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[Sergtacos]

I got all my Q+ quotes messed up, guess i'll spam. Sorry guys.

[havingfitz]

Thor...what about Taco's vote on Skitter D2 do you have issue with? I just partially ISO'd Taco with an eye on his skitter comments and he seemed to suspect skitter a good portion of D2 prior to voting him.

Also...I looked in the archives to see what sort of roles might be associated with *-night Gunsmiths and of the four examples (for town) that I saw in the archives...three had more than one scum PR and the lone example that had only one scum PR had much stronger town than we have (claimed).

Point is...I have my doubts on the Toranga slot but I feel that will sort itself out tonight. I believe Mulch is a Fruit Vendor so the only thing is his alignment. As much as I hate to say it...I don't scum having two PRs against a gunsmith/cop/and tracker and have one of those PR's be a fruit vendor.

UNVOTE: pfffffffft

I have my doubts on the Toranga slot but I feel that will sort itself out tonight. I could see scum having an alt-night PR to the gunsmith. Not interested in Tor today though.

I believe the Whymafia miller claim so no interest in a CheekyTeeky wagon.

So no interest in CheekyTeeky, Thor (vca), Mulch (weakass pr), Tor (night 3 sorted).

I'm leaning town on Tacos for vca and pending further discussion with Thor.

Leaning town on Chip for excellent cross bussing between the two (Chip and Skitter) if they are partners.

That leaves me with Porkens and Human. Both off the Skittles D2 lynch (though Human flirted with meaningless votes a few times).

I think it's back to Porkens for me. All over the place and simply willing to vote anyone in half the player list.

VOTE: Porkens

[Sergtacos]

1. Those two are just links (one of them are even on-going) with no decisive suggestion that your meta-analysis of him is definite.
2. Can't see a town angle where it's easy it is for you to be convinced of him as someone who doesn't use gambits. Gambits are supposed to be occasional after all.

Finally

3. Meta is garbage anyway.

This Miller is scum or it's a scum-helping role, regardless of alignment. We should lynch it.

Meta is garbage! Playstyles switch, people can claim that something is someone's meta, and new players with no experience to that someone will not gather accurate results—but will likely get conf-biased opinions because there's already a suggestion. Anyway, let's not turn this into a discussion of meta. Build that wagon now—Respond to my posts if you do not want to vote WhyMafia.

Meta is unreliable. Instead, let's do what's logical for this game and what we think is true. I don't believe in the Miller claim, and I'm inclined to believe that it's beneficial for town to lynch WhyMafia even if the claim rings true.

Only scum benefits from tunnel vision and only scum benefits from lynching a town player.

The assumption that this is a tunnel vision is wrong. This is a calculated vote that I'm willing to vote while looking around the wagon.

On that subject, scum benefits strongly from lynching the miller d1, and defending that slot for 'pocketing' and 'town cred' is literally villa siding play.

I don't agree with any of this. Scum benefits strongly from retaining the miller D1 because it will throw off investigative roles and will cast a reasonable doubt to WhyMafia's slot, if town. Instead, I expect the mafia to turn on WhyMafia near LyLo or at LyLo. But everything about it will be WIFOM then. If we lynch WhyMafia now, we gain information plus we can discuss whatevs it is that happened around his lynch. This is the best way to win this.

And then I'm confused by the second part. It seems weird considering the first part. It's like he wants to push me, be wants to seem flexible for town cred. Then same with the thing with the invest. I claimed so it doesn't throw off the invest. How will it throw it off? Seems like a lazy way to justify a lynch. Then so what if it doesn't confirm me? Nobody is fully confirmed until their flip, why does it apply to me instead of a VT that doesn't get invested.

Not flexible. Will almost always try to lynch you today.

It will throw off the invest because he will not benefit from an unconfirmable slot that has not flipped yet—but the scum will.

Then so what if it doesn't confirm me? Nobody is fully confirmed until their flip, why does it apply to me instead of a VT that doesn't get invested.

Because you'll be a black hole with all the reasonable shade you have around you.

Yes. And also in the game, I was in with him when he was town and I was scum. If you can't follow his logic, it's NAI.

Meta is garbage, anyway. In as much as it's unreliable. You don't conclude just because of meta. But it's still important information.

"I will let other people see for themselves who comes out looking better." - Mulch

^^Scummy. Every time I hear this, it's always scum.

This is why reads by association when there's no meta or flips backing it sucks. I can always spin something so that you guys are associated. Like now—OOOH CHIP BUTTY CAN BE TORANAGA'S PARTNER. HE'S BUSSING HIM AND ASSOCIATING ME WITH HIM SO THAT HE CAN SET UP LYNCHES THAT WILL EARN A WIN FOR HIS TEAM. See what I mean here? If you want to read me, read me as I am.

Meta me.

Then read my recent town game, Tora.

So in summary, "META IS SHIT META IS BAD FUCK METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" many posts later "META ME BITCH META MEEEEE!!!!!!"

More post of how Monkey is scum is to come.

[Sergtacos]

1. Those two are just links (one of them are even on-going) with no decisive suggestion that your meta-analysis of him is definite.
2. Can't see a town angle where it's easy it is for you to be convinced of him as someone who doesn't use gambits. Gambits are supposed to be occasional after all.

Finally

3. Meta is garbage anyway.

This Miller is scum or it's a scum-helping role, regardless of alignment. We should lynch it.

Meta is garbage! Playstyles switch, people can claim that something is someone's meta, and new players with no experience to that someone will not gather accurate results—but will likely get conf-biased opinions because there's already a suggestion. Anyway, let's not turn this into a discussion of meta. Build that wagon now—Respond to my posts if you do not want to vote WhyMafia.

Meta is unreliable. Instead, let's do what's logical for this game and what we think is true. I don't believe in the Miller claim, and I'm inclined to believe that it's beneficial for town to lynch WhyMafia even if the claim rings true.

Only scum benefits from tunnel vision and only scum benefits from lynching a town player.

The assumption that this is a tunnel vision is wrong. This is a calculated vote that I'm willing to vote while looking around the wagon.

On that subject, scum benefits strongly from lynching the miller d1, and defending that slot for 'pocketing' and 'town cred' is literally villa siding play.

I don't agree with any of this. Scum benefits strongly from retaining the miller D1 because it will throw off investigative roles and will cast a reasonable doubt to WhyMafia's slot, if town. Instead, I expect the mafia to turn on WhyMafia near LyLo or at LyLo. But everything about it will be WIFOM then. If we lynch WhyMafia now, we gain information plus we can discuss whatevs it is that happened around his lynch. This is the best way to win this.

And then I'm confused by the second part. It seems weird considering the first part. It's like he wants to push me, be wants to seem flexible for town cred. Then same with the thing with the invest. I claimed so it doesn't throw off the invest. How will it throw it off? Seems like a lazy way to justify a lynch. Then so what if it doesn't confirm me? Nobody is fully confirmed until their flip, why does it apply to me instead of a VT that doesn't get invested.

Not flexible. Will almost always try to lynch you today.

It will throw off the invest because he will not benefit from an unconfirmable slot that has not flipped yet—but the scum will.

Then so what if it doesn't confirm me? Nobody is fully confirmed until their flip, why does it apply to me instead of a VT that doesn't get invested.

Because you'll be a black hole with all the reasonable shade you have around you.

Yes. And also in the game, I was in with him when he was town and I was scum. If you can't follow his logic, it's NAI.

Meta is garbage, anyway. In as much as it's unreliable. You don't conclude just because of meta. But it's still important information.

"I will let other people see for themselves who comes out looking better." - Mulch

^^Scummy. Every time I hear this, it's always scum.

This is why reads by association when there's no meta or flips backing it sucks. I can always spin something so that you guys are associated. Like now—OOOH CHIP BUTTY CAN BE TORANAGA'S PARTNER. HE'S BUSSING HIM AND ASSOCIATING ME WITH HIM SO THAT HE CAN SET UP LYNCHES THAT WILL EARN A WIN FOR HIS TEAM. See what I mean here? If you want to read me, read me as I am.

Meta me.

Then read my recent town game, Tora.

So in summary, "META IS SHIT META IS BAD FUCK METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" many posts later "META ME BITCH META MEEEEE!!!!!!"

More post of how Monkey is scum is to come.

[Sergtacos]

Mulch, are you just voting Sergtacos to get him off your wagon? Or do you think he's scum?

I have seen a lot of friendly dialog between Monkey and Mulch.

#1

[Sergtacos]

So how would that mix well with a Miller? You claimed that it explains the Miller role and that you think it points to the conclusion that he's town. How could it be?

I'll sort Sergtacos later when I'm done figuring out what to do with Havo. For now, it's enough that if Havo is scum—Mulch is town, WhyMafia is probably town. We should lynch in this fashion:

D2:
Havo alive ---> Havo reveals investigation results for someone else. Lynch Havo. Havo flips cop, we base our lynch for who to vote next based on information and analysis.
Havo alive ---> Havo "reveals" investigation results for someone else. Lynch Havo. Havo flips scum, Mulch is town, WhyMafia is town. We analyze who to vote for next.
Havo dead, Havo flips cop ---> We analyze who to vote for next.

So scum has extra incentive to kill Havo if he's cop because we're likely to confirm and narrow down then.

Oh and I've seen town players concede that longer days = scum advantage, so Mulch might be wrong to suggest that 48 hours in the game, it's not a scum-claim.

IF HAVO IS SCUM, MULCH WILL BE TOWN!

So monkey, Havo was a cop, and you still town read Mulch.

You now have 3 SP- Scum points.

[Sergtacos]

Havo is a lost cause and let's not clutter the thread when he's so easy to sort D2. Tonight, I'll sort Sergtacos and Mulch and anyone else I can scoop and vote someone else.

"Learn how to use quotes FFS."

Ah. Don't tell me how to play this game.

"Don't worry guys, i'll sort Mulch even thought I Town Read him and forever will do so."

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yep. That's better. More confident with my Sergtacos read now. I'm not lynching Serg, Thor. You have to do Porkens or Havingfitz. I think you're wrong about Serg.

VOTE: Porkens. I'll vote the waffler.

[Sergtacos]

Mulch, don't tunnel Havo. We've obviously got the scum content from him. I think that it's safer to sort him at D2. Go prod someone else. I'm reading the thread right now and I'm curious to what Blue has to say about everything so far.

Basically here is what I'm thinking what Monkey meant. "Mulch, we got a hardclaim from him and he's a cop. We will kill him during the night, so lets lynch an innocent."

Because if you think you have busted scum, what do you do? YOU FUCKING VOTE THE FUCKER. Why try to let a scum survive another day? Oh or maybe because Havo hardclaimed and you got worried you might get lynched because of that which is why you said this.

[Sergtacos]

Yep. That's better. More confident with my Sergtacos read now. I'm not lynching Serg, Thor. You have to do Porkens or Havingfitz. I think you're wrong about Serg.

VOTE: Porkens. I'll vote the waffler.

I have you in my strong scum list, Monkey. Convince me why I should remove you from it. By reading through your ISO, you had a lot of friendly dialog with Mulch, who happens to be my strongest scum read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't give a crap about you removing me from your "strong scum list". First of all, they're bad reasons. That's kind of the point. Second, if I'm town, someone else will scum about and everyone will figure that out instead. You have ZERO power to sway the town into lynching me. I have no trouble with a push towards me right now because I'm not LYLO-worthy. I'm not a PR. If I flip, people can see what happened to my wagon. If that happens earlier, the better. Also, associating me with Mulch without him flipping is the opposite of top-notch scumhunting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Would you like me to go ahead and tell you why your reasons are bad? I think you know deep down you conf-biased the fuck out of me because you're just OMGUSing me. You turned everything into a narrative that I'm town. You have no method of knowing who's scum whatsoever. I will be scum because I called you scum regardless of how actually townie I have been.

[Sergtacos]

I'm still gonna repost your quotes and show how scummy you are. How are you actually townie? Show me, prove me wrong. You're a little pissy that I'm trying to get a wagon going on you. Why so pissy if you say my reasons are bad? Chill.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And that's kind of the point. I was sorting you. I had no meta that can back up why you're scum.

Also, about the "meta sucks". I already told everyone here that meta is unreliable and we shouldn't lynch people because of that. Only when you're trying to sort out people. It's a tool but it's not what should guide your decisions. But if Toranaga operates at that level, I'm gonna have to communicate at a level that he can understand me. So he can sort me better. I have no idea how I play as town, but I have no doubt that if I'm town, he'll see the difference in my meta since he does that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not pissy tho

[humaneatingmonkey]

There are a lot of edits that need to be made in my above posts but you'll figure it out. I'm writing on my mobile.

[Sergtacos]

And thats how you do a reaction test monkey. Welcome to my lean town read.

[Sergtacos]

UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

No just go ahead and continue posting. Just don't expect me to Q+ every point line-by-line and 1v1 you into submission.

Last post. sorry if it was spammy

[Sergtacos]

I don't think Porkens is scum tho. I have a theory and I don't wanna mention it.

[Porkens]

Just tell who to kill game, Jesus cheist

[Sergtacos]

what?

[humaneatingmonkey]

So Porkens, who aren't you willing to lynch?

[havingfitz]

I don't think Porkens is scum tho. I have a theory and I don't wanna mention it.

Why not share thoughts that might move others to agree with your Porkens read?

[Toranaga]

I don't think Porkens is scum tho. I have a theory and I don't wanna mention it.

yeah. don't mention it.