Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[X Luxord]

I think they're moreso just trolling/having fun rather than trying to make things toxic?

[X Luxord]

Does it matter if Zexion is scum if they're apparently going to roll us if they are scum anyways?

[X Luxord]

Meh, I'm okay to goof around a little bit but I'm too old at heart to have real fun nowadays outside RVS.
):
Look at my sad angry bitter eyes.
And upset goatee.
And subdued earring.

P-Edit: We lynched Vexen isn't that exciting!

[X Luxord]

Just because something CAN be scumXig doesn't mean it IS scumXig.
And there's that in this playerlist pretty much everyone is still paranoid of him, so why bother bussing a buddy into the ground if you get absolutely nothing for it?
Vexen would NEVER have gotten lynched yesterday without Xig pushing him.
Literally never.
And his role is strong.
Why the fuck does he even bother with that?
Especially if his role is a reflexive roleblocker lol.
Vexen also wouldn't have dropped his push on Xig if it was all just a bus for cred.
So.
No.
Bad Saix.

Xig and I didn't shoot Lex last night so that you could carry on their bad reads from the afterlife.

[X Luxord]

Vexen would NEVER have gotten lynched yesterday without Xig pushing him.
Literally never.
And

his

Lexen's role is strong.
Why the fuck does

he

Xig even bother with that?
Especially if his role is a reflexive roleblocker lol.

For clarity's sake.

God this game is full of idiots.

welcome to the club friend
(:

[X Luxord]

Oh Xaldin's results.
Lex told me who they targeted (or who they said they were going to target, totally possible they were lying because they thought I was scum) (and it wasn't Axel or Xig (and if they were lying about who they targeted they definitely wouldn't have targeted either of them because they were also in their scumpile)).
Which basically means Demyx/Zexion can't be the scumteam.
:/

And the only way Marluxia could be the scum who made the nightkill is if they're ninja.
I don't really know what to make of that.

[X Luxord]

o:
What a shocking surprise who Xig is!
(No. They claimed they were going to target Xemnas.)

[X Luxord]

Xig if Zex is scum who is their partner at this point? Axel, Xaldin and Demyx don't really make any sense to me on that front

[X Luxord]

"Xig is capable of all sorts of manipulation, but he didn't just manipulate us into lynching someone who wasn't his scumbuddy." 10/10. Honestly Xig is proving his point that you can't objectively read him and that you would call him scum/try to get him lynched regardless of what he rolled here.

[X Luxord]

Shoot from the hip!
Bang!
VOTE: Axel

[X Luxord]

I probably need more time to sit with the ISO in general, but Vexen didn't give any blowback to Axel pushing him in the same way he did everyone else.

[X Luxord]

Should just ignore him and focus on wagoning the shit out of people.
I would personally probably prefer Axel because he's probably more readable than Demyx/Zexion under pressure.
Also because he's now my pet read and I like feeling important.

[X Luxord]

Probable that they just lied to me about who they were targeting then? The hood was really frustrating and I think Lex was coming out of it with a bigger scumread on me than they started with because I said that "Xaldin would sort himself out" and they thought that was incredibly scummy. Was so mad. Zzzz.

[X Luxord]

Lex was making a huge fuss out of it and saying there was mechanical reason for me to neighborize them and that I was scumclaiming if I didn't. Trust me, I regret it a fucking lot.

[X Luxord]

I am not fake news ):

[X Luxord]

Axel can you please poke Zexion to explain why they're not voting me and voting Saix instead?
Because I have literally no idea why they would be from what they're posting if they think I was apparently bussing and am being fake compared to just "oh well Saix said Axel is a nightskipper".
I don't get it?

[X Luxord]

Yeah I think that Zexion is townreading me because they said I was bussing Vexen.
Lol.

[X Luxord]

We could try to win before we get to that point???

[X Luxord]

So, can we vote someone we think is going to flip scum?
In effect, lynching Saix is pretty much equivalent to not lynching him as it brings us down a cycle.
Though, I strongly agree that we should be pushing him to use his shot tonight.

[X Luxord]

@Zexion

, find some way to make things unambiguous please? Are you being misrepresented by Axel or no? If the former, why are you still voting Saix?

Axel being town would make Xaldin more likely to be scum, but he doesn't look particularly scummy. Am still probably most confident lynching in Demyx/Axel and moving onto Zexion if we see a town flip in Axel and revisiting some of my weaker townreads if Demyx flips town.

Do you think scumXaldin targets those three players as scum tri-tracker? And then actually claims the results?

[X Luxord]

Are they calling my line of questioning bullshit?
Maybe?
Seriously don't get why they aren't just trying to funnel thoughts through you instead of posting ambiguous gifs.

[X Luxord]

Axel's probably town.
):

Getting less okay with Roxas's lack of presence in the game.
Their ISO wrt Vexen is really ehhhhhhhhh.
They need to get back in here.

[X Luxord]

Stupid.

[X Luxord]

You're the only person in the game who thinks this "oh if I don't use it then scum won't kill me" strategy makes any sense.
Scum isn't going to kill you period, regardless of whether you use your vigshot or not.

[X Luxord]

"hello everyone I have a pipe dream of what my role maybe might be in a lylo situation so unfortunately I will deny the rest of you an opportunity to parse another towndriven flip because I somehow think my role townfirms me by not using it"
Just watch you get lynched in lylo saix. Just watch it happen. Mafia's a team game. You don't win by sitting on your hands, calling a single player who's never getting lynched right now scum and refusing all other discourse and then asking everyone else to play by your self driven rules?
Really isn't how the game works. Sorry to burst your bubble. I'm not saying I think xem and zex's votes on you are inspiring, but honestly you more or less deserve it for playing only for yourself this game in a stupid frustrating way. They're apparently both townreading you and are voting you. Isn't that embarrassing? :/

[X Luxord]

Also not seeing what any of my apparent assumptions are.
You literally only address your Xig read, which again, really doesn't inspire confidence in your ability, which again is why people are saying you're never getting nightkilled. You typically have to be a threat to scum to get shot.

[X Luxord]

It only upgraded if there was an opportunity to use it I believe. Part of Lex's reasons for me to neighborhood them was that they thought that the hated modifier should go on someone with extra chance of being nightkilled.

[X Luxord]

They could have been wrong about their role or lying but the reasons for them wanting me to neighborhood them were strongly indicative of them believing that they were still just a bg.

Anyway yeah there isn't a world in which demyxwagon isn't where this day goes at this point and the concept of saix/demyx scumteam kind of maybe works?
Weeeeeeee
VOTE: demyx
Claimclaimclaim

[X Luxord]

More or less feel like we should just be lynching Demyx now.
I don't think we're getting much from this phase anymore other than a futile attempt to bully Saix into using his shot that I don't think will work.
Which is even assuming he's even town at this point, which, tbh, Roxas kind of flipped my read there. The more I think about Saix in general, the more it just doesn't make any sense to me that he wouldn't want to shoot Xig if he was town and genuinely believed that Xig was scum here knowing that he can't get him lynched? I'm more just leaning towards him being scum who was forced into an unsustainable claim and is now trying to delay proving it.

Saix/Demyx makes a lot of sense to me in general as a scumteam.

[X Luxord]

Xigbar, Luxord, Saix, and probably Roxas as much as I hate it are probably town.

scum are in Xaldin, Marlexia, and Zexion

What about Axel?

[X Luxord]

combo breaker

[X Luxord]

Typical play of scum!xig. Call a person scum and then lynch them.

So, the way you outline it, whatever I would have done, I would be a lynchee.

What do you think townXig does?

[X Luxord]

You don't think poking townHim for as long as you have produces a response like the one you're receiving?

Like, I struggle to believe that you think this is outside his town-vocabulary, and this constant confidence level is just really starting to look stale. You really think there's no argument to Xig bussing Vexen being really stupid? Do you not think that Xig/Vexen couldn't have alternated driving lynches? The two of them could have driven town to lynch so many other people so many times. How are you this confident about this?
I seriously don't get it at all.

Do you have any reads that aren't this one single solitary death read?

[X Luxord]

really just rolling with this whole Xig is the only scum in the game schtick eh?

[X Luxord]

It's about whether your perspective here is actually real or not. It's unbelievably easy to take one slot, fake a read on it and comment on nothing else as scum. I have literally 0 trust for you right now when you're unwilling to look at anything other than Xig.

And tbh it's not like you're even analyzing Xig with any level of full perspective either. You just keep repeating that he's being bullheaded and unreasonable, when he hasn't been exclusively pushing for your lynch anyways. Acting like him pushing you at all is the equivalent of him deathtunneling a slot without any room to reassess and compromise is a pretty blatant misrep of his play. You also still haven't addressed why he would bus Vexen.

As long as you continue to keep pushing this simplistic narrative of "XIG CANT BE TRUSTED BECAUSE HE'S XIG" with absolutely no critical analysis of anything else in the game, I'm going to think you're probably just scum?

[X Luxord]

VOTE: Saix
OK I'm following my new rule of not letting cycles drag.
We should lynch Saix and progress the game because the gamestate is shit right now.

[X Luxord]

oh damn
what a namedrop

I honestly have thought Axel's frustrations with Zex's ptStuff looks kind of real and pretty much every time I've thought they were scum, they've responded in a way that made me feel a lot less sure about it.
Would probably be closer to leaning town on them atm.

[X Luxord]

At the end of the day, Saix has a claim that basically is the exact same thing as yours (on top of what Lex flipped), has been calling you obvscum but refuses to shoot you or anyone, has been coasting by on the same read for the last two cycles without engaging anyone on it in any meaningful kind of way that basically allows him to do nothing and as you pointed out, hard defended Vexen against you in spite of him scumreading him. I don't see any reason to sit on this. Especially since tomorrow we're probably going to have some level of clarity on Zex/Axel.

[X Luxord]

we could wagon me instead

[X Luxord]

Because at this exact moment in time, Saix's claim and behavior seeming fake is what's most resonant with me.
Please don't detract momentum from a wagon if you aren't pushing an alternative.

[X Luxord]

So you think that Saix goes "holy fuck Xig is obv scum, why is no one voting him? If only I had some way to remove him from the game.." and comes up blank?

[X Luxord]

?? So you agree that it seems fake then? Or am I/are you misunderstanding something?

[X Luxord]

I could reread you hard defending Vexen while scumreading him while I'm there if you'd like?
"omg xig was wrong on a read they must be scum" - real posting by real person with real read

[X Luxord]

I honestly have thought Axel's frustrations with Zex's ptStuff looks kind of real and pretty much every time I've thought they were scum, they've responded in a way that made me feel a lot less sure about it.

I'm not particularly invested with dealing with this right now, but being frustrated about communication issues isn't indicative of alignment in anyway whatsoever. I don't know what town reactions you're talking about when he hasn't actually responded to your case against him from what I can tell.

I can pull specifics of what made me lean back the other way tomorrow if not tonight.
I will say that the frustration about Zexion feels townier than it would otherwise because Axel hasn't even remotely tried to use Zexion's inability to communicate to paint them as scummy.
Really wouldn't be hard to try and take advantage of that. Instead he's coming across as someone demotivated and doesn't know who scum is.
That's my lame gut hipshot take on him atm.

At the end of the day, Saix has a claim that basically is the exact same thing as yours

Having a vig shot isn't "basically the same thing" as Xigbar's role. There's no reason for him to shoot Xigbar as town when Xigbar will block and waste his shot. Him defending Vexen against Xigbar (despite scumreading Vexen) is pretty much to be expected when Xigbar is his strongest scumread and they're engaged in a 1v1.

Part of Saix's claimed role is that he shoots anyone who shoots him.
In effect, if you think Xig is town and Saix is town, that means town had the potential for three passive abilities (with Lex's final upgrade) that would severely punish scum for nightkilling any of them.
If you think Axel is scum and Xig/Saix are town that basically means that this game's setup is entirely oriented around not letting scum nightkill anyone they want to.

has been coasting by on the same read for the last two cycles without engaging anyone on it in any meaningful kind of way that basically allows him to do nothing

You're painting his Xigbar push as the path of least resistance but tunneling the hell out of the most aggressive player in the game isn't that at all, especially since he continues to hold that position even after the Vexen scumflip that has most people calling Xigbar town.

Being stubborn is only town if it seems real.
Saix's play is super fucking wooden right now.
Read his last post.
Read it.
And look at me.
With a straight face and tell me "oh hey wow that's a real person with real thoughts and feelings saying something they genuinely think and feel".

And that's not even the most compelling part of why he's scum.
It literally makes no sense that Saix has had no interest in shooting Xig, while also being able to recognize that he's not going to be able to get him lynched.
It.
Makes.
No.
Sense.
From.
Town.
It only really makes sense if he's scum that's trying a talking point to generate content that won't step on many toes and might seem believable to people who have experience with Xig.

[X Luxord]

So, Lux, this is an open challenge to you to produce some evidence backing your statement.

Like. Lol. How is this not lynched yet? This isn't a real thing someone says.

[X Luxord]

(There's also that we're basically never lynching Axel today with Zex/Axel being a thing, so I don't understand why you would poke me about him unless you're trying to sort me?)

[X Luxord]

Here you go your hard defense:

Anyone who gets swayed by xig's case on vex should immediately check their d1 case on larx and how they were instrumental in lynching larx.

Just to clarify where I stand, VOTE: xigbar

Has Vex reached L?
Ok listen everyone, enough of fucking around.
If Vex flips town, we definitely have to lynch Xig tomorrow. Once is ok, mislynching twice is not ok.

Zex visited axel
Demyx visited xigbar
Marluxia went nowhere

Also now I have to admit xig is not scum that wasn't a bus >.> I kinda need to start from scratch now.

Explain why is Xig not a scum?

Bonus round:

We share 2/3 of our scumreads. Why don't you get past the fact that you feel the urge to policy lynch me and instead direct your energy at lynching Vexscum?

Vex, not yet. Lynch Axel with me. At best he is a VT now that he has used his power (so he says).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is garbage.

[X Luxord]

Though I guess it looks like he realized who Xig was between those posts?
Jesus this is such a shit tunnel if Saix is town, even if Xig does end up being scum.

[X Luxord]

If you think you're going to be lynched, why are you refusing to use your shot? Especially now that you're literally on the chopping block. You realize how that looks to literally everyone else in the game, right?

[X Luxord]

I will frankly be much much much angrier with you if you're town on merit of you refusing to use something that would firm you as town and help us solve the game, more than I will about any other merit of your play. It's literally borderline anti wincon for you to refuse if you're town, because it's losing us a free town-driven kill and driving us towards lynching you instead of lynching scum. If you're town, fucking seriously think about changing your position on this.

[X Luxord]

Again why do you care if Axel is off the table today?

[X Luxord]

I wouldn't powerlynch him if Saix were to flip town, no, but I'm probably going to be scared of him if he's around D5-D6 and we haven't hit another scum.

P-Edit: I mean it's certainly felt like the bulk of your attention/focus has been on trying to make me feel stupid about my lame poorly thought out gut Axel townlean.

[X Luxord]

I'm not saying I disagree with it, it's that I don't think it's a real thought?
That's super different?

[X Luxord]

He hasn't given that reason as to why he isn't doing it/hasn't done it though?

[X Luxord]

He's not confirmable town if he doesn't use his role though.
Lol.

[X Luxord]

UNVOTE:
Xig if you're calling me scum you're going back in the resort pile.
I can see some people misreading me this game, but not you.

[X Luxord]

Lol.
If you're seriously implying that this is even remotely within the range of my scumgame with what your experience with it is, when you literally have waltzed into a game and been able to spot my scumgame before, this is a fucking literal scumclaim from you.
So tread carefully bud.

[X Luxord]

I really don't think townYou needs to solve anything with my slot.

[X Luxord]

I feel like we more or less get that information D4 anyways if we lynch someone else though?

[X Luxord]

VOTE: demyx

[X Luxord]

Think Xig is selling the Lynch more than anything.

[X Luxord]

If saix/demyx is the scumteam then that's a scumbag replace out.

[X Luxord]

Xem you should really just hammer.
Like, it's garbage that the gamestate sucks right now, but Demyx isn't claiming, the lurkers probably aren't going to add anything more at this point and a flip will breathe some life into the gamestate.
Tomorrow we'll have Axel/Zexion stuff and Demyxflip to chew on.
We're at 10 people with 2 scum. We can afford to risk it for the biscuit on this flip.

There's an added bonus of pretty solid odds that he just flips scum.

[X Luxord]

Oh actually you're right. We can probably actually convince the replacement to shoot someone if they're town.

unvote

[X Luxord]

I don't really understand why you care if you're town with the sentiments you expressed earlier?

[X Luxord]

Here's a handy list for you:
i) Wooden play. I can see you being apathetic, but even your blowback at Roxas was relatively weak this game.
ii) Lack of any kind of paranoia.
iii) I haven't believed a single push you've made this game.
iv) The refusal to even consider Vexen was weird and I kind of doubt townYou lets up on those convictions instead of giving into Xig's push.
v) I would be disappointed if this were your towngame.

I could probably give more if I had read anything in this game in the last 3-4 days, but I'm borderline checked out and trusting where my gut is at.
Especially since we're probably about to get some kind of resolution on Zexion/Axel and Saixslot might actually take a shot tonight if he's town.
Why would I bother reconsidering/putting in effort when you've basically made it like pulling teeth to get you to give reads all game and the extent of your play since has been completely empty?

Your vote is on Zexion right now. Do you really think Zexion slot is getting lynched instead of you? If you're not going to put in effort to tell people what your reads are and you're vanity voting a slot that isn't getting lynched today, why am I bothering to parse your play here as anything other than scum who feels defeated?

[X Luxord]

Oh actually you're right. We can probably actually convince the replacement to shoot someone if they're town.

unvote

Before mod accepts that as a hammer I did in fact unvote here

@heartless

[X Luxord]

Yeah but Heartless was still counting my vote as of last votecount.
I don't want them to accidentally flip you when you aren't hammered.

[X Luxord]

Lol. Please don't.

I honestly have no fucking clue who to lynch now.
If Saix replaces in and guarantees to take a shot tonight I almost might prefer no lynching.

[X Luxord]

Why did you have to towntell q.q

[X Luxord]

I provoked you pretty hard tbh.

[X Luxord]

?

I've invented a cool game:
It's called "I'm not hashing things with you when you're just going to pretend that the sweeping extreme half-baked statements you make cause my opinions on things to be invalid".
I'm so excited to play it with you!

If someone who isn't you wants to call me stupid for doubting myself right now, I'll listen.
Cheers.

[X Luxord]

@Xig

, can you ask the mod whether your reflexive roleblock would stop the loud aspect of a role that targets you?

[X Luxord]

Your pred already claimed, so, really doesn't matter that much.
Are you willing to commit to shooting someone tonight?

Do you think Demyx is scum?

Not really, no, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was. I think Xigbar is scum.

Is there any chance you can lay out what the point of the post restriction stuff was?
And if not can you at least walk through what happened between you and Axel and why you were townleaning him for the interactions you were having in there?


In other news I was mulling over Xig's role in bed this morning (because what else does one do when they wake up) and it occurred to me that Vexen's role and Xig's role being scum would make 2/3rds of the scumteam untargettable. I feel like that'd be kind of overkill and ruins the whole point of a role-madness game if so.
Holding on to that might be easier for me than holding onto "Xig wouldn't bus there" because while I do still feel like that's the case, there's obviously problems with that.
Zzzzz.

[X Luxord]

I've honestly been tempted to hammer the last few times I've looked at this game just to spare Anti/TTH having to find three replacements.
I really don't know how to get back into this.

[X Luxord]

He's got a personality? As long as he shoots someone tonight I don't really feel like I have to start worrying about parsing him yet.

P-Edit: Lol.
Okay let me get the list randomizer out and I'll find out who we should lynch.

[X Luxord]

My time is up.
):

[X Luxord]

Is one of the reasons I didn't.

[X Luxord]

My kneejerk guess at Saix's identity would probably mean townSaix based on what he's done so far, so that's nice!

[X Luxord]

Xig

can you ask the mod whether a role with a loud modifier would still have the loud part of their role activate if they targeted you?

I have updated lame thoughts that aren't really informed by anything other than feeling somewhat reinvigorated by other people doing things in the game.

[X Luxord]

Did you receive a notification from the mod saying that someone targeted you?
Ie: loud notification?

[X Luxord]

Cool.
Demyxslot is scum then.

Pretty happy I bought into 5 seconds of AtE before.

[X Luxord]

?? I don't understand why you think he's scum then?

[X Luxord]

Demyx has been sniped with an arrowgun!

Xig's probably town.

[X Luxord]

And I mean, we already knew that before, but newXig is also being town.

[X Luxord]

It really hurts to imagine townDemyx deciding not to use his watch N1 and then using it on a claimed reflexive roleblocker N2.

[X Luxord]

Oh duh.
I'm fucking stupid.

[X Luxord]

Time to shake things the fuck up
VOTE: Xaldin

[X Luxord]

Lets make a xaldin counterwagon!!!
Competing wagons competing wagons competing wagons!
If Xaldin is scum make him and his partner sweat idk if half empty jars sweat but yeah guy aint done nothing ever except drop results and now we're gonna make him pay for that by counterwagoning him!!!

[X Luxord]

Why are you just saying who you don't want to lynch instead of who you want to actually lynch?
If you still think Axel is scum you could be pushing him right now instead of just being a lurksack.

[X Luxord]

I could vote for Demyx if that would make the Xaldin wagon more appealing?

[X Luxord]

Flipped Town

inscrutable roleblocker
evolving protector: Bodyguard > Doc > Jailkeeper > Elite Bodyguard
confirmed town

Flipped Scum

rolecopper

Unflipped

loud

watcher

reflexive roleblocker

neighborizing gambler

night-skipper

descaling tracker

vig bomb thing

neighborizing

cop???
conditional doublevoter bulletproof
?????

Underlined parts are confirmed to some degree.

In terms of general thoughts rolewise, I think a tracker that can hit 4-3-2-1 people and a rolestopper rolecop is probably overkill for giving scum information with what the rest of the claims are unless the role that goes along with them is especially shit.
Xig's role doesn't really make sense with Vexen's.
If there's two kills tonight Saix is borderline conftown in my books.
(I'm kind of like.. 50/50 on whether Roxas is fakeclaiming regardless of whether they're town or scum. Lol)
Probably need more role information to start parsing any part of the setup in that way. I also don't particularly trust what I generally tend to take away from role analysis but I don't really know what else to do right now.
Might try to dive Vexen again I guess. See how he voted and all that jazz.

Spoiler: Roles with my readleans

Unflipped

loud

watcher

reflexive roleblocker

neighborizing gambler

night-skipper

descaling tracker

vig bomb thing

neighborizing

cop???

conditional doublevoter bulletproof

?????

Really wish we could just get Zex to replace in and make it clear if they actually are a cop or not, cause if they are it'll be a lot easier to commit to just lynching Demyx and getting a move on this game.

[X Luxord]

Flipped Town

larxene - inscrutable roleblocker
lexaeus - evolving protector: Bodyguard > Doc > Jailkeeper > Elite Bodyguard
xemnas - confirmed town

Flipped Scum

rolecopper

Unflipped
demyx -

loud

watcher
xigbar -

reflexive roleblocker

luxord -

neighborizing gambler

axel -

night-skipper

xaldin -

descaling tracker

saix - vig bomb thing
zexion -

neighborizing

cop???
roxas - conditional doublevoter bulletproof
marluxia - ?????

Underlined parts are confirmed to some degree.

In terms of general thoughts rolewise, I think a tracker that can hit 4-3-2-1 people and a rolestopper rolecop is probably overkill for giving scum information with what the rest of the claims are unless the role that goes along with them is especially shit.
Xig's role doesn't really make sense with Vexen's.
If there's two kills tonight Saix is borderline conftown in my books.
(I'm kind of like.. 50/50 on whether Roxas is fakeclaiming regardless of whether they're town or scum. Lol)
Probably need more role information to start parsing any part of the setup in that way. I also don't particularly trust what I generally tend to take away from role analysis but I don't really know what else to do right now.
Might try to dive Vexen again I guess. See how he voted and all that jazz.

Spoiler: Roles with my readleans

Unflipped

demyx -

loud

watcher

xigbar -

reflexive roleblocker

luxord -

neighborizing gambler

axel -

night-skipper

xaldin -

descaling tracker

saix - vig bomb thing
zexion -

neighborizing

cop???

roxas - conditional doublevoter bulletproof

marluxia - ?????

Really wish we could just get Zex to replace in and make it clear if they actually are a cop or not, cause if they are it'll be a lot easier to commit to just lynching Demyx and getting a move on this game.

[X Luxord]

Or bang bang

[X Luxord]

scum or nah?

[X Luxord]

nice!

[X Luxord]

why can't I roll scum in an anon game lol
it would be so much easier

[X Luxord]

Saix you are my fucking hero.

[X Luxord]

Axel hopefully is about to be either guiltied or cleared by Zexion.

I have good news and bad news.

[X Luxord]

I'm going to somewhat respect that previousXig was right about Marluxia and my gut somewhat agrees there so I'm just gonna go with it.
Saix/Xig are town.
Zex might be borderline conftown via role. Not that I really trust myself I know anything after how hard I ate shit on my mechanics thoughts via Xaldin (and I really don't know why I keep trusting things like that when I keep being wrong lol). Will let people decide for themselves when they fullclaim (which they probably should at this point along with results).

That leaves Roxas/Axel from where I'm at.
Roxas basically put the gamestate in a situation where they would consider Saix scumclaiming if he did not shoot Xaldin tonight. Albeit they did this with the caveat that we had to lynch Demyx today. I don't think it's impossible that Roxas is willing to try to take the trade of a scummate and conftown for a lynch on a town watcher that could completely fuck up what they want to do from here on out.
Axel said that Xaldin was town but never elaborated why and had a really weird waffle on him here:

I don't like how Xaldin is just twisting things because he's clearly butthurt that he couldn't use his PR but I think that still leans townsidrd rather than scum

Axel also defended Vexen in his ISO.
Axel was also previousXig's strongest scumread remaining in the game.

Probably bad form to sheep the confidence of an unflipped strongtownread, but I honestly trust previousXig more than I do my own judgment atm wrt mafia and I think what little evidence is there otherwise suggests that everyone else is probably town to some degree and Axel has been a fucking lurksack for ages.

VOTE: Axel
Baddabadda bing sorry Demyx not voting Roxas today as of right now.

[X Luxord]

I'm more saying that was what Roxas was pushing as the narrative, not necessarily my own thoughts on the matter.

There's no clear on Axel.
Does that reintroduce them to your pool or no?
Take a gander at some of Axel's references to Xaldin/Vexen and tell me that you feel overly comfortable with him right now.

[X Luxord]

I think coming clean about your slot's claim probably clears up a lot of potential issues with the rolepool.
Not sure if claiming your result on Marluxia is a good call right now though.
I wish you'd targeted Roxas like I'd asked.
:c

[X Luxord]

I mean I think if you can accurately claim a result on Marluxia today or Roxas tomorrow you're kind of cleared?
Logic being that Vexen's role was literally also a rolecop variant and with Xaldin's role, a scumteam with all three of your roles would be overkill.

I still think Marluxia is probably town.
If you think their role looks sketchy then can maybe reassess but I feel like Axel is just right for last scum and would trample enough on the toes of his scummates that I could believe that scumteam.

[X Luxord]

You might be being paranoid.
By all means look into the clusterfuck that is my ISO if you want a reassurance of me being town. I really doubt I could fake what I've done this game as scum lol.

Why does night skipper not make sense for scum with two really strong roles?

[X Luxord]

For towncred?

[X Luxord]

I said that nightskipper makes sense with context of the other two roles being really strong informational roles that gets their feet stepped on by it.
Scum has to choose whether to use the nightskip for towncred and neutering the strength of their other two roles.
Or if they don't they risk being rolecopped or later having to fakeclaim something to explain why they didn't use said role.

P-Edit: Fucking jesus christ guys read Axel's ISO.

[X Luxord]

"I don't fakeclaim unless it's masons".

[X Luxord]

You could do me a favor and vote Axel instead of agonizing over your claiming history when it doesn't matter at all.

[X Luxord]

You fine.
Other people have done it. Easy mistake to make.

You can redeem yourself by helping me murderkill scumAxel and avenge the death of our glorious semi-apathetic leader Xemnas the great and powerful.

[X Luxord]

Wait what? You can target people?

[X Luxord]

Oh it must have been Xaldin then?

[X Luxord]

What was the n2 result

[X Luxord]

....

[X Luxord]

Is that a scumslip? :/

[X Luxord]

Xig didn't target anyone N1.
I tracked them.

Are you telling me that Xig submitted that action N1 and it went through?

[X Luxord]

I want an answer right now Xig. I know you're on. Did you get a no results PM from N1, yes or no?

[X Luxord]

Okay. There was a nightskip on N1, which would have made that result impossible. I didn't want you to have time to look back if you were scum and figure things out if so. Guessing the Day One must have come from him replying to the Day One PM.

Not actually a tracker.

[X Luxord]

When you lynch me (it's not an IF anymore), he goes back on your suspect pile. Fair?

Why?
Convince me why Marluxia is in need of a resort if you are town.

[X Luxord]

Okay Axel, next question, let's say we lynch Marluxia today and they flip town. What does that do to your reads? Or are you just so convinced that it's Marluxia that you're accepting being lynched and not thinking about the game anymore if you're wrong?

[X Luxord]

Saix if you want Roxas, you should be dropping some kind of case. Otherwise you're dragging this game out for basically no reason. The consensus is going to be on Axel unless he starts deciding to play the game and acting town or if someone (Ie: you) makes a case on someone that actually convinces people that they look worse than Axel. Axel has garbage interactions with Vexen/Xaldin. I'm willing to pull them up if you really need me to/if you aren't willing to just cntrl-f and see what everyone else has already seen. Axel's play since we started railroading scum has been very demotivated. He's a really good fit for last scum. If you really think we shouldn't be going for it, you need to put the legwork in.

[X Luxord]

You could help move things along by voting for Axel then? Like, if the guy isn't going to respond to pressure and we're not going to get a case elsewhere, what's the point in wasting time? Can get Zexion's claim on what Marluxia's rolename is even though I think he's also pretty clearly town, but then there really isn't any reason to drag this out any longer than we have already. There's 125 pages. I have like 4 townreads not including myself in a 7 player game, one townlean and a scumread. If I'm going to seriously reassess it's going to be after Axel is dead at this point.

[X Luxord]

K. As soon as we have that we should be lynching though, short of Axel deciding to start providing some serious content. I'm tired of dragging cycles on in mafia.

[X Luxord]

Pretty sure Zexion confirmed it already.

If not here then in the PT from last night. The wording was "Night Skipper" and that's it.

[X Luxord]

Marluxia doesn't really make sense to me as scum?
Can the people voting him just take 30 minutes out of their day to read his ISO and tell me if they still feel like he's scum here?
The Vexen/Xaldin reads are pointlessly bussy given how subdued his performance has been. Why bus if you're just going to play lowkey and not take advantage of the cred you get from it?
Why spend so much time berating and poking people in such a borderline hostile way when it makes you so much easier to get lynched? Keep in mind that it wasn't even people that he was pushing or scum or people pushing him as scum. It comes across as way more principled, but it almost doesn't make sense to even make the effort to make those posts as scum because it just draws attention to yourself and does nothing for yourself.

I really don't feel like this is going to be a scumflip?
Given how long we've been in this game, can we maybe consider throwing a little more effort at it so we're not throwing away a nearly solved game?
Would actually be such a huge bummer if we lost this at this point.

Will say that Marluxia should use his role on me tonight to prove that it's real, given that I don't plan on using mine again anyways.

I don't really think Axel's replace-out is AI, but I'm seeing what people are saying about his role not making sense on the scumteam.
Would just be a really stupid reason to let scum go when they've had really awful interactions with other scum and have been coasting as if they're feeling defeated in a way that no one else is coming across as having.

Roxas could be playing a decent but lurky scumgame I guess.
If I really have to compromise, then I'm willing to vote Roxas. It's pretty strange that Roxas believed that Saix could be scum and be more likely to have a vigshot rather than him just having a fakeclaim and I can see them trying to push back Xaldin dying as long as possible by trying to push them as being the vigshot rather than the lynch and hoping that maybe newSaix just shoots someone else.

Not voting Marluxia if we're not even going to get a case on him.

[X Luxord]

Flipped Town

larxene - inscrutable roleblocker
lexaeus - evolving protector: Bodyguard > Doc > Jailkeeper > Elite Bodyguard
xemnas - confirmed town
demyx - loud watcher

Flipped Scum

vexen - rolecopper

xaldin - deramping tracker

Unflipped
xigbar -

reflexive roleblocker

luxord -

neighborizing gambler

axel -

night-skipper

saix -

vig

bomb thing
zexion -

neighborizing rolecop

roxas - conditional doublevoter bulletproof
marluxia - 1-shot shot-vanillaizer

Underlined parts are confirmed to some degree.

n1 was skipped because axel used a 1-shot night-skip ability.
saix shot scumXaldin last night.
The only scumlynch happened because xig insisted that it happen and the latest head in the slot has been coming across as super duper town.
zexion was likely tracked by xaldin last night and is a partially confirmed rolecop in a setup with a flipped scum rolecop variant role.

general consensus for the scumpool is axel, marluxia and roxas.

[X Luxord]

Hi, I'm town.

please start towning it up if so.

[X Luxord]

what do you think you do best that makes it obvious that you're town when you're town

[X Luxord]

yup

[X Luxord]

Cause it looks like he lied in this pt.

Original Zexion lied about what their role was.
New Zexion has been generally forthcoming and straight up about what their results have been (and have been more or less confirmed as a rolecop via their result on Marluxia from last night).

[X Luxord]

Why would town need a rolecop here? Did you figure all this out already?Did you figure all this out already?

Why does scum need two rolecop roles?

what is the basis for your scum read on my replacee?

Your slot's interactions with flipped scum suck real bad and your prior incarnation was a limp sack of inactivity in a way that would make sense for Vexen/Xaldin/Axel scumteam being in an impossibly bad situation and feeling like giving up.

ok roxas isn't scum after that

Is it the quantity of Roxas's words or the quality of them that make you feel they're town?
And yes this is meant to come across as somewhat derisive.

[X Luxord]

How are we sure he is actually a rolecop?

Because they claimed an accurate result on Marluxia?

You said I was playing a lurky game (potentially scumgame) before. This game has been going on for ~81/82 days. (Almost three months.)
In that time, I have posted 239 times. (This will bring it up to 240.) Mostly content, too. An average of almost three posts a day. (A little less than Saix, significantly less than Xigbar but I could never outpost Xigbar 1.0 even if I ever wanted to, and slightly less than your slot.) And here in 3181, you're acknowledging that there's a very high quantity of words present per post. I'm not posting one-liners. I'm posting paragraphs, even walls, per post, and yet still producing that many posts.

Why did you think I would be a lurker? I've had periods of inactivity which were sitewide, during which times I posted less. Most of them, announced V/LAs even! (I said I wouldn't be around, then...fucking wasn't around.) That's true enough, but that's true of me in every game across a large section of my career not to mention is true of most mafia players in general (that being they are less active when they have shit happening in their life, thus why we even HAVE V/LAs).

But by and large I've been one of the most actively-involved players here. There was not a single time where I was around actively and not doing something, except for the times where I went into as much detail as possible as to what the troubles I was experiencing were. My play's been the antithesis of lurking: pushing hard and aggressively, except when doing so would be detrimental (the absolute last thing you should ever do is push hard when not confident and I have had a lot of confidence issues as of late), at which point instead of doing nothing I explained why I wasn't pushing hard and aggressively.

I want to hear you explain your stance/viewpoint there more.

I mean, it's kind of simple really.
You drop big groups of posts and then, as you've admitted, you're dropping off for extended periods of time.

I frankly think it's a lot easier for scum to work up their investment and then drop a shit-ton of posts in a row with fake-content in spurts.
What's really hard is trying to fake being engaged/scumhunting over an extended period of time/in real time.
I don't necessarily think it's likely that you've been avoiding the game on purpose, because I'm taking you at face value on you having had things going on.
But I think it's kind of obvious why I think that you

could

be scum with the level of engagement I've seen to this point, especially with where my head's currently at with the rest of the playerlist.

I'll try to make time to eat some of the words on Marluxia, but honestly might not be able to happen until Wednesday at this rate with what this week's looking like.
(Or at least to seriously try to digest it)

[X Luxord]

vote zexion

lal/lol

nope.

[X Luxord]

Yeah gj everyone we did it

[X Luxord]

Chainlynch Axel and Roxas pls and ty.
I really don't care if we lose outside that pool.

[X Luxord]

I'm town

shocker am i right guys
harharharhar

[X Luxord]

VOTE: Roxas

[X Luxord]

It's funny because after we Lynch Roxas we either win or Lynch you.
That's why it's funny.
Do you get it?

[X Luxord]

VOTE: Roxas

Care to share what the role of the lynched for today is?