Mini Normal 1952: Dragon's Dance [OVER - PERFECT SCUM WIN]

[Lil Uzi Vert]

tchill is reading like Vi to me. I don't see a scum motivation for this latest vote hop specifically.

EPs points are good, but while the pattern of behavior could be consistent with scum trying to active lurk:

a) The behavior could also be consistent with town who legitimately doesnt quite know what is going on.
b) I think scum active lurking is behavior that typically doesn't happen in RVS
i) scum tend to "hide in plain sight" in the later stages of the game, not the RVS.
ii) I think scum are more likely to just lurk, rather than active lurk.

I'm not like town reading them or anything, but I think we have bigger fish to fry. Like LQ.

Can we kill it with fire?

I’ve played with tchill a few times now and this feels a bit different from him just being a VI. Not doing anything is NAI but I know too many players believe it is AI. I voted him however for WMFM after pointing out that the reasoning for Errant voting him applies to two people who hadn’t even checked in.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Lalendra

This needs rope.

Could you walk me through this? Was it her read list?

Licketey quickety is my strongest and only town read atm.

why not me?

ur obv scum tchill

obv because im easy to town read, and if ur "Struggling to read me" its cuz u scum. u know it urself down inside tchill.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Only scummy things I've seen so far is errant pushing me for lack of content when most players were around 5ish posts.

Low post count doesn’t mean lack of content.

Do you think Errant is forcing having a strong read on you or something?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like TSQ’s beef with LQ is that he either should’ve picked up that he wasn’t serious about Boon or that he should’ve found his reasoning for voting Boon terrible. If so, I can’t buy the former based on LQ’s breakdown of events and TSQ at one point wanting to talk about something more than Boon which shows TSQ was invested to a degree.

The latter I can buy though as I didn’t get what joke TSQ was referring to at all and one of LQ’s reasons for voting Boon is bordering on policy lynching. However, I don’t buy that this was an elaborate reaction test from TSQ. In other words, I’m stuck there.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

TSQ, what do you think of LQ voting Lalendra?

[Errantparabola]

lol i talked myself back into it.

I know its a really stupid thing to be falling for if you're scum, but this deliberation into revote seems pretty transparently towny

tchill is reading like Vi to me

*insert quip here*

Notice how literally nobody voted errant.

I don't think this is really telling. You started a counterwagon but didn't provide any legitimate investment or pressure (which is okay but it's not like you should be expecting results) and you provided a justification that people didn't agree with.

--

VOTE: TheQuo
While I could vote one of the low-content ppl right now, I think it's fine to give them a little more time and space, so I'll float here for a bit.

Here's the hard and fast:
LQ/Lal/Chill I have some concrete reasons to feel are not scum at this point in time
LUV feels incredibly not-scum but IDK if I'm underestimating his scum game, and I might evaluate more closely in the future. We'll say town for now.
IDK about Havo but I would like an answer to 2) in 69 (it's not that important, but still)

schadd-- What I'm reading might just be a facet of his GD posting style. But I am wary of early townreads that seem confident ("LQ/ep townblock"). I think scum easily put forward that (and often do) in early game as a non-harmful way to seem engaged and productive. In the end, that's not really a reason to be scumreading someone.

Shea, I think your LQ push is questionable.

[Thestatusquo]

What part of it do you not like? What do you think the motivations for the actions I am attacking him for are likely to be?

[Thestatusquo]

TSQ, what do you think of LQ voting Lalendra?

I don't have an opinion on it yet. I.e. I see town and scum motivations for it that are equally likely.

[Carcalilly]

Vote Count 1.3

Boonskiies(1)

: Havo

Thestatusquo(2)

: schadd_, Errantparabola

Errantparabola(2)

: Sergtacos, Tchill13

Lalendra(1)

: LicketyQuickety

Tchill13(2)

: acidphoenix, Lil Uzi Vert

LicketyQuickety(1)

: Thestatusquo

Nobody(4)

: Boonskiies, Lalendra, mumble, Egg

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-10-22 15:00:00)

[Tchill13]

Only scummy things I've seen so far is errant pushing me for lack of content when most players were around 5ish posts.

Low post count doesn’t mean lack of content.

Do you think Errant is forcing having a strong read on you or something?

I just felt like errant brought up an issue that could lead to a lot of momentum on my wagon that could then be pushed to a Lynch.

[Thestatusquo]

Why is that scummy if they legitimately think you're scum?

[Tchill13]

The action isn't scummy it's the timing of it. Pushing someone for lack of content as soon as the game starts? Are you serious? That's why I questioned it because it's a reasonable excuse and the TIMING. Nothing better for scum to find a reasonable excuse to lead a mislynch on someone.

[Tchill13]

That's a lot harder to do in later day phases than earlier ones and he pushed that pretty quick.

[Thestatusquo]

*vi read intensifies*

[Egg]

Reading up now...

Shea, have you played with boon before?

Lickety,

what were you hoping to accomplish by outting boon's claim as a possible reaction test before most people had reacted?

<- EP beat me to it. I'm keeping it here though because I didn't like it. In case it's not obvious, the reply didn't satisfy me either.

EP, what felt town about lickety's first few posts to you?

Lalendra, you called claiming immediately a "tactic". Can you explain what the goal of doing so would be?

Acid, why is lickety probably town? Any reads other than lickety and tchill?

phone battery is gonna die. will pick up at post 64 from a computer semi shortly.

[Thestatusquo]

I suspect I haven't played with anyone in this game before.

[Tchill13]

Licketey is being pretty transparent. While I don't agree with the pushes it looks like they're coming from town going in the wrong direction

[Tchill13]

*vi read intensifies*

You can call me what you want on day 1 but it's good to know I've met another elitist on this site.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Uzi @tsq

Not on board with the LQ lunch because I'm also VT and was considering claiming it straight out the gate.

Can someone elaborate on the policy lynch? I must be missing something.

First, she says lunch, which means she has played before, and its not typical of people on this site to say Lunch as much as elsewhere on the net. Second, She says she is not on board with my lynch... because she was also considering claiming VT straight out of the gate... Wut? Like I feel she is trying to say its Townie of me to point out that it could be a reaction test, but instead she goes into full detail of giving too much info about her role for zero reason. I can see how VT might want to claim to survive longer, but as I already stated, the fact someone else already claimed VT it takes away any ability to use "I'm VT" as a reaction test. So given that she HAS played before (assuming she played a newbie game here) Its likely she already knows not to just claim your role for zero reason. That's why I posited that either she is just a poor player or is Scum in so many words.

Not on board with the LQ lunch because I'm also VT and was considering claiming it straight out the gate.

Can someone elaborate on the policy lynch? I must be missing something.

Why were you considering claiming right away?

A policy lynch is the act of lynching a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because their bad play will hurt the town later on.

Thank you for the explanation.

I was considering claiming right away because I've never used this tactic before and I wanted to see how it played out. I'm still fairly new to mafia. So, it was interesting to me that someone else had the exact same idea.

Here its like... AGAIN, why claim here when it serves zero purpose? I feel like she is kinda playing up the newb card at this point. She hasn't indicated that she knows what she is doing and is going to pull some gosu fake out shit that she drops on us later.

Okay I'm a fan of readlists, especially this early in the game, so here goes.

Spoiler:

LilUziVert has generated some good discussion. No real issues there but I don't have a read as of yet.
Boon claimed VT with first post and hasn't said much since. I don't get a scum read because that would be a pretty ballsy move out of the gate for scum to pull and draw way too much attention to themselves. Probably town.
Tchill said that claims don't generate discussion in RVS, which I don't necessarily agree with; I feel like claims are one of the easiest and quickest ways to get OUT of RVS. I'm not getting a huge scum vibe yet but haven't done a meta dive either, and he seems like an experienced player.
LQ pointed out that TSQ vs Uzi is probably not S v S, which I agree with. LQ has also made some good points, despite claiming stupidity earlier. I'm thinking town but not sure.
Tacos voted Havo for voting Boon, then jumped on schadd policy wagon on TSQ, then voted tchill without explanation. I'd like to see some actual content at some point.
Schadd policy voted TSQ, and said "Acid is a little yikes," but did not elaborate. Again, would like to see more content.
TSQ is probably not scum for reasons listed earlier, plus he is generating discussion, so I am leaning town on that one.
Havo's posts are aggressively pro-town, which is a risky stance for scum to take, but this player also sounds very experienced. I'm going to say town unless something makes me think otherwise.
EP wants to do a meta-dive on two players (me and LQ) even though he thinks we're town, which is a little odd but not unheard of to confirm reads, I'm not getting a scum vibe from that. Voted tchill without any explanation at first, but had some good analysis later.

I don't have any super strong reads yet but currently, Tacos and Schadd are probably my biggest scumreads simply because they have posted without actually saying or contributing much. Players who have more experience with them (or just in general) are welcome to tell me if they think I'm wrong on those.

Mumble and Egg, where you at?

P-Edit: Not a bad vote from TSQ for LQ. I am open to jumping on this wagon, depending on where it goes.

"I'm a fan of reads list, especially this early" This is not something a newb should be saying... like.. at all.

And then she basically says Boon is Town because he did something she has never tried out and thinks its too ballsy for Scum to do. Way to give yourself a Town read???

In her read on Chill, she is basically saying she disagrees with someone who is much more experienced than herself. Then she says she hasn't done a meta dive on Chill yet. OK, but like, what are you waiting for?

Their read on me... "I'm thinking Town, but not sure" Does it get any more hedgy than that?

Her Toco read is the only one that seems acceptable and its not even a stance on them.

There read on shadd seems a bit IIoA as per my definition. It gives facts without a conclusion in other words. Its smells fishy to me.

tsq... Take not of the "on that one" This looks like it could be a kind of coverup based on word choice. Not to mention that generating content is what you are

supposed

to do as either alignment.

How the absolute FUCK is playing as aggressively Pro-Town risky? Like that is what you are supposed to do to get a Town read, right?

Their read on EP is.. "I'm a newb but I know what EP is doing even tho it doesn't make sense is perfectly fine"

She wraps up her reads saying "The people that have contributed a goose egg are my Scum reads" when earlier she said she had no read on those players.

Then in her P-Edit she does exactly what tsq accused me of doing, but does tsq even look at Lalenda? Why not? Because they are a newb so all is forgiven?

VOTE: tchill
also >explanations with your readslist

unexplained readslist = goat

I don't really have any stronger reasoning at the moment, hence why there isn't much. The readslist was mostly me thinking out loud and hoping that it would generate some discussion.

Why did you vote tchill?

Then she takes Acids harmless comment as an accusation and finds the need to defend themselves. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself against that?

VOTE: Lalendra

This needs rope.

Can you elaborate on what this means? I'm also confused about why you voted me and then continue your dialogue with TSQ. If you think what he is doing is scummy/bad play, why wouldn't you vote him instead? (Not saying I think you should, I'm not getting a strong scumlean on him; just trying to understand your thought process here.)

Havo - Are you serious about Mumble? If so, why not vote him?

LAMIST.

[Errantparabola]

What part of it do you not like? What do you think the motivations for the actions I am attacking him for are likely to be?

I don't think your LQ case is founded on solid ground at all--
(here I typed out a paragraph about why your case was bad but when I went back and read it, it seemed more and more like just a playstyle difference and now i'm not very sure)

But to summarize what I was going to say:
LQ obviously does weird stuff and I think thats something you have to take into account. Town is illogical/bad/dumb all the time. The only difference I see between Tchill's unjustified vote that resulted in you VI-reading him and LQ's unjustified vote that resulted in you scumreading him, to me, looks like a real reach to find motives that I strongly believe comes from scum a lot less than you think it does

(or I could just be overestimating LQ and he's actually terrible at scum?!)

As for why I townread LQ:
1) He's dominating the game in a way that makes me really feel like he's town without a filter.
2) I know meta is very unreliable especially with such a small sample size but I use it to ground my early game reads-- looking at his town and scum games, I get the sense that he tries to be helpful more when he's scum, trying to take a strong supporting role with questions and pushes. (This is very common for people when they play scum I feel). There's none of that here.
3) Some of his posts, like 26, are something I can't really imagine coming from scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

What part of it do you not like? What do you think the motivations for the actions I am attacking him for are likely to be?

I don't think your LQ case is founded on solid ground at all--
(here I typed out a paragraph about why your case was bad but when I went back and read it, it seemed more and more like just a playstyle difference and now i'm not very sure)

But to summarize what I was going to say:
LQ obviously does weird stuff and I think thats something you have to take into account. Town is illogical/bad/dumb all the time. The only difference I see between Tchill's unjustified vote that resulted in you VI-reading him and LQ's unjustified vote that resulted in you scumreading him, to me, looks like a real reach to find motives that I strongly believe comes from scum a lot less than you think it does

(or I could just be overestimating LQ and he's actually terrible at scum?!)

As for why I townread LQ:
1) He's dominating the game in a way that makes me really feel like he's town without a filter.
2) I know meta is very unreliable especially with such a small sample size but I use it to ground my early game reads-- looking at his town and scum games, I get the sense that he tries to be helpful more when he's scum, trying to take a strong supporting role with questions and pushes. (This is very common for people when they play scum I feel). There's none of that here.
3) Some of his posts, like 26, are something I can't really imagine coming from scum.

Why are you arguing why I am Town and not why tsq is Scum?

[Errantparabola]

Why are you arguing why I am Town and not why tsq is Scum?

cause Egg asked me

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

OK I've seen enough of errant to feel like he's town for now.

[acidphoenix]

everyone who's posted on this page except maybe tsq is prob town

[acidphoenix]

oh maybe luv too missed him

also carca is lock scum but that's irrelevant