Newbie 1823 - Game Over

[Huntress]

Vote Count 2.2

Virtuoso (2) - Maestro, Archwing
Maestro (1) - SIV36
Archwing (1) - Awoo
FancyPants (1) - Rubicon
SIV36 (1) - Virtuoso

Not voting (1) - FancyPants


With seven players alive, it takes four votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day two is Sunday, 15th October 6pm BST, (in (expired on 2017-10-15 18:00:00)).

V/LA UNTIL SATURDAY, KILLER MIDTERM COMING UP

Noted.

[Huntress]

WARNING:

1. This is a game. Have fun. Play to win but please don’t make personal attacks or use derogatory language. Just play your part and help to make the game fun for everyone!

SIV36's comments in 379 are personal attacks and are not acceptable. Please don't make comments like this.

[Archwing]

So, d2 SIV is definitely not the d1 SIV. I'm not sure if it's scum!SIV, but I'm getting a scumlean.

Remembering my initial reads of him (and referencing what awoo pointed out with him blaming other people of what he himself does) is hard to look past.

So why aren't you voting him?

The same reason why I'm not voting you, or virtuoso. I don't know how to measure and compare which of you is the scummiest. I know it sounds stupid, but I'm starting to fall behind, getting confused, and I'm still figuring out where to continue.

Am I mistaken that you asked this because you are still defending Maestro? I have a hard time putting myself in this similar situation and understanding it. I see people make arguments against other people which I don't agree with.

I see people scum-reading players that I have town-read. Yet I enjoy allowing it to happen. I get the popcorn out and watch my town-read player defend himself, while also considering that my reads are wrong and that the other person actually has a good point. I actually never get that urge to jump in and defend another player because I honestly don't know what side anyone is on.

So your motivation in blocking my attacks toward maestro is really intriguing to me. The last 3 games, the scum have done this to me. They get right in between me and the person I'm suspecting very much like you are.

The part in bold pinged me. You basically admit to not knowing (ie: no reads) and saying that you'd rather do nothing about it? why play the game then? This seems scummy to me.

352 and 357 are awful IMO. Like, what is this meant to accomplish? scum feigning emotion, as you accused me of in d1 with respect to Adilm?
379 Is almost like an OMGUS? Like, Maestro applies a bit of pressure, and SIV just personally attacks him. I really don't like this at all. Especially the end-game comment at the end of the post. Maybe this is because Maestro, in my eyes, has earned town points as of late, and this is a bias on my side, but I think Maestro in end game is not the worst outcome, anymore.

Sry for miltipost, I’m on my phone.
I don’t think I’m the one that looks unhinged here, am I?

No.

Oh come on.

This "swing" that you guys (fancy and rubi) are mentioning is me having a toxic reaction to maestro's attitude. The reason I voted virtuoso is because maestro told me to in post 312. Pretty much, we are simpletons with no reasoning capabilities, so the most logical thing to do is follow maestro's lead (?)

Interesting how you both are pretending not being able to read between the lines.

Lol. Don't vote because someone tells you to. WTF? scummy as fuck.
______________

AWOO

I expect V to be able to at least come up with some explanation behind his strategy. I thought he was probably town because he asked to be copped at the end of d1, but then realized that if he is in a team of two goons, there is a 25% chance he will be able to do this without consequence.

Stop going on and on about this PR tell thing. Town is not supposed to find it's PRs, we are supposed to keep them hidden, and it is scummy as hell to look for them.

I agree with this a lot. As soon as Town PR's come to surface, they're gone and we've lost a PR to help us. I think scum would not make this obvious.

Was gonna vote rubicon but then I remembered there's no response to 323.

Excuse me, where are my manners?

I have a grand total of 3 posts on you and a single vote, and now I'm tunneling and flashwagoning? No.

The worst part of this is that you say I know you're town, but you won't just come out and call me scum when I'm calling you out for being too cautious. So who is it, then? Is it me? Do you still think it's maestro?

I can understand being back and forth on adlim, I would be reluctant to lynch him as well, but the incriminating part is that you didn't push for anyone else.

Are you really going to call 154 an analysis? 3/4 of those quote stripes are just "I disagree with your points on this".

(notice how all the bullshit you're trying to call me out on, I'm not the only one that has done any of it?)

So you've admitted that my points are valid and you're scummy? "He's doing it too" isn't a valid response while it is incriminating.

Maybe tunneling and flashwagon was an exaggeration, but tell me when MS doesn't have exaggerations? I used the language I used to spark a reaction.
No, I don't think you are scum. I've got you pretty high on my town list, although apparently it's scummy to give people town reads, as per you and FP.
I didn't push for anyone else on D1 because I think the adilm lynch was a good option for town, and it seemed clear to me that no one else was going to get lynched that day. I thought adilm was better than no lynch.
I called your points bullshit, and you think that's me saying they're valid? lol. Just seems like you have a bit of a hardon for me, and you're bias is making you look past other people.
______
FP

Also @FP: You literally said "I've got nothing to hide" which just... is one of those things that just irks me

I'm just saying if you wanna throw shade then come at me, rather than make nebulous accusations.

Nebulous. This isn’t the SAT, dude.

Who is scum and why?

My best bets are {Rubicon/SIV/Archwing} from process of elimination.
I don't like SIV and Archwing's swing on day 2, on to both

opposing

wagons. Gun to my head I'd rather go Archwing, I still have the tonal read on SIV from day 1.
Archwing's basically just voted on the trendiest wagon at the time, makes me feel like he's not that concerned with hunting specific threats (like a townie would) but rather interested in voting for whoever has momentum.
Rubicon, because it can't be that easy.

In response to the swing you speak of here, I can respect where that read comes from. From my perspective, I had my #1 SR Maestro make a very convincing argument against one of my townleans. This wasn't something that in my head I could refute right away. This did earn town points for maestro, and scum points for V. I wanted to investigate it further. This is why I switched my vote, to apply pressure to V. It did happen fast, in a "swingy" way, I can admit, but that is my motivation behind it.

________
Rubicon

221222[223[/post] are all about bashing V's proposed BP strategy, essentially calling it insane, right at the end of d1.
328 you claim not BP, and a hypocop claim! why the sudden change of heart (within about 5 of your posts)

I also think Fen dying before SIV is really weird?

This. I found this to be strange. Obviously, SIV is acting super weird now, but d1 SIV was probably the most town out of anyone.
332 Your discussion here with SIV about the whole PR thing on Maestro is kind of stupid. And this was shortly after Maestro came in and shut it down. It was kind of laid to rest, and you dug it back up. "Either way, it's interesting the scumteam didn't shoot Maestro over the PR tell thing." not interesting at all, really? Maestro, after d1, was better lynchbait than Fen was.

Either way, it's interesting the scumteam didn't shoot Maestro over the PR tell thing.

Huh? You're the second person to assume I'm a PR, with basically no evidence.

If I were a PR, I wouldn't be able to submit an action Night 0 (during pregame) so I'd be going into Day 1 with exactly as much information as you all. So nothing I did yesterDay should be indicative of being a PR or not. My disapproval of the hypoclaim is also Non-PR-Indicative... so why does everybody keep saying shit liek this?

PEDIT: I'll believe it when I see it

That isn't what I said, but it doesn't seem like a good conversation to continue.


VOTE: FancyPants

Why the vote on FP? that was kind of out of nowhere.

Can we also note how V's top two SR's after adilm were Maestro and Rubicon? Both aren't on this list. Lines up a bit with what Maestro said in bold here.

I don't follow. Can you explain what you're getting at here?

Throughout day 1, excluding Adilm, V had Maestro and yourself as his top two reads. As Maestro pointed out in 318 " if any of those 4 are Scum you know they're breathing easier now that they have fewer people to worry about getting Night Action results on them..."

Making the implication that at least one of the 4 people in his table are scum. Could be V/? or could be ?/? (? refers to person on the table.) What is interesting is that if Maestro's theory is correct, then his SRing of both Maestro and yourself would be incorrect, and could be scum trying to form a wagon against someone else.

My post 342 was adding additional evidence in support of Maestro's theory here.

Maybe I'm being dense, but I still don't get what you're saying here?

Maestro mentioned a hypothetical scenario where at least one of me/Virtuoso/SIV/FancyPants is scum. You seem to be saying that if that random hypothetical world is true, then Virtuoso is not 100% right in his reads. Therefore he is trying to mislynch someone, and scum?

No, it means that scum!V is directing Town to mislynch other townies.

391 I think is one of your better posts in a long time. Up to here, I was considering Rubi/SIV s/s, but I really don't see a point of bussing at this stage in the game, so I think one of {Rubi/SIV} is scum, but not both.

I need more from V before I remove my vote. I will now go back and look at V/Rubi and V/SIV and see if anything here makes sense.

[Archwing]

ebwop: sorry, meant to spoiler each person. did not mean to wall text. Also, good luck on the midterm Awoo!

[Archwing]

I'm feeling a lot better and took some time to re read this game. My internet is not working well so I am phone posting. I will have some more detailed analysis later tonight when I have access to better internet.

Maestro - I really took a lot of time here to avoid conf biasing here. I looked at the last game we played together (Newbie 1796 - Triathalon in which I was scum) and I believe Maestro is town. His frustration with me feels genuine and understandable. As an IC, sometimes I focus so much on my role as a teacher that I forget that I'm also a player.

SIV - I find his comment directed towards Maestro having NPD quite abhorrent. There's no excuse for such accusation and language. That being said, SIV is a fairly strong scum read at this point. His progression today on Maestro/Myself/Maestro does not make a whole lot of sense from a town PO

These are the two I spent the most time trying to sort out. I'll have a more detailed analysis later.

VOTE: SIV

Also I standby every strategy that I have proposed.

Glad to hear you are feeling better. Now, respond to this please:

Feel better soon, V.

When you get back, can you respond to the statistic that i think Maestro posted? the 50% vs 25% post? I found it to be very interesting.

Once I get back, this will be the first thing I respond to.

Also, your latest post which I quoted first, could be a bussing attempt, seeing how downhill SIV has gone in d2.
I can respect the strategy, and I respect that it has worked twice for you in the past. And I don't necessarily doubt that it would help us here in this game. What I don't like is how you have been evading the last few pages of criticism of it. Its like we are meant to put blind faith into you and follow this because you are our IC. I don't like it.

[FancyPants]

VOTE: SIV
Very squirrelly response to not all that much pressure. I'm not 100% confident in this vote, but Archwing is churning out sheer volumes of effort, I know scum can fake effort but it's less likely in my opinion.
I'm feeling a little pocketed by Rubicon, but am still very wary.

[Awoo]

I wanna vote SIV because he's scum but that would put him at L-1

what do??

[Awoo]

but I also don't want this to be a repeat of d1: apathy induced policy lynch on the worst (town) player. FOS fancy/virt very hard if we lynch siv and he's green.

fucking, , all it takes to get to 5man lylo is 2 awful townies that don't play the game

[Rubicon]

I don't really agree with the archwing effort thing.

[SIV36]

but I also don't want this to be a repeat of d1: apathy induced policy lynch on the worst (town) player. FOS fancy/virt very hard if we lynch siv and he's green.

fucking, , all it takes to get to 5man lylo is 2 awful townies that don't play the game

So you say you looked up my meta, (which is all town, I haven't been mafia yet), and noticed that I get upset a lot, replace out, or lynched each time on d1. For you, you say this is the proof you need that makes me mafia.

Now your saying you're pretty confident that I'm just a bad townie and that you are really concerned about going into MYLO. Can I ask for your thought process exactly?

I also find fancypants suspicious. I don't get genuine vibes from him actually suspecting me. He knows my role, and is doing his best to blend into the crowd.
VOTE: fancypants

[SIV36]

I see people are assuming that I have had a change of heart towards Archwing. I never did think he got any more townier since day 1, nor did I even say anything like that. Saying anything to him, or about him, is useless because his scummy play is apparent and obvious to everyone playing. For novelty, what I'm looking for now is anything that could redeem him as town, but nothing really stands out.

Oddly, I can't point to anyone and say they are townie. You all are giving me scum-vibes for different reasons.

I believe it was rubicon who guessed that I'm not really even trying. He guessed right, I started losing interest when the claiming started to happen.

[Virtuoso]

but I also don't want this to be a repeat of d1: apathy induced policy lynch on the worst (town) player. FOS fancy/virt very hard if we lynch siv and he's green.

fucking, , all it takes to get to 5man lylo is 2 awful townies that don't play the game

So you say you looked up my meta, (which is all town, I haven't been mafia yet), and noticed that I get upset a lot, replace out, or lynched each time on d1. For you, you say this is the proof you need that makes me mafia.

Now your saying you're pretty confident that I'm just a bad townie and that you are really concerned about going into MYLO. Can I ask for your thought process exactly?

I also find fancypants suspicious. I don't get genuine vibes from him actually suspecting me. He knows my role, and is doing his best to blend into the crowd.
VOTE: fancypants

Yuck. This post pings me hard.

[Virtuoso]

@SIV36 - have you ever played scum off site?

[Maestro]

Has SIV voted every living player today? Somebody check.

[SIV36]

@Virtuoso No.

Interesting side story: I tried playing a whole bunch of rounds of super-saint mafia with friends irl, and oddly, I never got chosen as mafia in those games either. Not that that means anything though. I'm still not mafia in this round either.

[SIV36]

but I also don't want this to be a repeat of d1: apathy induced policy lynch on the worst (town) player. FOS fancy/virt very hard if we lynch siv and he's green.

fucking, , all it takes to get to 5man lylo is 2 awful townies that don't play the game

So you say you looked up my meta, (which is all town, I haven't been mafia yet), and noticed that I get upset a lot, replace out, or lynched each time on d1. For you, you say this is the proof you need that makes me mafia.

Now your saying you're pretty confident that I'm just a bad townie and that you are really concerned about going into MYLO. Can I ask for your thought process exactly?

I also find fancypants suspicious. I don't get genuine vibes from him actually suspecting me. He knows my role, and is doing his best to blend into the crowd.
VOTE: fancypants

Yuck. This post pings me hard.

I'm sorry, this is getting me peeved. I can relate to the suspicions on fancypants pinging you. I did just throw it at him with nothing. But my concerns towards awoo is legit. Looking up my meta, and noticing that I've never made it past D1 is the dumbest reason for thinking I'm mafia that I've ever heard.

Were you just going to vote me without any reason, or are you willing to tell us what exactly your thoughts on yuck are?

[Rubicon]

VOTE: Arch

Think this is a better vote than SIV at the moment.

[Rubicon]

So you say you looked up my meta, (which is all town, I haven't been mafia yet), and noticed that I get upset a lot, replace out, or lynched each time on d1. For you, you say this is the proof you need that makes me mafia.

Now your saying you're pretty confident that I'm just a bad townie and that you are really concerned about going into MYLO. Can I ask for your thought process exactly?

Second this question.

I see people are assuming that I have had a change of heart towards Archwing. I never did think he got any more townier since day 1, nor did I even say anything like that. Saying anything to him, or about him, is useless because his scummy play is apparent and obvious to everyone playing. For novelty, what I'm looking for now is anything that could redeem him as town, but nothing really stands out.

Oddly, I can't point to anyone and say they are townie. You all are giving me scum-vibes for different reasons.

I believe it was rubicon who guessed that I'm not really even trying. He guessed right, I started losing interest when the claiming started to happen.

Why did that make you lose interest?

[Rubicon]

but I also don't want this to be a repeat of d1: apathy induced policy lynch on the worst (town) player. FOS fancy/virt very hard if we lynch siv and he's green.

fucking, , all it takes to get to 5man lylo is 2 awful townies that don't play the game

So you say you looked up my meta, (which is all town, I haven't been mafia yet), and noticed that I get upset a lot, replace out, or lynched each time on d1. For you, you say this is the proof you need that makes me mafia.

Now your saying you're pretty confident that I'm just a bad townie and that you are really concerned about going into MYLO. Can I ask for your thought process exactly?

I also find fancypants suspicious. I don't get genuine vibes from him actually suspecting me. He knows my role, and is doing his best to blend into the crowd.
VOTE: fancypants

Yuck. This post pings me hard.

Why?

Line one is a pretty good point. Line two is actually scumhunting, asking Awoo to explain his thought process. Line three is, at the very least, phrased from a town point of view ("this person knows I'm town") and he's not wrong that fancypants is flying under the radar here.

There are certainly issues with SIV that could make him scummy, but this post is not one of them? You provide no explanation, either, so... pretty lazy.

[Rubicon]

@Virtuoso No.

Interesting side story: I tried playing a whole bunch of rounds of super-saint mafia with friends irl, and oddly, I never got chosen as mafia in those games either. Not that that means anything though. I'm still not mafia in this round either.

The RNG gods are mysterious. I've been scum in like, nine of my last ten games - it's horrible.

(Not this one though, I promise.)

[SIV36]

@Rubicon

I don't mean to criticize the role-claiming. I thought it was just standard procedure for strategy and didn't see anything obviously wrong with it. During that time, the conversation was focused on being certain it was actually a good strategy, and not just virtuoso trying to win town-cred, or screwing us over with a perfect trap as mafia.

After that, I stopped reading into Archwing's posts because nothing new was there, and started looking into different avenues. Which eventually lead me here, with slightly more apathy.

[SIV36]

Ok, I'm dumb.

After re-reading fancypant's "I'm not too confident...." it became apparent that I'm often over-reacting, and not reading people's comments fully.

Using the dowsing sticks, they point to: VOTE: Awoo

[Maestro]

Ok, why?

[FancyPants]

VLA this weekend unfortunately, be back Monday.

[Huntress]

Noted.