Micro 746: The Deco Murders - Game Over!

[Vijarada]

I self-voted purely because it never fails to get the game out of RVS. It used to be there was always some person who would start jumping on anyone who didn't vote in RVS but now self-voting is what does the trick.

and I think Inferno called me "obviously no newbie?". yeah don't trust my joindate lmao. this is like my fifth or sixth mafia game under this account and I played ten or so three years ago. i uh...hate mafia and love reality television tbh.

[Vijarada]

my current vote is for VOTE: Raya36 pretty scummy imho.

[TywinL]

my current vote is for VOTE: Raya36 pretty scummy imho.

Interesting, why? I am currently leaning town on Raya.

[Inferno390]

1. You never asked me if Vij could do it as town. You just jumped on my case and said that "I was scum."
WTF?? Yes I did. Go read my posts again.

2. Raya did not "literally debunk" that by saying that it's actually NAI. She said, as you quoted your self, "I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before." He did not say is was or was not NAI. Only you. In fact, He said that I might have a point. So stop shoving words down Ray's throat.
"I have seen town do similar things to this before" = NAI. If either alignment can do it. It makes absolutely no sense to say something is scummy whereas town could do it too.

3. You're pitching a fit that I said "there is definitely more evidence needed," yet you say that I won't even consider that "Vij could also do it as town." Which is exactly what "it's way too early to tell what the reasoning behind Vij's self-vote" means (Post #42 if you want to check that)
I have already told you, there is no reasoning. It's just RVS. You are trying to jump to conclusions but there is absolutely nothing to conclude.

4. You have just said that I was scum (again, you want to check, post #34).
I outlined why I think you are scum in post 47.

5. I have never actually said that Vij was scum. I fact, I haven't even voted for her as scum yet. I just FoS. So you're making a giant fuss over an FoS, which literally means, "I think you're suspicious, but I don't want to move my vote to you yet."
You said that it was scummy, which was good enough for me. But whatever.

6. Why the heck are you defending him? Vij on his part has voted for himself and then lurked this entire time, refusing to defend himself, and all you've done is defend him to attack me. Classic Chainsaw defense. So, if it turns out that Vij is scum, you make for a pretty swell looking scumbuddy.
I am not defending him. I am questioning your logic and I do not like your reasons. Also lmao, glad that I'm the scumbuddy now. Notice how I give zero fucks about Not_Mafia voting Vij?

1. You'll tell me that you did it, but then not quote a post. And I can't find any post that asks that question.
2. No, that means that there's no way to conclude if he is actually scum or not. Not that what he did isn't scummy, which is all that I've been saying this entire time. Just because town players can do it too doesn't mean that it's not scummy. Town can lie about their role in a gambit attempt too, but that doesn't make THAT any less scummy.
3. I haven't jumped to a conclusion. I just said the post looked scummy. Hence the FoS instead of a vote change.
4. What you said in post #47 is not only hard to read, but can be summarized as "I don't like that you FoS'ed Vij, and I don't like the fact that you're agreeing that he can't be definitely defined as scum, so therefore, you're scum." So no, you have not given a reason for as to why I'm scum, you just don't like my arguments for why his post is scummy.
5. It does look scummy. But so does attacking me with no real reason, acidphoenix jumping on Gorny's wagon, or plenty of other things that have happened so far in this game or will happen in this game. And again, you just took me saying it looked scummy as an excuse to attack me, which looks a whole lot scummier than me using FoS to say I don't think that what Vij is doing is in town's best interests, so that looks scummy to me. You have no real reason to be attacking me.
6. So you're telling me that you don't care about Not_Mafia's vote, but you sure as heck are all over me for my FoS. That makes less sense than using the Chainsaw Defense! And all you've done is attack me by saying that there is no real evidence for Vij's post to look even remotely scummy. That's called defending. The definition of defense is literally "an argument in support or justification" (Merriam Webster, definition 3b). So yes, you have done nothing but defend his self-vote and then used that as a base to attack me.

In light of all of this, you now look even scummier than Vij! Good job! You've earned yourself a wagon!
UNVOTE:
VOTE: TywinL

[Inferno390]

I self-voted purely because it never fails to get the game out of RVS. It used to be there was always some person who would start jumping on anyone who didn't vote in RVS but now self-voting is what does the trick.

and I think Inferno called me "obviously no newbie?". yeah don't trust my joindate lmao. this is like my fifth or sixth mafia game under this account and I played ten or so three years ago. i uh...hate mafia and love reality television tbh.

Well, you did a good job of it. Now TwinyL and I are at each other's throats!
But that's also not the strongest argument, and I like to err on the side of caution, so the FoS on you remains.

[Gödel]

holy crap the game hasn't been going for 24 hours yet and we are already this serious.

I also believe that a self vote is NAI. However inferno reading so much into it is a bit worrisome. How experienced are you? I know there are players that just always start of every game voting for themselves. I will re read the whole exchange again tomorrow, currently 10:30 PM here and I have been up since 5 AM and need to get up at that time again tomorrow so I will comment more on it then.

Since I asked I thought I should also volunteer, I am still a bloody newbie gaining some experience. My experience level is a bit odd though since I used to play a lot on a different site(with a different site meta though) but that was years ago. I would however still rate myself as a newbie since I haven't even played a whole newbie game on this site yet. So if I seem to know some things but then ask about something else that is very basic please don't be confused.

PEDIT - YAY i remembered correctly that some players just self vote

PEDIT#2 - I am too tiered to read these long posts, sorry inferno

[Inferno390]

holy crap the game hasn't been going for 24 hours yet and we are already this serious.

I also believe that a self vote is NAI. However inferno reading so much into it is a bit worrisome. How experienced are you? I know there are players that just always start of every game voting for themselves. I will re read the whole exchange again tomorrow, currently 10:30 PM here and I have been up since 5 AM and need to get up at that time again tomorrow so I will comment more on it then.

Since I asked I thought I should also volunteer, I am still a bloody newbie gaining some experience. My experience level is a bit odd though since I used to play a lot on a different site(with a different site meta though) but that was years ago. I would however still rate myself as a newbie since I haven't even played a whole newbie game on this site yet. So if I seem to know some things but then ask about something else that is very basic please don't be confused.

PEDIT - YAY i remembered correctly that some players just self vote

PEDIT#2 - I am too tiered to read these long posts, sorry inferno

Well, I'm a bloody newbie too, so we share a least something in common lol. But to summarize, I feel like that's a slightly scummy play, TywinL jumped all over my case for an FoS, and we've been going back and forth on whether or not I've actually called anyone scum.
On another note, I think that it's funny that I didn't really jump on Vij's case at all, just said it looked suspicious and FoS'ed it, and TywinL was the one who started the jumping.

[Inferno390]

Of course, I'M the scum, the guy who at least tried to explain his thinking, not TywinL, the guy who just changed his vote and wasn't even going to explain why until I confronted him.

[TywinL]

Lmao, I was about to reveal that I was using Inferno as a reaction test and I was lying about my scum-read on Inferno but now I actually think Inferno is scum. That OMGUS from Inferno is just unreal, but I will most more in detail later. Also lol at Inferno keeping his FoS on Vij.

p-edit: lol

[Inferno390]

Lmao, I was about to reveal that I was using Inferno as a reaction test and I was lying about my scum-read on Inferno but now I actually think Inferno is scum. That OMGUS from Inferno is just unreal, but I will most more in detail later. Also lol at Inferno keeping his FoS on Vij.

p-edit: lol

WHAT?!?

You're telling me that after all of that, I was just a "reaction test?" You were just "lying about my scum-read?"
This is quite literally the DUMBEST THING I've ever heard in Mafia. Not only are you saying that I had an OMGUS vote (which I gave because your arguments are REALLY bad, not just because), but are kindly leaving out the fact that YOUR first post about anything that I did was an OMGUS, AND you were LYING, which is incredibly hurtful to the town! If this whole thing didn't reek of scum (which it totally does), we should lynch you anyways because of LyAL policy! This "confession" actually makes you scummier than you did before! Now you just look like you're covering for yourself!

[TywinL]

1. You'll tell me that you did it, but then not quote a post. And I can't find any post that asks that question.
2. No, that means that there's no way to conclude if he is actually scum or not. Not that what he did isn't scummy, which is all that I've been saying this entire time. Just because town players can do it too doesn't mean that it's not scummy. Town can lie about their role in a gambit attempt too, but that doesn't make THAT any less scummy.
3. I haven't jumped to a conclusion. I just said the post looked scummy. Hence the FoS instead of a vote change.
4. What you said in post #47 is not only hard to read, but can be summarized as "I don't like that you FoS'ed Vij, and I don't like the fact that you're agreeing that he can't be definitely defined as scum, so therefore, you're scum." So no, you have not given a reason for as to why I'm scum, you just don't like my arguments for why his post is scummy.
5. It does look scummy. But so does attacking me with no real reason, acidphoenix jumping on Gorny's wagon, or plenty of other things that have happened so far in this game or will happen in this game. And again, you just took me saying it looked scummy as an excuse to attack me, which looks a whole lot scummier than me using FoS to say I don't think that what Vij is doing is in town's best interests, so that looks scummy to me. You have no real reason to be attacking me.
6. So you're telling me that you don't care about Not_Mafia's vote, but you sure as heck are all over me for my FoS. That makes less sense than using the Chainsaw Defense! And all you've done is attack me by saying that there is no real evidence for Vij's post to look even remotely scummy. That's called defending. The definition of defense is literally "an argument in support or justification" (Merriam Webster, definition 3b). So yes, you have done nothing but defend his self-vote and then used that as a base to attack me.

In light of all of this, you now look even scummier than Vij! Good job! You've earned yourself a wagon!
UNVOTE:
VOTE: TywinL

1. post 38, 44, 47
2. Ok, I want to you think for a second here. Why would scum vote for themselves? It's hurt their team, so it's nonsensical for scum or town to vote themselves. Stop saying it's scummy. 3 other people have said that self-voting in RVS is no big deal but you are trying to make it a big deal when you first made this post:

VOTE: Vijarada

I don't know anyone else in this game, while I know and actively dislike this bitch.

This seems pretty scummy. OMGUS voting yourself on the first day? Seems like a ploy to get a few laughs and to blend in with the town to me. Please explain your thoughts further, but

FoS

3. That's still a conclusion. Saying something is scummy is coming to a conclusion.
4. I think your argument for why Vij is scummy because I have said many times, and other players as well, that it is actually NAI. You keep trying to double down and sticking with your "scummy" conclusion. I'm trying to tell you to relax and you just aren't.
5. I am attacking for a very good reason. I did not agree with your FoS and your reasons are so bad, despite the many times where I have told you that it is actually NAI yet you don't want to let up from your Fos EVEN when Vij said he just used that to get out of RVS. And it fucking worked because of your bad reaction to that.
6. Yeah, I give zero fucks about Not_Mafia vote because it is RVS (although we are out of the RVS stage right now) and it means nothing. I am attacking your bad FoS. If someone actually made a decent case on someone, I wouldn't attack them, I would atleast ponder over it because that is called scumhunting. So tell me again how I am defending Vij by attacking just one person?

Oh boy a vote, I'm scared. Let's dance.

---

I self-voted purely because it never fails to get the game out of RVS. It used to be there was always some person who would start jumping on anyone who didn't vote in RVS but now self-voting is what does the trick.

and I think Inferno called me "obviously no newbie?". yeah don't trust my joindate lmao. this is like my fifth or sixth mafia game under this account and I played ten or so three years ago. i uh...hate mafia and love reality television tbh.

Well, you did a good job of it. Now TwinyL and I are at each other's throats!
But that's also not the strongest argument, and I like to err on the side of caution, so the FoS on you remains.

Wait so let me get this straight.... You think Vij's self-vote is unarguably scummy despite several refutations to that argument but Vij's reasoning for self-voting in RVS is "not the strongest argument". Do I have that correct?

holy crap the game hasn't been going for 24 hours yet and we are already this serious.

I also believe that a self vote is NAI. However inferno reading so much into it is a bit worrisome. How experienced are you? I know there are players that just always start of every game voting for themselves. I will re read the whole exchange again tomorrow, currently 10:30 PM here and I have been up since 5 AM and need to get up at that time again tomorrow so I will comment more on it then.

Since I asked I thought I should also volunteer, I am still a bloody newbie gaining some experience. My experience level is a bit odd though since I used to play a lot on a different site(with a different site meta though) but that was years ago. I would however still rate myself as a newbie since I haven't even played a whole newbie game on this site yet. So if I seem to know some things but then ask about something else that is very basic please don't be confused.

PEDIT - YAY i remembered correctly that some players just self vote

PEDIT#2 - I am too tiered to read these long posts, sorry inferno

Well, I'm a bloody newbie too, so we share a least something in common lol. But to summarize, I feel like that's a slightly scummy play, TywinL jumped all over my case for an FoS, and we've been going back and forth on whether or not I've actually called anyone scum.
On another note, I think that it's funny that I didn't really jump on Vij's case at all, just said it looked suspicious and FoS'ed it, and TywinL was the one who started the jumping.

Nonononono, you don't get to call me scummy because I don't like what you did. You started this whole thing.

Of course, I'M the scum, the guy who at least tried to explain his thinking, not TywinL, the guy who just changed his vote and wasn't even going to explain why until I confronted him.

Because it was a reaction test at first. I wanted to see how you would react.

Lmao, I was about to reveal that I was using Inferno as a reaction test and I was lying about my scum-read on Inferno but now I actually think Inferno is scum. That OMGUS from Inferno is just unreal, but I will most more in detail later. Also lol at Inferno keeping his FoS on Vij.

p-edit: lol

WHAT?!?

You're telling me that after all of that, I was just a "reaction test?" You were just "lying about my scum-read?"
This is quite literally the DUMBEST THING I've ever heard in Mafia. Not only are you saying that I had an OMGUS vote (which I gave because your arguments are REALLY bad, not just because), but are kindly leaving out the fact that YOUR first post about anything that I did was an OMGUS, AND you were LYING, which is incredibly hurtful to the town! If this whole thing didn't reek of scum (which it totally does), we should lynch you anyways because of LyAL policy! This "confession" actually makes you scummier than you did before! Now you just look like you're covering for yourself!

Reaction tests are dumb? I lied FOR the sake of the reaction test. Don't you think this provides information for town? You kept harping about how you wanted to pressure people, so I wanted to do it to you so I could show you what a real pressure test looks like and hope to learn more about the alignment of your slot. Also, really? Policy lynch? You realize how scummy that sounds, right? I'm covering for myself? Nah, I'm staying on top of you.

[Inferno390]

Going to take this one step at a time. 1:

^
trying way too hard.

How the fuck is self-voting in RVS is scummy? And earlier you said that it seemed pretty scummy, and now it is just "potentially" pretty scummy? And it also seems like you ignored Raya's statement that self-voting in RVS is actually NAI...in which she is correct.

It's literally RVS, chill out bro. The whole point of RVS is to get the game rolling and that's why it works everytime. I seriously do not like how you are so triggered over a self vote.

Also Raya said this and you have not responded to this:

I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before. I don't think I have enough experience playing with Vij to use meta in any way.

Like I have said, it's NAI. While your reaction to the self-vote does tell me more about your alignment and I think you are scum. There's a difference here so don't try to equate your paint of Vij being scum to me saying that you are scum.

It's literally RVS, chill out bro. The whole point of RVS is to get the game rolling and that's why it works everytime. I seriously do not like how you are so triggered over a self vote.

Also Raya said this and you have not responded to this:

I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before. I don't think I have enough experience playing with Vij to use meta in any way.

Like I have said, it's NAI. While your reaction to the self-vote does tell me more about your alignment and I think you are scum. There's a difference here so don't try to equate your paint of Vij being scum to me saying that you are scum.

What do you mean by NAI? And how is my reaction to the self-vote scummy? I've said that there is definitely more evidence needed, and I have not come out and said that Vij is scum, I've just said that his actions right now do not help the town, and that seems scummy to me.
And whenever someone confronts you about why you're attacking ME, your response is that I'm just scum. That's Argument of Repetition, which is logical fallacy. You've offered no reason for me being scum other than "I don't like your response, so therefore, you're obviously scum." So don't accuse me of painting Vij when all your doing is saying basically the same thing over and over. I've been bringing logic to my thoughts.

NAI = Non-alignment indicative. When you say something is scummy, it is fair for people to assume that you are scumreading that slot. Now you are saying that "there is definitely more evidence need" while literally saying "I have not come out and said that Vij is scum". I thought Vij was scum? You need to own your reads, but that not something that scum does, which is why I think you are scum.

Also quit saying that you have logic for Vij being scum because Raya literally debunked that by saying that it's actually NAI. Also, you STILL have not responded to my Raya quote still. I agree with her and I want you to answer why you won't even consider that Vij could also do it as town. Self-voting =/= scum.

Also again, I am not just saying " You are just scum" but rather your reaction is scummy as fuck to me. And, that's good enough for me. Along with your blatant avoiding to answer my question on why Vij couldn't do it as town.

I'm sorry, where did you ask any question in here about how he might have done it as town?

[Inferno390]

2:

ohh forgot to mention I will be V/LA from the 11th to the 16th. I will still be around just limited activity, though the 13th and the 14th I may be too busy to check in.

Good to know.

VOTE: Vijarada

I don't know anyone else in this game, while I know and actively dislike this bitch.

This seems pretty scummy. OMGUS voting yourself on the first day? Seems like a ploy to get a few laughs and to blend in with the town to me. Please explain your thoughts further, but

FoS

You quoted exactly my reasoning for why it seems scummy. Because throwing a vote at yourself looks like an attempt to blend in with town, because no one's going to take your vote seriously.

[TywinL]

Made it bold and huge.

Going to take this one step at a time. 1:

^
trying way too hard.

How the fuck is self-voting in RVS is scummy? And earlier you said that it seemed pretty scummy, and now it is just "potentially" pretty scummy?

And it also seems like you ignored Raya's statement that self-voting in RVS is actually NAI...in which she is correct.

It's literally RVS, chill out bro. The whole point of RVS is to get the game rolling and that's why it works everytime. I seriously do not like how you are so triggered over a self vote.

Also Raya said this and you have not responded to this:

I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before. I don't think I have enough experience playing with Vij to use meta in any way.

Like I have said, it's NAI. While your reaction to the self-vote does tell me more about your alignment and I think you are scum. There's a difference here so don't try to equate your paint of Vij being scum to me saying that you are scum.

It's literally RVS, chill out bro. The whole point of RVS is to get the game rolling and that's why it works everytime. I seriously do not like how you are so triggered over a self vote.

Also Raya said this and you have not responded to this:

I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before. I don't think I have enough experience playing with Vij to use meta in any way.

Like I have said, it's NAI. While your reaction to the self-vote does tell me more about your alignment and I think you are scum. There's a difference here so don't try to equate your paint of Vij being scum to me saying that you are scum.

What do you mean by NAI? And how is my reaction to the self-vote scummy? I've said that there is definitely more evidence needed, and I have not come out and said that Vij is scum, I've just said that his actions right now do not help the town, and that seems scummy to me.
And whenever someone confronts you about why you're attacking ME, your response is that I'm just scum. That's Argument of Repetition, which is logical fallacy. You've offered no reason for me being scum other than "I don't like your response, so therefore, you're obviously scum." So don't accuse me of painting Vij when all your doing is saying basically the same thing over and over. I've been bringing logic to my thoughts.

NAI = Non-alignment indicative. When you say something is scummy, it is fair for people to assume that you are scumreading that slot. Now you are saying that "there is definitely more evidence need" while literally saying "I have not come out and said that Vij is scum". I thought Vij was scum? You need to own your reads, but that not something that scum does, which is why I think you are scum.

Also quit saying that you have logic for Vij being scum because Raya literally debunked that by saying that it's actually NAI. Also, you STILL have not responded to my Raya quote still. I agree with her and I want you to answer why you won't even consider that Vij could also do it as town. Self-voting =/= scum.

Also again, I am not just saying " You are just scum" but rather your reaction is scummy as fuck to me. And, that's good enough for me. Along with your blatant avoiding to answer my question on why Vij couldn't do it as town.

I'm sorry, where did you ask any question in here about how he might have done it as town?

[TywinL]

2:

ohh forgot to mention I will be V/LA from the 11th to the 16th. I will still be around just limited activity, though the 13th and the 14th I may be too busy to check in.

Good to know.

VOTE: Vijarada

I don't know anyone else in this game, while I know and actively dislike this bitch.

This seems pretty scummy. OMGUS voting yourself on the first day? Seems like a ploy to get a few laughs and to blend in with the town to me. Please explain your thoughts further, but

FoS

You quoted exactly my reasoning for why it seems scummy. Because throwing a vote at yourself looks like an attempt to blend in with town, because no one's going to take your vote seriously.

No one is gonna take it seriously? That's strange because you took it pretty fucking seriously.

[Sunlit Diamond]

Tywin, why are you reading Raya as town?

Inferno: there is a difference, albeit a narrow one, between scummy behavior and anti-town behavior. Is it fair to say that when you said Vij's self-vote was scummy, you actually meant it was anti-town?

Vij: I'm curious about your take on Inferno v Tywin, given the entire thing is based on your guilt or lack thereof.

Acid: Why did you debate over who to vote for in RVS?

[Sunlit Diamond]

Inferno: there is a difference, albeit a narrow one, between scummy behavior and anti-town behavior. Is it fair to say that when you said Vij's self-vote was scummy, you actually meant it was anti-town?

To explain this since I just realized that difference may exist only in my head. For me, "scummy behavior" comes with an implicit accusation of scum alignment. Anti-town, however, means poor play at odds with town win conditions, and could come from town or scum.

For the record I think Tywin's riding you kind of hard, but your reactions aren't helping your case. Some clarification would help me sort my alignment reads.

[TywinL]

Tywin, why are you reading Raya as town?

Inferno: there is a difference, albeit a narrow one, between scummy behavior and anti-town behavior. Is it fair to say that when you said Vij's self-vote was scummy, you actually meant it was anti-town?

Vij: I'm curious about your take on Inferno v Tywin, given the entire thing is based on your guilt or lack thereof.

Acid: Why did you debate over who to vote for in RVS?

It's not a strong town read, just lean and it's due to the fact that Raya understood that self-voting is NAI and I'm just getting town vibes with her.

Inferno: there is a difference, albeit a narrow one, between scummy behavior and anti-town behavior. Is it fair to say that when you said Vij's self-vote was scummy, you actually meant it was anti-town?

To explain this since I just realized that difference may exist only in my head. For me, "scummy behavior" comes with an implicit accusation of scum alignment. Anti-town, however, means poor play at odds with town win conditions, and could come from town or scum.

For the record I think Tywin's riding you kind of hard, but your reactions aren't helping your case. Some clarification would help me sort my alignment reads.

Yeah I will admit that I am being a bit aggressive but all of my posts before post 58 on Inferno were part of my reaction test.

[Gorny]

Oh wow, this game got serious fast.

I've read through once, but I'm going to go back and read through again, anyways some things that came to mind upfront, or stuff I want to address.

Re: Acid

We've played together once before, that might be the reason he singled me out for an RVS vote instead of Raya, it was in Newbie 1812 Maybe he thinks I'm playing/going to play the same as I did there, or maybe it's some other reason. Not sure, but it's all I can think of.

Re: Inferno

I realize he's new (according to join date), he's asking an awful lot of questions which I would normally scum read (based on IC feedback about such things in newbie games), I'm a bit suspicious but going to give him the benefit of a doubt for now.

Re: Sunlit Diamond

I don't agree with what he said in 36, specifically the point about Inferno being on an RVS wagon that

he

started. If it's RVS and a vote on someone is pure randomness, the wagon forms if and when someone else adds a second vote. In this case, the started of the wagon would then be

Acid

, for voting me in 17. Had Inferno voted me at some point later on with some reason or a valid scum read, it would be a different story. That said, saying that Inferno started the wagon at this point is a lie and I'm now scum reading Sunlit for it.

UNVOTE: Inferno390
VOTE: Sunlit Diamond

[Raya36]

That is a lot of wall

He's trying to paint things that are actually NAI as scummy. He's being way too serious about a simple self-vote.

Maybe you're right but he just seems genuine to me.

From 42 I'm getting the feeling that he might be confusing an anti-town move and a scum move.

He's trying to paint things that are actually NAI as scummy. He's being way too serious about a simple self-vote.

Why are you trying so hard to paint my actions as scummy? Why are you taking my thinking and immeadiately saying that it's scum?
We can play the painting game all day.

This post here does seem a bit overdefensive though.

VOTE: Vijarada

I don't know anyone else in this game, while I know and actively dislike this bitch.

I concur VOTE: Vijarda

Any thoughts on what has been happening so far?

2. Raya did not "literally debunk" that by saying that it's actually NAI. She said, as you quoted your self, "I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before." He did not say is was or was not NAI. Only you. In fact, He said that I might have a point. So stop shoving words down Ray's throat.

Just to clear this up what I'm saying is that self-voting in rvs alone is NAI but with more evidence and insight on motivation etc, etc, you could potentially have a point.

Inferno: there is a difference, albeit a narrow one, between scummy behavior and anti-town behavior. Is it fair to say that when you said Vij's self-vote was scummy, you actually meant it was anti-town?

^^^

Re: Acid

We've played together once before, that might be the reason he singled me out for an RVS vote instead of Raya, it was in Newbie 1812 Maybe he thinks I'm playing/going to play the same as I did there, or maybe it's some other reason. Not sure, but it's all I can think of.

The thing is, is that Acid and I have played together before too.
Newbie 1820

[Inferno390]

Tywin, why are you reading Raya as town?

Inferno: there is a difference, albeit a narrow one, between scummy behavior and anti-town behavior. Is it fair to say that when you said Vij's self-vote was scummy, you actually meant it was anti-town?

Vij: I'm curious about your take on Inferno v Tywin, given the entire thing is based on your guilt or lack thereof.

Acid: Why did you debate over who to vote for in RVS?

You know what, that WOULD be better word choice. Vij's behavior was

anti-town

, which is way clearer than how I put it.

Made it bold and huge.

Going to take this one step at a time. 1:

^
trying way too hard.

How the fuck is self-voting in RVS is scummy? And earlier you said that it seemed pretty scummy, and now it is just "potentially" pretty scummy?

And it also seems like you ignored Raya's statement that self-voting in RVS is actually NAI...in which she is correct.

It's literally RVS, chill out bro. The whole point of RVS is to get the game rolling and that's why it works everytime. I seriously do not like how you are so triggered over a self vote.

Also Raya said this and you have not responded to this:

I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before. I don't think I have enough experience playing with Vij to use meta in any way.

Like I have said, it's NAI. While your reaction to the self-vote does tell me more about your alignment and I think you are scum. There's a difference here so don't try to equate your paint of Vij being scum to me saying that you are scum.

It's literally RVS, chill out bro. The whole point of RVS is to get the game rolling and that's why it works everytime. I seriously do not like how you are so triggered over a self vote.

Also Raya said this and you have not responded to this:

I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before. I don't think I have enough experience playing with Vij to use meta in any way.

Like I have said, it's NAI. While your reaction to the self-vote does tell me more about your alignment and I think you are scum. There's a difference here so don't try to equate your paint of Vij being scum to me saying that you are scum.

What do you mean by NAI? And how is my reaction to the self-vote scummy? I've said that there is definitely more evidence needed, and I have not come out and said that Vij is scum, I've just said that his actions right now do not help the town, and that seems scummy to me.
And whenever someone confronts you about why you're attacking ME, your response is that I'm just scum. That's Argument of Repetition, which is logical fallacy. You've offered no reason for me being scum other than "I don't like your response, so therefore, you're obviously scum." So don't accuse me of painting Vij when all your doing is saying basically the same thing over and over. I've been bringing logic to my thoughts.

NAI = Non-alignment indicative. When you say something is scummy, it is fair for people to assume that you are scumreading that slot. Now you are saying that "there is definitely more evidence need" while literally saying "I have not come out and said that Vij is scum". I thought Vij was scum? You need to own your reads, but that not something that scum does, which is why I think you are scum.

Also quit saying that you have logic for Vij being scum because Raya literally debunked that by saying that it's actually NAI. Also, you STILL have not responded to my Raya quote still. I agree with her and I want you to answer why you won't even consider that Vij could also do it as town. Self-voting =/= scum.

Also again, I am not just saying " You are just scum" but rather your reaction is scummy as fuck to me. And, that's good enough for me. Along with your blatant avoiding to answer my question on why Vij couldn't do it as town.

I'm sorry, where did you ask any question in here about how he might have done it as town?

Questions? I don't see questions. I just see accusations.

2:

ohh forgot to mention I will be V/LA from the 11th to the 16th. I will still be around just limited activity, though the 13th and the 14th I may be too busy to check in.

Good to know.

VOTE: Vijarada

I don't know anyone else in this game, while I know and actively dislike this bitch.

This seems pretty scummy. OMGUS voting yourself on the first day? Seems like a ploy to get a few laughs and to blend in with the town to me. Please explain your thoughts further, but

FoS

You quoted exactly my reasoning for why it seems scummy. Because throwing a vote at yourself looks like an attempt to blend in with town, because no one's going to take your vote seriously.

No one is gonna take it seriously? That's strange because you took it pretty fucking seriously.

Not that seriously, because I only threw an FoS. It would have been a lot different had I thrown my vote.

Moving on,
2. (continued) I didn't make that big of a deal. I just said that it looked pretty scummy (starting to quickly realize how off my terminology is off here, anti-town is the correct word) and asked him to further explain. YOU'RE the one who made it into a big deal. By attacking me and saying that my response immediately pegged me as scum.

3. Yeah, I made a conclusion. I concluded that Vij's behavior was ANTI-TOWN. NOT that he was scum, which is what you've been accusing me of this entire time. I dare you to find one point where I actually came out and called him scum.

4. I am relaxed. I'm laying out all my arguments and organizing all my points, if you haven't noticed. You're the on whose been throwing around wild accusations:

VOTE: Inferno390

VOTE: Inferno390

What's with the sudden vote change there?

Because you're scum.

You wouldn't even give a response until I directly confronted you for one. This doesn't look like you had ANY point to argue. It looks like you jumped all over my case and THEN tried to build an argument around it. But see, that doesn't work, because the longer this goes on, the more you get trapped in what you've already said.

5. If you disagreed with what I said, you should have debated it, not immediately voted for me. Besides, I voted for you because you've been attacking me and making pretty bad arguments yourself about how I'm scum, but apparently it was still an OMGUS vote. (It would be good to point out that your vote, as quoted above, has been the only OMGUS vote made.) And what bad reaction? All I've done is defend my position!

6. So apparently a vote means nothing but an FoS means

everything?

That's even more convulted logic than LYING about your scumread.

IN response to your own points:

No, I still think that Vij is suspicious because that's not the strongest argument as to why he did it. Like I've said, I've have never intentionally accused anyone of being scummy (except you).

YOU were the one who started this with YOUR OMGUS vote. Not me. So let's get that clear.

Well, my reaction was to ask you why you voted for me, and then defended my position- like anyone else would do.

The reaction test was not dumb (that's part of scum-hunting.) But the idea that you just made up the ENTIRE reaction test just to get a response out of me IS. And that is an excellent use of a policy LyAL, because all you've actually done is lie about your reaction test to make me look bad. So yeah, that's not staying on top of me; that's trying to pin me down as a scum with no real claim. (And you wondered why I voted for you.)

[Inferno390]

He's trying to paint things that are actually NAI as scummy. He's being way too serious about a simple self-vote.

Why are you trying so hard to paint my actions as scummy? Why are you taking my thinking and immeadiately saying that it's scum?
We can play the painting game all day.

This post here does seem a bit overdefensive though.

VOTE: Vijarada

I don't know anyone else in this game, while I know and actively dislike this bitch.

I concur VOTE: Vijarda

Any thoughts on what has been happening so far?

2. Raya did not "literally debunk" that by saying that it's actually NAI. She said, as you quoted your self, "I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before." He did not say is was or was not NAI. Only you. In fact, He said that I might have a point. So stop shoving words down Ray's throat.

Just to clear this up what I'm saying is that self-voting in rvs alone is NAI but with more evidence and insight on motivation etc, etc, you could potentially have a point.

A: He was being very aggressive nd throwing around accusations. So I was very defensive. That happens.
B: Okay.

[Raya36]

He's trying to paint things that are actually NAI as scummy. He's being way too serious about a simple self-vote.

Why are you trying so hard to paint my actions as scummy? Why are you taking my thinking and immeadiately saying that it's scum?
We can play the painting game all day.

This post here does seem a bit overdefensive though.

VOTE: Vijarada

I don't know anyone else in this game, while I know and actively dislike this bitch.

I concur VOTE: Vijarda

Any thoughts on what has been happening so far?

2. Raya did not "literally debunk" that by saying that it's actually NAI. She said, as you quoted your self, "I think you have a point in saying that he might be trying to blend in but it is rvs and I have seen town do similar things to this before." He did not say is was or was not NAI. Only you. In fact, He said that I might have a point. So stop shoving words down Ray's throat.

Just to clear this up what I'm saying is that self-voting in rvs alone is NAI but with more evidence and insight on motivation etc, etc, you could potentially have a point.

A: He was being very aggressive nd throwing around accusations. So I was very defensive. That happens.
B: Okay.

Alright. I need to look more into this tomorrow night. Is okay all you have to say to that though?

Also I don't think you've responded to this yet.

Inferno, can you explain in a little more detail why you think Vij's self vote is scummy? So far from my understanding it's because he could be trying to blend in but what makes his post stand out from any of the other rvs votes?

[Sunlit Diamond]

Re: Sunlit Diamond

I don't agree with what he said in 36, specifically the point about Inferno being on an RVS wagon that he started. If it's RVS and a vote on someone is pure randomness, the wagon forms if and when someone else adds a second vote. In this case, the started of the wagon would then be Acid, for voting me in 17. Had Inferno voted me at some point later on with some reason or a valid scum read, it would be a different story. That said, saying that Inferno started the wagon at this point is a lie and I'm now scum reading Sunlit for it.

First person on wagon = person who started wagon. Not a lie. Statement of fact.

Odd that you would blow it out so much though.

[Gorny]

Re: Sunlit Diamond

I don't agree with what he said in 36, specifically the point about Inferno being on an RVS wagon that he started. If it's RVS and a vote on someone is pure randomness, the wagon forms if and when someone else adds a second vote. In this case, the started of the wagon would then be Acid, for voting me in 17. Had Inferno voted me at some point later on with some reason or a valid scum read, it would be a different story. That said, saying that Inferno started the wagon at this point is a lie and I'm now scum reading Sunlit for it.

First person on wagon = person who started wagon. Not a lie. Statement of fact.

Odd that you would blow it out so much though.

Not in my eyes.