Newbie 1829: The Mandela Effect - GAME OVER

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-3

Which is it?

Bory

(1): Paradise

Jodaxq

(1): sheepsaysmeep

aphix

(1): Jodaxq

Paradise

(1): Chip Butty

Not Voting

(4): James Brafin, MathBlade, aphix, Bory, Achamian

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: October 26, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-10-25 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Bory has (expired on 2017-10-13 22:37:03) in which to post before I must seek a replacement.
-

[sheepsaysmeep]

darn missed the pagetop

[Paradise]

UNVOTE:

Math: I'm not sure why anyone would really be town reading him here, most of it's been IC post with has nothing to do with alignment, but perhaps some of it's because of him overreaching with my RVS. Like, I get what he's saying, but one, influencing others play isn't always a bad thing, and two, I don't see how you assume I'm trying to prevent sheeping, and three, sheeping rarely is a helpful town thing. You either are blindly following someone else, or you are doing something while keeping your motives completely hidden which isn't great for town.

To who asked if I was serious with RVS, no.

Sheep: I'm concerned their alignment already, but I'm not sure yet if it's an issue posting style, sentence structure or not.

Paradise: I feel has over explained just about everything, in just about every post, and that pings hard.

Heads up, I work full time and just started full time online classes, so I'm not going to be super dedicated to the game, but should have time to check it at work and a hopefully in the evening as well. Might not have stayed in the game but I'm excited about playing in a game with people I don't think I've played with before.

Good luck with your schedule, there was a time I did both work and classes, it was hectic. Much blessings bro

[aphix]

Sheep: I'm concerned their alignment already, but I'm not sure yet if it's an issue posting style, sentence structure or not.

If you're going to scum read me back it up with a bit of evidence please

Well, I didn't say I scum read you. Just that I'm concerned with your slot. I also acknowledge I made be getting that from a non alignment indicative item, which is an indicator I'm trying to sort it out.

Also, could you tell me where Math is scum hunting?

PEDIT:
VOTE: Paradise
PEDIT2: Thanks for the positive thoughts, the vote doesn't have anything to do with those.

[Paradise]

You have no reason to even fos me... xd

[Jodaxq]

Math: I'm not sure why anyone would really be town reading him here, most of it's been IC post with has nothing to do with alignment, but perhaps some of it's because of him overreaching with my RVS. Like, I get what he's saying, but one, influencing others play isn't always a bad thing, and two, I don't see how you assume I'm trying to prevent sheeping, and three, sheeping rarely is a helpful town thing. You either are blindly following someone else, or you are doing something while keeping your motives completely hidden which isn't great for town.

Sheep: I'm concerned their alignment already, but I'm not sure yet if it's an issue posting style, sentence structure or not.

Paradise: I feel has over explained just about everything, in just about every post, and that pings hard.

I agree about Math. At this point I believe most of his posts are just from an IC who's trying their best to get people to better explain their thoughts. They have certainly been scumhunting some, but I feel like a mafia who's also trying to be an encouraging IC would would have to insert some evidence of scumhunting. I have a null read on him currently although I'm suspicious at his early FoSes.

I give sheep a town lean because of a similar reason. He seems very eager to respond to people with posts that seem very stream of consciousness. Basically his posts have an organic feel to me which makes me think town.

Would you like to quote some of Paradise's posts and explain this further? All of his posts have been very short and if anything I feel like he hasn't explained any of his thoughts fully.

[Paradise]

VOTE: Chip Butty

Call it a noob move or what you want but I am voting this solely for his garbage reasoning... Guy pulled his reason out of his ass

[Paradise]

I voted Chip just because he voted me posts are incoming!

[aphix]

So, you vote me for actually saying the most optimal way to get a town win here? Your reasoning makes no sense... Explain

One, I'm so glad he has an optimal way for town to win. I'd be nice if he can share the details, maybe we can get a town win streak going in newbies. It reads very condescending, and then commands someone to explain, but it doesn't look like there is interest in discussion. As if there was, there'd be an actually attempt to draw out thoughts instead of shut someone down.

Did you ever think that every player does this sort of jokey kind of vote? Because I do not, that's for sure... I play the game as intended finding scum through speech patterns. Not everyone will make that type of vote just for the sake of voting someone

He talks about how he plays the game here, and despite RVS being pretty common site meta, indicates we should take RVS more seriously? And he's already at post 20 trying to find scum through speech patterns? Speech patterns are developed by an individual, and aren't alignment indicative, what you probably are looking for is hiccups in those, things that stand out because someone is lying, or nervous or what have you. Again, seems condension, along with an explanation of what he's trying to do, but I don't feel like I come away with a clear idea of it.

Oh, and also, based on the game so far, I will probably never lynch Jodaxq ever...

This just is awful and pings me so hard. I don't know Paradise, so I'll have to assume it's VI ... But it's VI or a scum indicator at this point. I don't see town saying without a doubt at this point, I'll never lynch someone. The fact that he also then went ahead and couched it with "probably" and "based on the game so far" just seems weird.

I actually mean mathBlade is scummiest in the actives although like I said everyone who talked has some form of town points, just some more than others. I am voting Bory because he is inactive thus having 0 town points, less than MathBlade. I fos MathBlade solely on the fact that as soon as he came, he already had two foses right up... There was literally only one page (troll votes too) and somehow he came up with two foses magically. I know for a fact I am town, and based on my reads, no one was scummy enough to be called out upon that early in the game unless it was for reactions, but it does’nt seem like it. To summarize it, I fos him because at that point, I found it weird he already had foses that quickly considering we had nothing much to go on.

This is where I think he really over explains things, and I agree I don't come out of it knowing what he's saying. It looks like he's talking just to talk.

I voted Chip just because he voted me posts are incoming!

OMGUS much?

[aphix]

Also, voting for people purely on the purpose of them not being here ... In general isn't that helpful. This early in the game, it's a super safe vote. It doesn't provide anything to advance the game. It doesn't give away anything really alignment indicative of the person doing it. So it's just a really easy place for scum to sit and hide in. I mean, lynching lurkers and active lurkers certainly has it's place, but really not a few pages in on the second RL day of the game.

[Paradise]

Stop taking things out of context. I said I will find scum through speech patterns. I never said I found anyone or even expected to find anythign that early. I just explained how I play the game. So far, I townread Jo like crazy and if he keeps this up, I will never lynch him, that’s why I said based on the game SO FAR. Reads can change anytime, you just need one line to mess yourself up. And at least, I have a realy good and legit reason as to why I fos MathBlade. I do not see myself overexplaining, others talk even more than me so I do not know if we are even in the same game. I omgused based solely on the fact his reason is half-assed and I feel that real town would never fos me here. Be honest, would you fos me for the reason he stated?

[Paradise]

I should start quoting and stuff. I feel very untidy xd

[sheepsaysmeep]

Stop taking things out of context. I said I will find scum through speech patterns. I never said I found anyone or even expected to find anythign that early. I just explained how I play the game. So far, I townread Jo like crazy and if he keeps this up, I will never lynch him, that’s why I said based on the game SO FAR. Reads can change anytime, you just need one line to mess yourself up. And at least, I have a realy good and legit reason as to why I fos MathBlade. I do not see myself overexplaining, others talk even more than me so I do not know if we are even in the same game. I omgused based solely on the fact his reason is half-assed and I feel that real town would never fos me here. Be honest, would you fos me for the reason he stated?

speech patterns alone really don't get you very far with scumhunting
will get a longer post in after lunch

[aphix]

I don't think his reason is half assed at all. Considering I've stated that's one of the reasons I'm voting you I'm not even sure why you would ask me if I would FoS you for the reason he stated. Well the answer is no, but I'd vote you over it. So you say you have a really good reason for FoSing MathBlade, but you still think based purely on chance that your vote on Bory is more likely to be scum?

Also all of post 85 is all explainining. Add that to the fact that it looks like you tell me that I have no reason to even FoS you ... So if that's the case me jumping on a Paradise wagon should probably be scummier then Chip Butty who at least gave a reason ... And you still vote him over me?

[Bory]

Is there any reason somebody would legitimately want to? I would have assumed if you've got them you should be making most of your night actions.

I don't think there any reasons at all, I can think out only 1 example:
When there is just 1 maf left and there is a jailor in game and there are no deaths in game, the jailed person becames very suspectios. So mafia can theoretically want to not kill, forcing jailor to reveal his name and to say that "person A was jailed with no maf kills" making, hopefully, person A lynched and opening a possibility of attacking revealed jailor next night.

[Paradise]

Alright, I’ll change my style of play. I will not explain things anymore. It’s cool

[sheepsaysmeep]

Is there any reason somebody would legitimately want to? I would have assumed if you've got them you should be making most of your night actions.

I don't think there any reasons at all, I can think out only 1 example:
When there is just 1 maf left and there is a jailor in game and there are no deaths in game, the jailed person becames very suspectios. So mafia can theoretically want to not kill, forcing jailor to reveal his name and to say that "person A was jailed with no maf kills" making, hopefully, person A lynched and opening a possibility of attacking revealed jailor next night.

hi i see you still exist
reads please?

[James Brafin]

Hey! I'm James Brafin, and it's a pleasure to meet you all! Sorry I missed RVS; I was having some posting issues.
I'm kind of a new casual player, but don't let that fool you; I'm heavily invested in the meta, especially Fallacy ad Gambit stuff. I'm working on memorizing them all right now.
Now, to get things underway:

VOTE: Jodaxq
It seems to me like he's walling and isn't making a lot of sense to me. A pretty heavy scumread.

[James Brafin]

As a matter of fact, from top to bottom, here's who I feel is most town-aligned:

Achamian
sheepsaysmeep
Chip Butty
MathBlade
Bory
aphix
Jodaxq
Paradise

Also, I have a fallacy incoming:

APPEAL TO EMOTION

An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you lynch me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust.

Unvote me sheep, you can't vote out the most handsome person out yet... Who will you guys look up to?

This, if I am correct, is a mild Appeal to Emotion being passed off as a joke post in RVS.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Paradise

I'm pretty sure there's a few more in here somewhere, but I'm going to have to sift them later to get answers.

[James Brafin]

But anyways, if I had to guess, I'd put our scumteam on Jodaxq and Paradise. They've both done a good job of avoiding association with one another, but at the same time, most of their posts seem to be flawed to me... I need to go in and do a full-blown Fallacy Sift on them before I go any further however.

Also, if anyone is curious to my reasoning, I have a theory that the more Fallacy and Anti-Town Gambits (ATG) a player uses, the more likely they are scum.

[Jodaxq]

Hello Bory and James Brafin. It's good to see you all made it here.

My early walls of text were the truth and I'm willing to explain anything specific in more detail if you'd like.

I'm surprised at the heavy suspicion towards Paradise. I agree he has a lot of flawed posts and seems to be flailing a bit, but I personally view it as a truly new player who is eager to share his thoughts but hasn't quite found the proper filter for them. Aphix's post moved the needle a tiny bit for me, but I think it exposed Paradise's lack of confidence in his reads that were exposed rather than any scummy behavior. If he's not actually a new player to mafia, then I can see his actions as more scummy.

[James Brafin]

Alright. I'm going to do a full sift this evening, but for now I haven't enough to ask. But Paradise is REALLY smelling to me. A fallacy that early seems really shady to me.

[aphix]

I'll say, fallacies aren't really a scum tell by itself. Human thought and discussion is full of fallacies. I don't feel that first post about can't vote out the most handsome is something to read into at all. NOw 90 screams to me a big old attempt at AtE.

[James Brafin]

I know. But that early and that blatant? Really suspicious to me.

[James Brafin]

And you are right, 90 IS AtE! Very much so. And it seems to have a CFK feel to it as well.