Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)

[Mafiaplayer]

1)The Cat Herder seems like an early bandwagon victim, seems pretty town.
2)No, but it isn't anti-town behavior either, it's just behavior.
3)Yes.

[XReyoX]

MP, do you realized that cat has only made a total of 2 posts?

vote: Fat_Tony

for being a cartoon mafia guy

unvote Vote: Mafiaplayer

for not being all to bright

[Mafiaplayer]

Hey, wait a minute, I didn't notice the Cat Herder votin me!

[b]Unvote, Vote: the cat herder[/b]

[XReyoX]

...wth

[jerubbaal]

If we can substantiate that MP's stupidity is even possibly intentional, I think we should lynch him, just for the incredibly high value of the lynch. Also, if he's being deliberately stupid, that entirely invalidates my point about him knowing the townsperson thing. At the moment, I'm pretty sure that he's aware of his stupidity, even if he denies it.

Have you not learned from last game? I act stupid, I wind up getting lynched, townies lose game. Can't you folks learn?

If you know you're acting stupid MP, just shut up and let the people who want to play the game play the game. Either take this game fairly seriously or do us all a favor and replace out.

I hate value lynches, because they almost never tell us anything about who might be scum, but I might be willing to make an exception here. I'm going to do some work combing over MP's posting history and see if I can convince myself he's being deliberate about this. Honestly, he needs to die sometime, and the mafia's not going to do the job for us here, and I'd rather spend a lynch on an informationless day 1 then a lynch sometime down the road when we have more solid leads.

[jerubbaal]

Looked over MP's short meta (you all should as well, to substantiate this), and I'm convinced that it's rather possible that MP is just screwing around here. He has at least indicated that he has played mafia on other sites before, and that in and of itself dismisses him from being a complete idiot newb. It's looking better as a value lynch, even if he ends up being town. At his best, he has approximately the value of a malicious neutral, and does nothing to further our ability to win the game. Anyhow, if we keep berating him, maybe he'll get sick of it.

I know we can't force him to replace out, but is there any sort of probation list where Mods can decline to allow a player to play in their games? I honestly would be extremely unhappy to ever end up in a game with MP again, and quite honestly, would probably replace out. We're going to have to either waste a lynch on him or just deal with him messing up the game the whole way. Destructor, if there is any reasonable way we can consider getting MP out of this game, without violating any rules, could you please consider it?


Anyhow, on to other players. Did a read through, and I'm finding thephantom's very small contribution to the game quite suspect, especially his last post:

Hey guys, sorry that I haven't been very active in the game since my last posts, Midterms are coming up and I have a lot of studying to do so I am sorry, I have been reading over the thread though and I feel that it is possible that Mafiaplayer isn't scum and maybe he is just playing poorly. That does not rule out my suspicion of him though.

He's basically saying "MP might be scum and he might not." Woo, insight. This is a very typical early scum move towards a developing stupid newbie train.

[Incognito]

I disagree with having Mafiaplayer replaced out just on the basis of his playstyle. There are many players on this site who have generally anti-town playstyles who still play all the time. wank, Flameaxe, ryan (although I think he was perma-banned recently), Adel, and Battle Mage just to name a few. In our game it basically comes down to do you believe Mafiaplayer's role claim or do you think he's scum? No matter what alignment he is, he's obviously unhelpful for his faction but that's really not a solid enough reason to lynch him for.

The only way I would support a Day 1 Mafiaplayer lynch is if we absolutely can't decide on a good lynch candidate, and we're getting dangerously close to deadline. Right now though as I've stated before, I'm looking at all of his actions as null-tells. If he's scum, he'll probably eventually out himself anyway by doing something even more anti-town than we've seen thus far.

[jerubbaal]

It's not just his "playstyle," if he's deliberately messing up the game, I am interested in having him gone. If we have something better to go on, I happily lynch someone with a higher likelihood of being scum, but MP's presence in this game is decidedly detrimental to the town, and I for one would consider our chances of winning rather slim if this game runs long and MP is still alive. The order of the day is still scumhunting, but the decision we have to make today is the decision which helps the town the most. If we don't have any very strong tells, it's hard to argue that eliminating him would not be immensely helpful.

I have played with Adel before, and comparing her to mafiaplayer is entirely off (have read snippets of the others, and this statement holds for those readings as well). Adel's playstyle rubs a lot of people wrong, because she deliberately withholds her methods (amongst other things) and is fond of gambits, but there is a definite method to her madness. I can see no method to mafiaplayer's madness other than the screw with the players as much as possible. It really does seem like he is deliberately spouting confused logic into the thread.

Mafiaplayer, would you mind linking us to some past games, or even just mention the sites which you played on (and the nick, if it was different)?


Responses from other notable scummies, esp. Near and thephantom, is required as well. You can't duck beneath this MP mess.

[Mafiaplayer]

http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=10172.0
http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=11121.0

Also, to avoid confusion:I was previously called HelloWorld. Thus, this is what everyone in the threads referred to me as. Since, however, I changed my name to The Time Traveller, and that is what shows up as my name on each post.

Also, here were the rules/roles used:
http://mafia.ladympire.com/index.html

[Mafiaplayer]

Oh, I played on one other game, but I didn't get a chance to play because my power went out, getting me modkilled.

[destructor]

Destructor, if there is any reasonable way we can consider getting MP out of this game, without violating any rules, could you please consider it?

Again, I'll only replace a player if they break the rules, are inactive or ask for replacement.

[XReyoX]

mod:

Can we have MP's links to be removed? I think linking to other mafia sites is violating the general forum rules.

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Incognito: The differences between MP and the other players you've mentioned is that MP is deliberately trying to mess the game up. Although I agree that the other players have a scummy playstyle, they put efforts in their games and try to win. MP is doing the exact opposite. It just wanna draw our attention and provoke people to see how far it can go before we will lynch it or something.

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Having MP staying in the game gives no benefit to the town at all. In addition, I can imagine MP prematurely hammering people for reasons like " I feel like voting him. I think he was scum", "I just wanna see his alignment", "I messed up the code, I meant to vote for so and so"... but it probably will make reasons up that are unheard of.

I don't like value lynch as well because we don't get much information from it and the chance that MP is town is more likely (purely because no. of town> no. of scum). I think that people are giving too much credit for MP because of its awful playstyle. Acting like this in any situation doesn't prove MP to be town. For being so unpredictatable, it can be either. On top of that, if MP is a vig, I'm just saying as an example, it could be killing the most protown people with its power.

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Anyway, I agree that we should only lynch MP if we have no other worthy candidates to choose from on D1. However, as the game continues and every vote can potential be critical to the outcome, I have no objection on lynching MP later in the game if it keeps playing like this.

[destructor]

mod:

Can we have MP's links to be removed? I think linking to other mafia sites is violating the general forum rules.

Unsolicited links to Mafia specific sites are against the rules. I don't believe these links fit that description.

[Y]

Lynching MP can be good, because having him at endgame will be bad.

I'm still trying to get a feeling for everybody else. I have a candidate or two as scum, but not some one I'll lynch at the moment.

[Lowell]

MP is turning it aournd in my book. I won't vote for him at this time.

[XReyoX]

Lowell:
Could you please explain the theory behind the Y/Near scumteam? I don't seems to see it at the moment.

[Sammich]

I'm not voting for Mafiaplayer-yet. It's called good faith.
ReyoX can make all the fuss he wants, if he hasn't broken the rules he could simply post "I think ___ is a mudkip" over and over again.
Unless MP is 100% useless, I still don't like lynching somebody just because he's annoying.

Besides, at least he's sparking discussion.

[XReyoX]

Sammich:
I'm sorry if I've missed your answer somewhere. Why did you claim, why do you think that it was a good time to claim townie and what made you think you want to vouch for mafiaplayer because you are a townie.

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Sammich:
There is a difference between sparking useful discussion and useless discussion. Besides, in terms of usefully, I would give MP a negative. Thats why I want him to be replaced, not lynched.

[Lowell]

Lowell:
Could you please explain the theory behind the Y/Near scumteam? I don't seems to see it at the moment.

It seemed a little like Y was coaching Near a bit in his post. Again, this isn't exactly a smoking gun, but it's good enough.

As for the MP thing. I know I'm a sucker for WIFOM, but I just don't buy that he killed the vig during the night, then showed up and claimed not to know what was going on, calling a lot of attention to himself. I won't vote for him.

[XReyoX]

Lowell, I assume you're referring to this when you said Y and Near could be scumteam, right?

@ Near: We're all happy you're here, but could you add some of your own thoughts? It's your second post, and the second time you just vote some one due to some other player's reasons.

I see where that came from, but it is kind of one-sided IMO.

---

btw is it possible to have a SK or a cult in this game?

[Near]

I actually have a reputation? That's a new one on me.

didn't you get a newbie of the year award or something. or am i confusing you with someone else.

@Near - the "too townie" argument is completely crap. You're obviously OMGUSing (I wouldn't necessarily call that a scum tell for newbies all the time). You're still flailing about trying to find something to stick. This is pretty consistent with your MO thus far.

i'm not OMGUSing, really. my townie argument could be crap but that was the impression I got re-reading your posts. you are too logical you are too poised . i could be wrong.

flailing, i'm not. trying maybe too hard to convince you guys i'm not a scum, maybe. i think the best way to contribute and make myself look not suspicious is making a good effort at scum hunting - i re-read the posts already and i get some hunches but i have no good suspect i can back up with logic. give me some more time.

[Near]

Lowell:

It seemed a little like Y was coaching Near a bit in his post. Again, this isn't exactly a smoking gun, but it's good enough.

Can you cite the source?

[Incognito]

btw is it possible to have a SK or a cult in this game?

Judging from the opening scene, it seems unlikely that an SK exists in this game (unless there's a doctor or roleblocker present and he/she protected/roleblocked the right person). It looks like there's only one anti-town killing group, especially since we lost a town-aligned killing role in the vigilante. That might become more apparent eventually though if two bodies hit the ground tonight.

As for a cult, it doesn't seem like there's any evidence to indicate that there is one but again, it's impossible to tell right about now. Right now though, I'm hunting under the assumption that there's only one anti-town group until more information is received that suggests otherwise.

@Lowell:

I see what you're saying about Y/Near but it's impossible to make that kind of distinction unless we are positive of either Near's or Y's alignment. One could argue that Near could be your scum partner for following your vote on thephantom. The point is, with no info about anyone's alignment it becomes somewhat illogical to attempt to link people as potential partners. It might be worth a second look though if Near is today's lynch and does come up as scum.

[Lowell]

I think "subtle coaching" is a more common scum tactic than "let's do the same thing for the same reason!" If anything the latter is more likely a scum trying to curry favor with a townie.

[Incognito]

I predict Near's lynch in about three pages.