frustrated about the setup speculation and theory talk going on at the time and not trying to fish.

I don't believe you would start scum reading Lily if she decided to start fake claiming or doing other anti-town things repeatedly.

No, you're just unable to detect sarcasm

Mmkay, you're more perceptive than me, clearly. But I'll wait until Carcalilly shows up to clarify for herself, thanks.

What were you waiting for? She was just going to piggyback off of my explanation as either alignment.

It really isn't. Some of y'all are just awkward.

I don't understand why you're annoyed by this.

Honestly it's quite easy. All you have do is just apply the Principle of Reciprocal Benevolence: unless previous information has clearly established the opposite, assume that the writer is sane, intelligent and well-meaning and that they assume you are sane, intelligent and well-meaning.

If the literal surface meaning of the text does not make sense from this point of view, consider the possibility it is a joke or sarcasm. Remember it does not have to be funny or clever to you for something to be a joke or sarcasm. You just have to probe whether the statement makes sense if it was intended as such and that the writer is expecting you'll be interpreting it like that.

Especially when other people do it for them...

Anyhow. Sure.

Or have common sense and partners. This isn't the Newbie queue

But yes!

My issue with these new wagons is that they feel shitty.

Why does wheme's feel that way? Why does Wheme wagon feel worse than the Bins wagon, where Bins at least has some analysis and commentary that was attempted on the game, rather than just naked votes and self meta.

You answered your own question. Naked votes and self-meta is a terrible reason to vote for someone.

The given reasons Bins has stated for her pushes make them awful. The perspective on each and every vote she has casted so far shows that there is a severe lack of critical thinking and logic. None of it feels genuine unlike Lily or Wheme.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

“ I don’t defend my town reads.”

You’re full of it just like your partner Bins!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It doesn’t have make sense to anyone.

It’s how I play. Meta me if you want and ask my girlfriend how much I don’t like neighborhoods or anything resembling them.

[Desperado]

I don’t scum read you for being on the Lily wagon however she was obvious town and it does reinforce my read.

Spoiler: luv's carcalilly progression

VOTE: Carcalilly

serious vote

whemestar why

I wanna keep reason to myself for a bit

Well then.

VOTE: WhemeStar

It's been a bit, start talking.

Has it really? It was just earlier today.

So when exactly does the timer expire for you for someone to claim to be making a serious vote without a case? I don't like the whole 'coax my reasons out of me,' which I thought was obvious from what I quoted. Not to mention he (WhemeStar) is now claiming not to like giving reasons, so fuck that noise. It's an easy stance for scum to take, where their opinions can shift or not shift based on absolutely no visible point of reference for the rest of us. I got burned by that recently enough that I'm not interested in entertaining it further.

And I can't follow a lot stemming from my previous post thanks to pronouns, complicated by the fact that I'm assuming anything directed at me would be using female pronouns *cough*

Certainly doesn't expire for me in less than 24 hours. I don't have a reason to town read Lily, she's in no danger of getting lynched, and I don't have any scum reads at the moment. So I don't feel a need to take issue with the vote at this time.

I understand you want to force some sort of justification for the stance, in order to nail him to a limited array of explanations for if, and when, he does decide to explain the scum read in detail. But I don't think it's worth pursuing right now based on my experiences with him.

There are strategic reasons for not explaining scum reads right away and I can't help but feel your issue with Wheme is play style and not motivation.

Lily's fine for now.

Why? I've scum read people in the past for repeatedly doing anti-town things.

You know as well I do that Lily has a scummy play style. You're acting like you aren't going to take that into account at all.

My issue with these new wagons is that they feel shitty.

Why does wheme's feel that way? Why does Wheme wagon feel worse than the Bins wagon, where Bins at least has some analysis and commentary that was attempted on the game, rather than just naked votes and self meta.

You answered your own question. Naked votes and self-meta is a terrible reason to vote for someone.

The given reasons Bins has stated for her pushes make them awful. The perspective on each and every vote she has casted so far shows that there is a severe lack of critical thinking and logic. None of it feels genuine unlike Lily or Wheme.

Lily, can you describe your flavour?

Lily is at school I think so probably won't hear from her until 10pm.

obvtown huh?

riiiiiiiight

[Desperado]

All you’ve doing is trying to make us look incompetent or create doubt so town will follow your lead instead of ours.

You’re looking to try shout down reasons why we scum read you when you should be trying to convince us that Hebi is somehow better than Bins today.

actually what i'm doing is poking at your claim because i don't believe it

i don't feel particularly inclined to do anything for you when you were obviously comfortable with the gamestate when it was 4/4 on tfl/bins and you and your mason partner were split and made absolutely no effort to move it forward

^there's no town motivation here

[penguin_alien]

@Lil Uzi Vert: That's not refuting the wagon on Carcalilly. It's you saying you town read her with no supporting evidence and interfering in my dialogue with her. All in the first 10 pages or so of the game except your last quote, which was an aside about your town reading her at a point where she had one vote. If that's you defending your town read, I hope to high heaven that I never have to have you defending me.

Neighborhoods =/= masonry, JFC. You say you like playing scum better, a masonry should be right up your alley. I'm not asking your girlfriend about your meta, especially when she seems to think you aren't making sense here:

I'm saying LUV isn't making sense.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement to sheep you.

Actually, Chickadee, what's your take on the part of all this where you are voting Lil Uzi Vert's scum read? Is it because or in spite of his scum read?

[Desperado]

“ I don’t defend my town reads.”

You’re full of it just like your partner Bins!

there's very little defense in the quotes you posted. most of them don't even mention lily. this is your ISO after lily's claim with them at l-1

Lily, can you describe your flavour?

Time flies

Nice.

I see what you did there

Never can have enough VCs.

Lily is at school I think so probably won't hear from her until 10pm.

We don’t trust you.

like...seriously?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t scum read you for being on the Lily wagon however she was obvious town and it does reinforce my read.

Spoiler: luv's carcalilly progression

VOTE: Carcalilly

serious vote

whemestar why

I wanna keep reason to myself for a bit

Well then.

VOTE: WhemeStar

It's been a bit, start talking.

Has it really? It was just earlier today.

So when exactly does the timer expire for you for someone to claim to be making a serious vote without a case? I don't like the whole 'coax my reasons out of me,' which I thought was obvious from what I quoted. Not to mention he (WhemeStar) is now claiming not to like giving reasons, so fuck that noise. It's an easy stance for scum to take, where their opinions can shift or not shift based on absolutely no visible point of reference for the rest of us. I got burned by that recently enough that I'm not interested in entertaining it further.

And I can't follow a lot stemming from my previous post thanks to pronouns, complicated by the fact that I'm assuming anything directed at me would be using female pronouns *cough*

Certainly doesn't expire for me in less than 24 hours. I don't have a reason to town read Lily, she's in no danger of getting lynched, and I don't have any scum reads at the moment. So I don't feel a need to take issue with the vote at this time.

I understand you want to force some sort of justification for the stance, in order to nail him to a limited array of explanations for if, and when, he does decide to explain the scum read in detail. But I don't think it's worth pursuing right now based on my experiences with him.

There are strategic reasons for not explaining scum reads right away and I can't help but feel your issue with Wheme is play style and not motivation.

Lily's fine for now.

Why? I've scum read people in the past for repeatedly doing anti-town things.

You know as well I do that Lily has a scummy play style. You're acting like you aren't going to take that into account at all.

My issue with these new wagons is that they feel shitty.

Why does wheme's feel that way? Why does Wheme wagon feel worse than the Bins wagon, where Bins at least has some analysis and commentary that was attempted on the game, rather than just naked votes and self meta.

You answered your own question. Naked votes and self-meta is a terrible reason to vote for someone.

The given reasons Bins has stated for her pushes make them awful. The perspective on each and every vote she has casted so far shows that there is a severe lack of critical thinking and logic. None of it feels genuine unlike Lily or Wheme.

Lily, can you describe your flavour?

Lily is at school I think so probably won't hear from her until 10pm.

obvtown huh?

riiiiiiiight

Funny how you forgot to quote me saying I don't trust Penguin after Boon asked to unvote. Literally none of that is me expressing any doubt on my read on Lily but I can see how you feel it was. I was asking her to flavour claim in order to strengthen her claim so people can unvote.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

All you’ve doing is trying to make us look incompetent or create doubt so town will follow your lead instead of ours.

You’re looking to try shout down reasons why we scum read you when you should be trying to convince us that Hebi is somehow better than Bins today.

actually what i'm doing is poking at your claim because i don't believe it

i don't feel particularly inclined to do anything for you when you were obviously comfortable with the gamestate when it was 4/4 on tfl/bins and you and your mason partner were split and made absolutely no effort to move it forward

^there's no town motivation here

If you don't believe it then you should absolutely be voting one of us and not Hebi. However you're scum afraid of the blow back from lynching a mason.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Lil Uzi Vert: That's not refuting the wagon on Carcalilly. It's you saying you town read her with no supporting evidence and interfering in my dialogue with her. All in the first 10 pages or so of the game except your last quote, which was an aside about your town reading her at a point where she had one vote. If that's you defending your town read, I hope to high heaven that I never have to have you defending me.

Neighborhoods =/= masonry, JFC. You say you like playing scum better, a masonry should be right up your alley. I'm not asking your girlfriend about your meta, especially when she seems to think you aren't making sense here:

I'm saying LUV isn't making sense.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement to sheep you.

Actually, Chickadee, what's your take on the part of all this where you are voting Lil Uzi Vert's scum read? Is it because or in spite of his scum read?

I never said it was. I just showed how I defended her. Just because it isn't sufficient and strong enough for you doesn't mean I didn't.

It should but it isn't. Next.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

“ I don’t defend my town reads.”

You’re full of it just like your partner Bins!

there's very little defense in the quotes you posted. most of them don't even mention lily. this is your ISO after lily's claim with them at l-1

Lily, can you describe your flavour?

Time flies

Nice.

I see what you did there

Never can have enough VCs.

And I quoted defending before that? Yet you ignore it.

Lily is at school I think so probably won't hear from her until 10pm.

We don’t trust you.

like...seriously?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

“ I don’t defend my town reads.”

You’re full of it just like your partner Bins!

there's very little defense in the quotes you posted. most of them don't even mention lily. this is your ISO after lily's claim with them at l-1

Lily, can you describe your flavour?

Time flies

Nice.

I see what you did there

Never can have enough VCs.

And I quoted defending before that? Yet you ignore it.

Lily is at school I think so probably won't hear from her until 10pm.

We don’t trust you.

like...seriously?

And I quoted defending before that? Yet you ignore it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Both of you should view me and Why as confirmed scum if you don't buy the claim but you're choosing to vote elsewhere.

[gerryoat]

VOTE: hebichan

this gets rope