Mini Normal 1952: Dragon's Dance [OVER - PERFECT SCUM WIN]

[acidphoenix]

what do you think of boon

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think you’re playing fucking semantics man. I suspect that was a typo.

Even if she has played before, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she isn’t a newbie. She could still not understand a lot of roles or basic mafia terminology. She could have less than 10 games under her belt for all we know.

You do have a point about her claiming but I just don’t see the way she did it coming from scum. What would her scum motivation be to claim like that? It reads more like a rookie mistake.

I’m not following you on why wouldn’t a newbie say that. It feels like you’re reaching again.

As for the reads list itself, I think it’s just a bunch of jumbled up thoughts and reeks of only having half an understanding of what’s going on and what people are doing

What was a typo?

Right, which is why I explicitly asked if she had experience off site.

The way I see a VT claim coming from Scum is to get a quick claim out so they don't have to worry about it later.

You don't get why a Newbie wouldn't say what?

Possible that she doesn't know what's going on with the reads list, but it also looks like some things could be fabricated.

The lunch thing.

Is it really a worry when you have 2 or 3 people to converse with?

No I don’t get that at all. Explain like I’m 5 because right now it sounds like you’re making something out of nothing.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

i meant mostly in terms of mumble's alignment not agreement with his opinions or whatnot

Yeah I got nothing.

As I said earlier, he’s null for me.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think you’re playing fucking semantics man. I suspect that was a typo.

Even if she has played before, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she isn’t a newbie. She could still not understand a lot of roles or basic mafia terminology. She could have less than 10 games under her belt for all we know.

You do have a point about her claiming but I just don’t see the way she did it coming from scum. What would her scum motivation be to claim like that? It reads more like a rookie mistake.

I’m not following you on why wouldn’t a newbie say that. It feels like you’re reaching again.

As for the reads list itself, I think it’s just a bunch of jumbled up thoughts and reeks of only having half an understanding of what’s going on and what people are doing

What was a typo?

Right, which is why I explicitly asked if she had experience off site.

The way I see a VT claim coming from Scum is to get a quick claim out so they don't have to worry about it later.

You don't get why a Newbie wouldn't say what?

Possible that she doesn't know what's going on with the reads list, but it also looks like some things could be fabricated.

The lunch thing.

Is it really a worry when you have 2 or 3 people to converse with?

No I don’t get that at all. Explain like I’m 5 because right now it sounds like you’re making something out of nothing.

The lunch thing was cleared up.

IDK what your second sentence is addressing.

I don't feel like explaining a basic tell in simple terms.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

what do you think of boon

Nothing? His claim early on isn’t out of the norm for him and he has barely posted.

Why do I feel like you’re asking aimless question?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think you’re playing fucking semantics man. I suspect that was a typo.

Even if she has played before, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she isn’t a newbie. She could still not understand a lot of roles or basic mafia terminology. She could have less than 10 games under her belt for all we know.

You do have a point about her claiming but I just don’t see the way she did it coming from scum. What would her scum motivation be to claim like that? It reads more like a rookie mistake.

I’m not following you on why wouldn’t a newbie say that. It feels like you’re reaching again.

As for the reads list itself, I think it’s just a bunch of jumbled up thoughts and reeks of only having half an understanding of what’s going on and what people are doing

What was a typo?

Right, which is why I explicitly asked if she had experience off site.

The way I see a VT claim coming from Scum is to get a quick claim out so they don't have to worry about it later.

You don't get why a Newbie wouldn't say what?

Possible that she doesn't know what's going on with the reads list, but it also looks like some things could be fabricated.

The lunch thing.

Is it really a worry when you have 2 or 3 people to converse with?

No I don’t get that at all. Explain like I’m 5 because right now it sounds like you’re making something out of nothing.

The lunch thing was cleared up.

IDK what your second sentence is addressing.

I don't feel like explaining a basic tell in simple terms.

I know that now. I was saying that I thought you were playing semantics earlier.

I’m referring to her claiming VT and your take on what was her motivation to do that as scum.

What tell? Walk me through man, seriously.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think you’re playing fucking semantics man. I suspect that was a typo.

Even if she has played before, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she isn’t a newbie. She could still not understand a lot of roles or basic mafia terminology. She could have less than 10 games under her belt for all we know.

You do have a point about her claiming but I just don’t see the way she did it coming from scum. What would her scum motivation be to claim like that? It reads more like a rookie mistake.

I’m not following you on why wouldn’t a newbie say that. It feels like you’re reaching again.

As for the reads list itself, I think it’s just a bunch of jumbled up thoughts and reeks of only having half an understanding of what’s going on and what people are doing

What was a typo?

Right, which is why I explicitly asked if she had experience off site.

The way I see a VT claim coming from Scum is to get a quick claim out so they don't have to worry about it later.

You don't get why a Newbie wouldn't say what?

Possible that she doesn't know what's going on with the reads list, but it also looks like some things could be fabricated.

The lunch thing.

Is it really a worry when you have 2 or 3 people to converse with?

No I don’t get that at all. Explain like I’m 5 because right now it sounds like you’re making something out of nothing.

The lunch thing was cleared up.

IDK what your second sentence is addressing.

I don't feel like explaining a basic tell in simple terms.

I know that now. I was saying that I thought you were playing semantics earlier.

I’m referring to her claiming VT and your take on what was her motivation to do that as scum.

What tell? Walk me through man, seriously.

What don't you get about my take on why she might do that as Scum?

Scum - especially newb Scum - give fishy looking reads because its hard for them to fake good reads. I mean, I get that you are saying "No, they just don't know what's going on." But we don't actually know if its fake reads or not without pressure.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

What I’m saying is, why do you think it is a worry when from your POV, she’ll have 2 or 3 people to discuss and come up with a viable fake claim privately?

I have never heard of that actually. Has anyone else? Fishy reads are fishy reads regardless if you’re just starting out or a vet.

[LicketyQuickety]

What I’m saying is, why do you think it is a worry when from your POV, she’ll have 2 or 3 people to discuss and come up with a viable fake claim privately?

I have never heard of that actually. Has anyone else? Fishy reads are fishy reads regardless if you’re just starting out or a vet.

Well, IDK about you, but IDK what is going on in Mafia chat. We don't know if Lalendral said that before Scum had a group meeting to discuss strategy. IMO this site underutilized Mafia Chat quite a bit. I've been in games where Mafia didn't say much at all when Day Chat was a thing.

[Egg]

I wasn't saying Havo is trying too hard to look town. I was saying that being that aggressive can be risky. I don't necessarily have a read on Havo either way yet.

Which brings me back to wondering why it's risky and where you saw him being aggressive...

egg how to improve your reads rn

step one: don't vote for quick

Someone who I'm not impressed with so far tells me to change my vote and doesn't give me a reason. Let me think on that. Oh wait, nah, don't need to.

I think you missed the part about Acid NOT being the person I thought they were?

That doesn't erase the weird buddying/animosity combo I saw there. It's more about where your head was at when you thought Acid was that person. Your thoughts felt calculated there and even if those are no longer your thoughts because of a mistake you made, I still didn't like possible motivation behind those posts.

Not sure if you are saying my read on Shea has change or if you are talking about Shea's read on me. In any case. My read on Shea has not really changed.

The way you talk about him appears to have changed.

Look at her reads on Toco and Shadd. In her reads list it appeared like they were a Null read considering she tagged them as "I need to see more from you" or something like that. Then she lists them as her strongest Scum reads.

Oh, I thought you were trying to say she had mumble and myself as her biggest scum reads. Hmm. I dunno, the "would like to see more" felt more like an afterthought tagged on to a scum read. Like if you remove the more content part you have:
"Tacos voted Havo for voting Boon, then jumped on schadd policy wagon on TSQ, then voted tchill without explanation.
Schadd policy voted TSQ, and said "Acid is a little yikes," but did not elaborate."
^which while maybe a little IIOA, sounds more like scum reads than null reads.

Did Acid ask a question to Lalendra? I forget.

Seemed like Acid wanted more from the reads list and lalendra explained that there wasn't really any more to it. I definitely didn't read it as defensiveness.

Not quite sure why you think it was YOUR question when Egg was the person who made that comment.

Lelandra asked the question. I just chimed in.

Egg: In response to our LQ discussion--
1) I think "unfiltered" sort of roughly matches up with "town." Scum playing like they're unfiltered are always filtering at least something, I feel. I don't think that's what's happening here. I acknowledge I could be wrong on this.
2) Yup :>
3) I dunno, doesn't it seem like such a careless thing for a hypothetical scum to throw out there? Does LQ scum normally open with something like "yeah I'm stupid and say stupid things?"

*shrug*. Some scum are very good at coming off as unfiltered even if they aren't. I like to think I'm good at it. I know Nacho is good at it. Lickety, I'm not familiar enough with to say for sure. But whether you are town or scum, owning it when you fuck up goes a long way towards not getting lynched over something stupid. And outing reaction tells is definitely something that can get you run up, and with good reason. There's no possible town motivation to stop a reaction test dead in it's tracks. But as scum it can stop your buddies from falling into traps. Now if you do that and then react poorly, yeah, you open yourself up to being lynched. But by owning that you did something that doesn't help town, people tend to be more forgiving. So yeah, I can see scum doing that just as much as I can see town doing it.

Egg, I was trying to express that I didn’t get Taco saying he should be a strong town read and then using tchill not having him as his strongest town read as a way to further strengthen his scum read on him. I’m not sure what to make of Taco yet but that interaction pinged me.

Ah. Yeah, that makes sense. I also found it weird, but not necessarily scummy.

I have never heard of that actually. Has anyone else? Fishy reads are fishy reads regardless if you’re just starting out or a vet.

New scum can definitely have trouble coming up with "reads" but they tend to lurk and not contribute rather than give horrible reads. I didn't read Lelandra's reads as "fabricated" though so I don't see why it applies here unless Lickety wants to be more specific.

[Tchill13]

ok i'd still like to pressure acid a bit more. Voted boon and hasn't really pointed in any other directions.

[Tchill13]

as far as scum tending to lurk goes mumble would fall underneath that category

[Tchill13]

Only scummy things I've seen so far is errant pushing me for lack of content when most players were around 5ish posts.

Low post count doesn’t mean lack of content.

Do you think Errant is forcing having a strong read on you or something?

I just felt like errant brought up an issue that could lead to a lot of momentum on my wagon that could then be pushed to a Lynch.

The action isn't scummy it's the timing of it. Pushing someone for lack of content as soon as the game starts? Are you serious? That's why I questioned it because it's a reasonable excuse and the TIMING. Nothing better for scum to find a reasonable excuse to lead a mislynch on someone.

I think I kind of get what you’re saying here but I also don’t really see it. Errant doesn’t strike me as the careless type.

I find that there are players who don’t like a prolonged RVS stage or are just eager to get to game solving. Why is pushing for lack of content so early more likely to come from scum than town?

I see much more motivation in that instance from scum rather than town. i believe i had 2 votes on me and errant was already one of them. Errant laid the foundation for some serious momentum. So from that view there wouldn't be much discussion about other players and less stances would have been taken. I haven't played with errant before but since this i've stated a town read on him because his breakdowns make sense and he's looking like he's trying to get multiple reads.

[Tchill13]

so far egg, errant and boonskies are players i'd rather not lynch. Uzi has provided a lot of content but it seems to mostly come from the back and forth with LQ. Havo stated he thought LQ was playing too hard and i can kinda see his point but i'd rather push mumble or acid atm.

[Tchill13]

not sure what to think of Schadd or thestatusquo atm.

[Tchill13]

Town: Egg, Errant
lean town: Havo, LQ
Null: Schadd, thestatusquo, sergtacos
lean scum: Uzi, mumble, lalendra
Scum: acid

[Tchill13]

boon is null atm too

[LicketyQuickety]

1) Fact remains that Tchill is still a fine wagon as someone who has had 7 posts to advance the game but has actually done almost nothing.

2) Havo's 31 is unnecessarily chip-on-shoulder. Unfortunately I couldn't find any scum games from him, so there's really nothing to look into there (and perhaps there wouldn't be anything to look into even if there were scum games to read). But early Havo ISOs in other games have him being pretty personable. Thoughts, Havo?

3) LQ's weird Lalendra analysis is pretty town. Fast look into LQ's normal games (from his very helpful wiki) makes me comfortable with that read.

4) Any pronouns are fine.

Alright it's day one and we're on page 5 I'm not sure what I should be talking about yet. What do you want me to discuss?

VOTE: errantparabola

counter wagons for days

VOTE: errant

lol i talked myself back into it.

Was this just an OMGUS then?

Only scummy things I've seen so far is errant pushing me for lack of content when most players were around 5ish posts.

Low post count doesn’t mean lack of content.

Do you think Errant is forcing having a strong read on you or something?

I just felt like errant brought up an issue that could lead to a lot of momentum on my wagon that could then be pushed to a Lynch.

Only scummy things I've seen so far is errant pushing me for lack of content when most players were around 5ish posts.

Low post count doesn’t mean lack of content.

Do you think Errant is forcing having a strong read on you or something?

I just felt like errant brought up an issue that could lead to a lot of momentum on my wagon that could then be pushed to a Lynch.

The action isn't scummy it's the timing of it. Pushing someone for lack of content as soon as the game starts? Are you serious? That's why I questioned it because it's a reasonable excuse and the TIMING. Nothing better for scum to find a reasonable excuse to lead a mislynch on someone.

I think I kind of get what you’re saying here but I also don’t really see it. Errant doesn’t strike me as the careless type.

I find that there are players who don’t like a prolonged RVS stage or are just eager to get to game solving. Why is pushing for lack of content so early more likely to come from scum than town?

I see much more motivation in that instance from scum rather than town. i believe i had 2 votes on me and errant was already one of them. Errant laid the foundation for some serious momentum. So from that view there wouldn't be much discussion about other players and less stances would have been taken. I haven't played with errant before but since this i've stated a town read on him because his breakdowns make sense and he's looking like he's trying to get multiple reads.

I find it slightly odd that you are worried about getting lynched so early in the day (D1 no less)? Like its kinda normal for wagons to go all over the place the first 4-5 days or so, would you agree?

1) Fact remains that Tchill is still a fine wagon as someone who has had 7 posts to advance the game but has actually done almost nothing.

2) Havo's 31 is unnecessarily chip-on-shoulder. Unfortunately I couldn't find any scum games from him, so there's really nothing to look into there (and perhaps there wouldn't be anything to look into even if there were scum games to read). But early Havo ISOs in other games have him being pretty personable. Thoughts, Havo?

3) LQ's weird Lalendra analysis is pretty town. Fast look into LQ's normal games (from his very helpful wiki) makes me comfortable with that read.

4) Any pronouns are fine.

Alright it's day one and we're on page 5 I'm not sure what I should be talking about yet. What do you want me to discuss?

Town: Egg, Errant
lean town: Havo, LQ
Null: Schadd, thestatusquo, sergtacos
lean scum: Uzi, mumble, lalendra
Scum: acid

boon is null atm too

How strong are your reads at this point?

[LicketyQuickety]

I could prolly vote Boon. tsq makes a decent point on them. Plus they only have one post. The fact that they have one post doesn't invalidate that they could be doing a reaction test. On the contrary it actually bolsters my argument. But you can't read what you can't read.

@tsq and anyone else accusing me of having no progression on Boon.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ pointed out that TSQ vs Uzi is probably not S v S, which I agree with. LQ has also made some good points, despite claiming stupidity earlier. I'm thinking town but not sure.

I don't have any super strong reads yet but currently, Tacos and Schadd are probably my biggest scumreads simply because they have posted without actually saying or contributing much. Players who have more experience with them (or just in general) are welcome to tell me if they think I'm wrong on those.

...

P-Edit: Not a bad vote from TSQ for LQ. I am open to jumping on this wagon, depending on where it goes.

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

[Carcalilly]

Vote Count 1.4

Boonskiies(1)

: acidphoenix

Thestatusquo(3)

: schadd_, Errantparabola, Havo

Errantparabola(1)

: Sergtacos

Lalendra(1)

: LicketyQuickety

Tchill13(1)

: Lil Uzi Vert

LicketyQuickety(1)

: Thestatusquo, Egg

acidphoenix(2)

: Tchill13, mumble

Nobody(3)

: Boonskiies, Tchill13, Lalendra

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-10-22 15:00:00)

[Thestatusquo]

LQ I guess my biggest question is what do you mean by 'this seems reasonable'

Like, the post you were responding to was explanation
For the thing you now say you're voting for. If you think it's a reasonable reason to do what boon did, how can you then turn around and vote for them with no explanation?

I'm also really unhappy about the lunch comment. Attacking someone you labeled as a newbie because of an obvious typo is ???

[Lalendra]

I'm satisfied with my dialogue with LQ for the moment. I'm getting tired and it seems like I thought some stuff was directed at me that wasn't so tell me if there were any questions that I didn't answer.

Hang on a minute. I did ask you a few questions in my response.

Not sure I got this question from you the first time around. Not quite sure why you think it was YOUR question when Egg was the person who made that comment. We will see how good Uzi's memory is shortly.

Thanks for the info.

OK

Where were the questions?

[Lalendra]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

It just seems, at this point, like you're belaboring some pretty bad points and tunneling on me when I feel like I've explained myself pretty thoroughly. The "lunch" thing was REALLY reaching as a scumtell, and I think you're kind of making a mountain out of a molehill with other things. It seems to me as though you see others leaning potential scum on me, or debating "scumtell vs. newbie mistake", so you are pushing for me to be scum without any real concrete reasons.

[acidphoenix]

luv who on this list would you disagree with (being town):

quick, errant, egg, lalendra, mumble, schadd

except lalendra and add luv and remove quick and yourself