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[Aristophanes]

VC 5.2

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Lynching

Thor665

(2): Toranaga, Sergtacos

-- L-1

Not Voting

(3): Thor665, Chip Butty, havingfitz

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch

The day 5 deadline is in

: (expired on 2017-10-25 22:00:00)

Mod Notes

: Keep it fun!

[Chip Butty]

Toranaga is pushing the point that Mulch can't allow himself to be last Mafia standing because he would have to keep sending fruit to his NKs and would thereby out himself.

Okay

So, why no fruit n3? With 2 mafia remaining, he could send fruit and have his scumbuddy do the kill.

Unless his scumbuddy HAD to do something else that night. Like produce an expected track result. But Mulch giving fruit and Toranaga tracking leaves nobody to do the NK, so not appealing to Mulch-Toranaga scum team.

Solution to that problem: Mulch sends fruit to HEM (or doesn't send to anyone) and NKs him. Toranaga does his track/rolescan. D4 Toranaga fights Mulch for towncred, making sure to harp on about the fruit thing. Mulch self-destructs to avoid the same problem arising n5 and try to boost Toranaga's towncred.

So i don't think all this stuff Toranaga is spewing helps him, really.

[Toranaga]

Toranaga is pushing the point that Mulch can't allow himself to be last Mafia standing because he would have to keep sending fruit to his NKs and would thereby out himself.

Okay

So, why no fruit n3? With 2 mafia remaining, he could send fruit and have his scumbuddy do the kill.

Unless his scumbuddy HAD to do something else that night. Like produce an expected track result. But Mulch giving fruit and Toranaga tracking leaves nobody to do the NK, so not appealing to Mulch-Toranaga scum team.

Solution to that problem: Mulch sends fruit to HEM (or doesn't send to anyone) and NKs him. Toranaga does his track/rolescan. D4 Toranaga fights Mulch for towncred, making sure to harp on about the fruit thing. Mulch self-destructs to avoid the same problem arising n5 and try to boost Toranaga's towncred.

So i don't think all this stuff Toranaga is spewing helps him, really.

you're so bad.

I'm tracker, that's why mulch had to kill HEM. otherwise I could have track his scum buddy doing the NK and out him, that's why mulch visited HEM.

ROLESCANNER doesn't need to do anything on n3 because all the villager PRs were outed already you genius. 'spewing', you're the only one spewing. spewing BS.

[Toranaga]

the ONLY reason mulch was lynched was because of me. I was the one who outed he made no sense visiting HEM and why he did it, and got him lynched as a result.

[Toranaga]

god you guys are horrible

[Toranaga]

you wanna think mulch outed himself doing the HEM NK because on N3 - when all the village PRs were outed already - I felt the need to 'track' or 'rolescan' a vanilla townie player. you really want town to lose don't you chip.

[Toranaga]

I carried this town so far. mulch would never get lynched and would always win the game if it wasn't for me, and if thor is the last scum definitely he'd win the game with mulch. I've been screaming that skitter and mulch are scum since d2 and had the game down on d3 - as long as thor is scum - and nobody has any reason to be scumreading me at all. I've cleared town and pushed scum all game. I outed scum when everyone else was too clueless to understand what was going on. but sure chip, just fucking lynch me then, because you really want me to be scum so you're throwing away evidence that's hardclearing of my slot because of it.

I have already explained how this game doesn't even exist in MS if I'm a scum PR. look at other 13er normal games. look at the most recent 13er normal game with a goddamn scum fruit vendor - and guess who was the only player talking about scum fruit vendor, that's right, I was. this is the setup:

viewtopic.php?p=9158679#p9158679

villa:
ascetic
gunsmith
vig
2 shot tracker
6x vanilla

mafia:
loud fruit vendor
2x goon

4 town roles, 1 mafia fruit vendor + 2 mafia goon.

the setup here if I'm town:

miller
loyal cop
even gunsmith
odd tracker

vs

scum fruit vendor
2x mafia goon


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

now find me a game with 2 claimable roles for mafia vs 3 town roles, including one useless like miller. you will not find it because MS doesn't play anything that favors scum. because town in MS just destroys other town all the time e.g. still scumreading me on f5.

[Toranaga]

there, EXACTLY SAME SET UP, town had a full gunsmith and a vig, ascetic and 2x tracker while scum only had the loud fruit vendor. that game is actually much more town-favored than this one in case you believe my tracker claim. and the role mulch had was a carbon copy of that one, so guess what kind of set up you're playing here.

no but I'm 'spewing'. you're not clueless and just wants me to be scum nononono.

[Thor665]

I'm responding to what I think is relevant. I'm telling you exactly why fitz is cleared and you're pretending to not understand what the point is. you're even comparing it with you pushing skitter and "fail to understand the difference in the pushes", which is not only awful but seriously alignment indicative.

As far as I can tell I appear to fully understand your point, I'm just saying it's hypocritical and stupid to narrow your view - and I even shook my head and walked away from it.
So what are you still fake spewing about?

I'm not meta reading you. you wanna know why? because you asked me the same thing on d3 about mulch, I went through a bunch of his games, hard cased him based off meta, and you simply ignored it. and I'm especially not 'metaing' you because you think bussing is bad or whatever. In fact, if you're scum, then clearly you don't like to bus since you didn't even push mulch when he was mechanically outed.

SO because something worked for you - you now refuse to do it again because I, your most important reviewer ever, disagreed with you?
Whut?
That's stupid and illogical.
Are you lying or are you serious?
Because if serious...whut?

I think Fitz is scum because the Serg push on Mulch and the the Skitter push on Chip feel un bus like.

1. So POE based on your bus meter? That's it?
2. Why aren't you voting me?

1. I don't see how me ruling myself out affects my read on you or anyone else exactly. I am pretty sure everyone rules themselves out.
2. Because I'm not overly confident in my reads right now - wading through the bad play is extremely difficult at this stage. Between you not understanding when lylo happens, Toranaga feeling the need to do a twist case, Chip hard tunneling Toranaga and unable to talk anything else, and Serg hard lurking I've got very little to work with here.

[Thor665]

1. Oh, wait, I get it "bus meter" as in how I assess busses?
Yes - exactly that. That's how all tells are assessed, by the subjective analysis - what's surprising there?

[Toranaga]

unvote

thor, I'll meta you. not on what you think of bussing cause that's ridiculous. I'll meta you like I meta'd mulch.

[Toranaga]

I do need some things from you too:

1 - figure out I'm hardclear (mulch visited HEM, set up speculations, hard pushing wolves all game);
2 - figure out what mulch pushing fitz means on d3 and how that widely differentiates from you pushing skitter.

no reason to be obtuse about these things.

[Thor665]

Well, sure, ignore the blatant one and meta me on something no one has ever managed an accurate take on before,
I'll be over here squealing in glee.
Why are you ignoring my super powerful opinion about meta that shapes the way you game?

Pedit;

1. You're not, and I am also not voting you and have been defending you - so learn how to assess play.
2. Figure out in a world where I think Chip, Serg, and you are town I am left with few options and the realization that scum may have *gasp* distanced.

[Toranaga]

I am hardcleared thor. why else would mulch visit HEM? I'd do the NK and he'd send fruit to someone else. +, he tried very hard to lynch me on f7 and could have succeeded, that'd be three nights in a row sending 'fruit' to the NK until f3 for him. a very hard case to sell. there's no way scum!mulch and scum!me would come up with such an awful plan.

+ the setup. look at the goddamn setup for this game where I'm scum and figure out there's no way this game could be run on mafiascum. remember, I may not be a confirmed villager, but I am a confirmed power role due to my d2 claim.

and no, 'no one has ever managed an accurate take on before' doesn't mean I won't. according to mulch he was IMPOSSIBLE to tone read and I caught a bunch of glaring differences between his villa and wolf range - to the point where he was just obvious once I meta read him.

[Toranaga]

hm.

I think I noticed something.

[Toranaga]

finally found a good thor scum game, got lynched d2 and reacted a lot to pressure here:

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=67206&hilit=thor665

and here he also got lynched d2, but as a town mislynched

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68715&hilit=thor665

so those are good starting points.

a bunch of other town games if I wanna read them later:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=67451
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=68244

posting here for myself

[Toranaga]

thor, was that your last scum game? I'm excluding that one with a pair of scum and a pair of werewolves, that's a terrible game to analyze and your partner was dead when you subbed in. you seem to have gotten lynched because you 'don't bus' there.

one thing about your skitter push is that it particularly makes sense if you're setting yourself up as a lategame scum. it's a good push and I did get some townie;honest vibes from it reading it now, but since mulch was fruit vendor and couldn't endgame, and skitter made the terrible mistake of L-1'ing a player and then acting as if she 'missed' havo softclaimed before unvoting him (and only doing so when I unvoted him), I can see how optimal your push is as a scum partner, to get you deep in the game. also, it's extremely exploitable to be lock clearing you just because you pushed a wolf. there's a moment for everything, including bussing, and I'm sure an experienced player such as yourself understand it's merits and how it can get scum far in a game.

[Thor665]

If you ignore alts and rule out multiple scum games - sure, it could be.

[Toranaga]

okay

as it is, based off what I read and based off your ISO, you're the f5 lynch here definitely.

not only by POE, but I see a more analytical player with better mechanical understanding town!thor and a more reactive scum!thor. it's not enough for much, but from what I read of your games I assume town!thor would, at the very least, take mulch sending HEM fruit more seriously than 'derpy' and work out by himself that tacos wouldn't necessarily be a good lynch this gameday, instead of announcing a will to lynch tacos, followed by, also reactively, changing his lynch target from tacos to fitz based off work and points other people brought up. not that the last part is scummy, I'm simply assuming a more proactively town!thor position this gameday than all the coasting you're doing.

you can't be cleared on the skitter lynch because you 'don't bus'.

this and the last gameday you're playing pretty poorly. you're almost only reacting to my posts and not doing any work yourself. that's scummy and that's different from your normal game.

[Thor665]

you can't be cleared on the skitter lynch because you 'don't bus'.

I find that comical as a stance.

[Toranaga]

it's 'comically' exploitable

[Thor665]

I agree - though I think we disagree on who is doing the exploiting.

Your entire case on me is filled with 'buts' wherein you note I wouldn't do something 'but'
And that's why it's a weak case that can't be functionally discussed with you - because you're being blind and holding me to a different criteria than anyone else.

[Thor665]

Oh Thor doesn't bus...but
Oh lots of people were not swayed by my meta case including Thor...but
Oh Thor helped lynch a scum...but
Oh multiple people including Thor were attacked by flipped scum...but

And on and on.

After I flip town which of your solid town reads is the weakest to you and why?

[Toranaga]

tacos would be my weakest because he did write wolfy stuff (especially wrt porkens lynch), and he is definitely not playing up to his normal aids-y town meta. he is not playing this gameday and is slanking hard. I don't like his vote on me but everyone is scumreading me one way or the other so IDK if that holds any weight.

it would be the case where mulch would set himself up to be eventually flipped and tacos would bus him the entire game. with great tone in the interactions, sure, but still.

I stand by that d3 stuff with fitz being clearing of his slot. mulch did not play to endgame this at all, and I'm sure he knew that. he wouldn't bus for credit on d3 after skitter flipped because he'd be eventually outed anyway.

I guess chip butty deserves me meta reading him but I do find his overrall behaviour townie in his own awful chip butty way. it does need re-eval at any f3 though.

[Aristophanes]

Doot?