Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]

[Sobolev Space]

okay thanks i was just trying to be clear. i thought your progression from 59 to 63 looked odd but couldn't sort it so i was just trying to get to the bottom of what u were thinking

still think 66 was unnecessarily abrasive but we can table this discussion for now

[Cabd]

Oh are we done. Okay. Let's talk about how micc just skipped over my entrence entirely?

[Sobolev Space]

hmm.. i hadn't noticed that.

[northsidegal]

So who of Cheekyteeky, Micc, and nothsidegal is most likely to be scum on your wagon?

although that's a valid question on its own i think he was talking more generally about the idea that he'd be lynched just for the placement of his rvs vote and how scum would have to be on that wagon if it went trhough. i don't think specifically he was calling any of those three scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

still think 66 was unnecessarily abrasive but we can table this discussion for now

Sorry, abrasive is my playstyle :/

[northsidegal]

Cabd raises some interesting points. It is certainly true that scum generally want to look useful but stay under the radar. This could indeed be accomplished by sheeping, or by posting without votes (as Northsidegal mentioned). However, one thing that is not conducive to that is to make a point about not voting, which draws attention to it.

but it wasn't really that cabd made a specific point of not voting, it was only after being questioned by ss that he specifically mentioned not wanting to vote. i think at that point it would've been more suspicious to place an rvs vote than to double down on not voting. i guess my whole point here is that it's nai. for what it's worth i think most of the pressure against cabd feels artificial, like people are trying to find reasons to pressure or vote him.

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Hopkirk what do you think about micc? I think Cabd indirectly asked you a question about RVS shortly after your last post too.

[Micc]

Oh are we done. Okay. Let's talk about how micc just skipped over my entrence entirely?

You haven't really done anything interesting at this point so that's where I'm at.

So who of Cheekyteeky, Micc, and nothsidegal is most likely to be scum on your wagon?

although that's a valid question on its own i think he was talking more generally about the idea that he'd be lynched just for the placement of his rvs vote and how scum would have to be on that wagon if it went trhough. i don't think specifically he was calling any of those three scum.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Chip says Chip meant instead of what northsidegal thinks Chip meant.

[northsidegal]

so this is what i mean when i say that pressure on cabd feels artificial. i feel like i have a good enough idea of scumhunting (in general, if not for cheeky's playstyle in particular) to say that the reasoning here feels forced. i'm not sure why a scum cheeky would specifically want a cabd wagon so i don't know if this is necessarily indicitive of scum but i feel like it's still strange enough to warrant pointing out.

whole post for reference:

Spoiler:

Cool, everyone has checked in. I disagree with BTD6 (did you really make that game?), I think Cabd not voting is NAI, based on one game I've played with him. In the game he was town, but we see he is aware that he's played with me from his newbie comment earlier ITT. Cabd, being a meta genius, probably knows to not RVS vote again to have me assume a town read on him. So, the potential self-awareness of his opening move nullifies me reading him as a town lean, based on that one point alone. I feel there are other points that raise my suspicion on Cabd. First off he enters without providing any indication of early reads, when there's only one page to go off, so it wouldn't be hard to skim and then enter announcing any thoughts to help progress the game. Second, his "loaded gun" response to being questionned about not RVS voting, feels dramatic and out of place, like the emphasis is on being reasonable about voting, but we're not out of the RVS woods yet. Third, he comments on his own replacement slot by saying that rc doesn't like town, thats probably why he replaced, but that the point is also null. I'm not sure what the point of this comment is, if not to subtly put in our minds that his slot is town.

Overall I'd say I have an early scum lean on Cabd.
VOTE: Cabd

I think Cabd not voting is NAI, based on one game I've played with him. In the game he was town, but we see he is aware that he's played with me from his newbie comment earlier ITT. Cabd, being a meta genius, probably knows to not RVS vote again to have me assume a town read on him. So, the potential self-awareness of his opening move nullifies me reading him as a town lean, based on that one point alone.

i only know cabd as a mod but it doesn't seem realistic that he specifically thought of his rvs behavior in his last game with cheeky and made the conscious decision to do the same thing to attempt to bait cheeky. maybe cabd really is a meta genius and thought through this all but it just doesn't make sense to me. i know cheeky's conclusion here was that it's null, but why even mention all this? this is what i mean when i say artificial.

First off he enters without providing any indication of early reads, when there's only one page to go off, so it wouldn't be hard to skim and then enter announcing any thoughts to help progress the game. Second, his "loaded gun" response to being questionned about not RVS voting, feels dramatic and out of place, like the emphasis is on being reasonable about voting, but we're not out of the RVS woods yet.

this is kind of a reasonable point but it still seems odd to be specifically directed towards cabd. there are other people at this point who have contributed less. as for the second point i'd repeat what a lot of people have already said that being more careful with your vote isn't necessarily scummy.

Third, he comments on his own replacement slot by saying that rc doesn't like town, thats probably why he replaced, but that the point is also null. I'm not sure what the point of this comment is, if not to subtly put in our minds that his slot is town.

you misread what he was saying. he didn't say that rc probably replaced because he doesn't like town, he said that in normal circumstances it would indicate that the slot is scum but due to rc leaving all of the games ( ) it doesn't mean anything.

also i guess you could say that what ss was saying about the pressure disappearing quickly is artificial, but i'm not really making that point and i'm not really sure about it.

[northsidegal]

Oh are we done. Okay. Let's talk about how micc just skipped over my entrence entirely?

You haven't really done anything interesting at this point so that's where I'm at.

So who of Cheekyteeky, Micc, and nothsidegal is most likely to be scum on your wagon?

although that's a valid question on its own i think he was talking more generally about the idea that he'd be lynched just for the placement of his rvs vote and how scum would have to be on that wagon if it went trhough. i don't think specifically he was calling any of those three scum.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Chip says Chip meant instead of what northsidegal thinks Chip meant.

rude!! we're still sort of in rvs so i don't feel bad about this!
VOTE: micc

[Micc]

You're the one that should fee bad. If you've made an analysis post that references four different quotes - chances are you aren't in RVS anymore.

[CheekyTeeky]

i know cheeky's conclusion here was that it's null, but why even mention all this? this is what i mean when i say artificial.

I started off with the premise that Cabd not RVSing is NAI futher to BTD's town read of this point, that's why I felt the need to elaborate on a null point. I prefaced the whole post with "I disagree with BTD blah blah blah" and outlined my points on cabd in contrast to BTD. I think you're fishing for something that isn't there with my push on Cabd and that you're intentionally ignoring my strat spec post, where I indirectly point out why my first push is Cabd.

What is it that you think you know about my town playstyle in RVS, that you're not seeing here? I'd also like to make the point that I don't have enough meta for there to be consistency in my play yet, but that's my subjective opinion. I don't like that you've spent the time to make me your biggest announced scum lean, yet you don't vote me. Instead you place another RVS vote on someone...why?

[Cabd]

I mean if Cheeky starts channeling Awoo I'l gladly string her up but nah.

[northsidegal]

i know cheeky's conclusion here was that it's null, but why even mention all this? this is what i mean when i say artificial.

I started off with the premise that Cabd not RVSing is NAI futher to BTD's town read of this point, that's why I felt the need to elaborate on a null point. I prefaced the whole post with "I disagree with BTD blah blah blah" and outlined my points on cabd in contrast to BTD. I think you're fishing for something that isn't there with my push on Cabd and that you're intentionally ignoring my strat spec post, where I indirectly point out why my first push is Cabd.

What is it that you think you know about my town playstyle in RVS, that you're not seeing here? I'd also like to make the point that I don't have enough meta for there to be consistency in my play yet, but that's my subjective opinion. I don't like that you've spent the time to make me your biggest announced scum lean, yet you don't vote me. Instead you place another RVS vote on someone...why?

which one is your strat spec post?

on the second point, two things. first, it was just that everything about the post i was quoting felt forced. it didn't feel like natural reasoning, it felt like you were inventing reasons to suspect cabd. next, you're not my biggest announced scum lean. like i said, i don't see any sort of anti-town motivation for what you did, it's just that the reasoning seems off. one could make the argument that scum would want to manufacture a wagon on someone they know to be town, but i think standard practice there would just be to further someone else's wagon with the knowledge that that person is town, so that point doesn't hold up.

[Cabd]

@NSG; you may find this relevant: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73237

[northsidegal]

@NSG; you may find this relevant: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73237

believe it or not i've already been in the process of reading that game and i've gotten a bit through day one, i just haven't had the time to read through it all. i guess i should prioritize it more, it'd be useful for this game.

[CheekyTeeky]

I mean if Cheeky starts channeling Awoo I'l gladly string her up but nah.

Lol @ this.

[Cabd]

Also, re "meta master" my title is a thing because at one point i kept a literal binder full of meta tells for every user, and read every single game that took place in a two year period to tally it.

I'm married and have a job now, so lolnope.jpg anymore.

[CheekyTeeky]

It might be a good strat to sort experienced/high contributing players first, and if there is enough consensus that the player is likely scum, they would be an ideal first lynch.

Here NSG.

Ok so it feels forced, but breaking out of RVS requires discussion (not just complaining about it eh Micc), I bring up thoughts and opinions to stimulate such and make reads based on the points. Sometimes the points are useless or feel forced because I have almost nothing to work wot to try and make something. I don't believe my itention looked like a way to create a Cabd wagon, particularly when I announced the intention to move my vote after some back and forth. And also after the discussion with sobo where I said I use my vote to get info rather than as an accusation at this stage... so I don't know why everyone is getting so precious about Cabd?

[Cabd]

I don't know why everyone is getting so precious about Cabd?

Because I am as innocent as a newborn kitten's paw pads?

[northsidegal]

It might be a good strat to sort experienced/high contributing players first, and if there is enough consensus that the player is likely scum, they would be an ideal first lynch.

Here NSG.

Ok so it feels forced, but breaking out of RVS requires discussion (not just complaining about it eh Micc), I bring up thoughts and opinions to stimulate such and make reads based on the points. Sometimes the points are useless or feel forced because I have almost nothing to work wot to try and make something. I don't believe my itention looked like a way to create a Cabd wagon, particularly when I announced the intention to move my vote after some back and forth. And also after the discussion with sobo where I said I use my vote to get info rather than as an accusation at this stage... so I don't know why everyone is getting so precious about Cabd?

okay, that's reasonable on both the explanation and the plan (although i suspect we might be biased being newbies). sorry about missing the strategy post. also, i hope it doesn't come off like i'm hard defending cabd, it's just to me a lot of the pressure on cabd doesn't make sense, so i feel like it's useful to point that out.

Also, re "meta master" my title is a thing because at one point i kept a literal binder full of meta tells for every user, and read every single game that took place in a two year period to tally it.

I'm married and have a job now, so lolnope.jpg anymore.

hmm, sounds like a good idea. maybe i should take some notes whenever i'm reading through a game.

[Micc]

rude!! we're still sort of in rvs so i don't feel bad about this!VOTE: micc

Really tho. what's up with this vote northsidegal?

You're clearly analyzing the game at this point and thus not in RVS anymore...but I was being rude so I get a vote...and its ok because RVS?

[Micc]

now i've got two trs and one of them isn't cabd

This seems to imply you got a town read on Hopkirk from post 38. Can you explain that one please?

[CheekyTeeky]

rude!! we're still sort of in rvs so i don't feel bad about this!VOTE: micc

Really tho. what's up with this vote northsidegal?

You're clearly analyzing the game at this point and thus not in RVS anymore...but I was being rude so I get a vote...and its ok because RVS?

How would you interpret this as AI micc? Like what would make this townie and scummy in your opinion?

[Micc]

uhh neutral I guess. If I felt like I already had a read off of it I wouldn't be digging into it by asking questions