Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]

[Papa Zito]

a lot of your reasoning on how my posts make me chip's partner come off as if you already started with the perspective of me being chip's partner and then used that to explain how my posts made sense in that context, rather than starting from a neutral context.

This isn't true in the least.

If you want to live past today I'd suggest you start actually doing some work instead of trying to pick fights with Extremely Likely Townies.

[Micc]

I had a post mostly written up and then got pulled away from the computer, but yeah 650 is good posting.

[northsidegal]

a lot of your reasoning on how my posts make me chip's partner come off as if you already started with the perspective of me being chip's partner and then used that to explain how my posts made sense in that context, rather than starting from a neutral context.

This isn't true in the least.

If you want to live past today I'd suggest you start actually doing some work instead of trying to pick fights with Extremely Likely Townies.

why does it matter to you, don't you think i'm scum anyways? i'm not trying to pick a fight with micc, i'm asking him to explain his reasoning on something i disagree on.

if you'd like me to make an analysis on chip's day one interactions i planned to anyways, maybe just give me a bit more time than a couple hours after the start of the day.

[UC Voyager]

I thought it was possible Papa Zito would so that, but this early!?! It just wouldn't make since. you do that if there is no way to avoid loosing a scum buddy...

[Papa Zito]

why does it matter to you, don't you think i'm scum anyways?

I want you to prove me wrong. And Micc is the last person you should be worrying about.

[UC Voyager]

VOTE: NSG

ya. her reaction to the hamer was scummy as hell plus the fact she wasn't voting for Chip....

[UC Voyager]

wait. lemme make sure i didn't hammer there....that would suck.....i dont want to end the day this early

[UC Voyager]

im pretty sure i didn't though

[UC Voyager]

l-1! please dont hammer. i mean. this goes with out saying, but it is always good to Say it when you put some one at l-1

[northsidegal]

why does it matter to you, don't you think i'm scum anyways?

I want you to prove me wrong. And Micc is the last person you should be worrying about.

i think it makes sense that i should try to make sure that the people that i townread read me correctly. i'll do the chip iso tomorrow, when i have more time.

VOTE: NSG

ya. her reaction to the hamer was scummy as hell plus the fact she wasn't voting for Chip....

explain this - how was my reaction to the hammer scummy? i echoed the same sentiment that our conftown did, that in this setup lynches are less punishing to town because of the stump mechanic and the lack of an immediate nightkill.

[Micc]

a lot of your reasoning on how my posts make me chip's partner come off as if you already started with the perspective of me being chip's partner and then used that to explain how my posts made sense in that context, rather than starting from a neutral context.

This isn't true in the least.

If you want to live past today I'd suggest you start actually doing some work instead of trying to pick fights with Extremely Likely Townies.

why does it matter to you, don't you think i'm scum anyways? i'm not trying to pick a fight with micc, i'm asking him to explain his reasoning on something i disagree on.

if you'd like me to make an analysis on chip's day one interactions i planned to anyways, maybe just give me a bit more time than a couple hours after the start of the day.

I don't know what there is to explain. I quoted a bunch of posts and gave the reasoning behind why I think they point to you being scum with Chip. I've given my burden of proof. Now it's up to you explain why you disagree.

[UC Voyager]

why does it matter to you, don't you think i'm scum anyways?

I want you to prove me wrong. And Micc is the last person you should be worrying about.

i think it makes sense that i should try to make sure that the people that i townread read me correctly. i'll do the chip iso tomorrow, when i have more time.

VOTE: NSG

ya. her reaction to the hamer was scummy as hell plus the fact she wasn't voting for Chip....

explain this - how was my reaction to the hammer scummy? i echoed the same sentiment that our conftown did, that in this setup lynches are less punishing to town because of the stump mechanic and the lack of an immediate nightkill.

oh.......i just reread and you didn't react the way i remembered, i could have sworn you made a big deal about the fact it was a lolhammer, or something. turns out, you didn't. that was my mistake
UNVOTE:

[Micc]

UC, what are your thoughts on the northsidegal interactions with Chip that I quoted?

[UC Voyager]

UC, what are your thoughts on the northsidegal interactions with Chip that I quoted?

after reading them, they do look scummy. The fact she got onto the wagon,but pulled off! plus the fact she agreed with him seemed like subtle scum talk.

[Papa Zito]

UC who did you think was Chip's partner before Micc made that post?

[UC Voyager]

UC who did you think was Chip's partner before Micc made that post?

I was still trying to piece that together. Im not the most sure. my best bet if it isn't NSG, I think it is BTD6......he also wasn't on the chip wagon.

We got several weeks to put this together as cabd said. no reason to be trying to hammer this early. i want to look into a Papa Zito case. i doubt i will find hard evidence to why he is scum, but i do want to iso everyone and try to find something that would make them seem scummier.

[UC Voyager]

EDIT

I looked at Papa Zito's iso, and found nothing strange about his case like you guys said. He seemed to make decent points that were valid about how Chip was scum. He has a solid case on Chip. I can't see someone bussing that early, but i wouldn't put that out of someones capability.

[Papa Zito]

[quote="In post 665, UC Voyager"I think it is BTD6......he also wasn't on the chip wagon.[/quote]
Is there anything else with BTD6 that points that way other than being off the wagon?

[Papa Zito]

welp

[UC Voyager]

I will look at his case and see if there is anything other than the fact he didn't vote chip that would point him to being scum!

[Micc]

So by my count we need 2 more votes for a northsidegal hammer.

[UC Voyager]

im not currently voting there. i want to iso someone else and see what it looks like

[BTD6_maker]

Still upset at my lolhammer?

Yep. Zitos case made no sense. I'm glad we got scum but it should have been because of something that made sense. I respect Zitos gut reads now, I'll just ignore his logic lol. Also mad that you did nothing to discuss anyone D1 Cabd; and that you hammered without discussion.

What are the chances of scum bussing D1? I'm feeling like that's pretty low but it would explain why Papas case made no sense.

I mostly agree with this. I have already explained why I disagree with Zito's case. However, assume Zito is scum. Zito of course would know that they are bussing, but so would Chip. If Zito made a very weak case and Chip knows that they want a bus on themselves, they would likely not rebut Zito's case in a way that exposes it completely. So why did they do it? Of course, it could simply be what they think they would do if Town, which is simply defend. Another possibility is that Chip rebutting all of Zito's points is a signal to stop bussing, or perhaps a signal that they should start cross-bussing. Overall, though, I think a bus is pretty unlikely here, so I think Zito is likely Town. They are a moderate Townread of mine now. That said, I still think they are bad Town.

Similarly, Cabd is confirmed Town but I think they made the wrong decision to hammer, even though Chip flipped scum. It seems like Cabd took a gamble and happened to get lucky. I would say that Cabd is also bad Town.

I seem to be calling a lot of people bad Town. This is probably true. People generally have a range of cognitive biases (unless they actively try to oppose them, but there are generally still biases even then) so I can see elements of bad Town in many people. In the past, I certainly was bad Town quite a lot. Even now I probably still have many undetected biases. The main reason why I noticed that there are a lot of bad Town is that I seemed to find that the probability that an average Townie's scumread is correct is significantly less than the probability the Townie gives to their read.

[UC Voyager]

here is my case on BTD6 maaker. he seems a lot more scummy then NSG!

Spoiler: BTD6 case

Nopes again. You don't get to ask questions while blowing off questions from others. You haven't contributed anything except that naked vote on BTD. How am i supposed to townread you based on that?

So here's your problem my friend. You've casually insinuated a few times now that my actions are "scummy" without actually giving any backing to the claim. And I've given you ample opportunity to do so. Just to be clear, I'm not asking so you can convince

me

, I know what my alignment is! But if you actually well and truly believe that I'm doing vague and mysterious scummy things then your reaction should include things like:

1. Voting me
2. Asking others to vote me; pushing a wagon
3. Pressuring me into answering questions
4. Examining my iso and voting history in detail
5. Putting forth a case

My issue is that you've done none of these things. Instead what you've done is:

1. Throw shade at my slot
2. Complain about my behavior
3. Refuse to explain basically anything

I came in with a pretty strong scumread on your slot, so when you presented the opportunity to engage I took it and you've failed spectacularly. Nothing you've done in reaction to me has been townie. Instead you've tried to take advantage of my nonstandard behavior by throwing shade to erode the townpoints my predecessor gained without actually committing to it with a vote or writing down a stance I could debunk. Doing that would pin you down into a 1-on-1 that you're not sure you want because you don't know how good a player I am or how good my reads happen to be.

@Micc:

Are you done with BTD or do you still have things to hash out with that slot?

The thread is in danger of collapsing under the weight of the irony of this post alone. This is from a guy whose own "push" on BTD comprised a single naked vote.

I am reading what Chip Butty has to say about Papa Zito.

I can certainly see the hypocrisy of Papa Zito here, naked voting me and then making this case against you. However, what I am wondering is this: do you think that this hypocrisy in itself is scummy?

I am thinking that if Papa Zito really were scum, they would be aware that they are naked voting me to wagon me. Bearing this in mind, they may think that they themselves will be noticed if they try to dismiss your case as merely casting shade and complaining.

Now, if they were Town, it may be that they are blind to their own hypocrisy. This is psychological projection (essentially, "pot calling the kettle black") and is a common phenomenon. Of course, this means that they are bad Town, but in this case they are still Town.

This is why I would regard that Papa Zito post as being very bad, but slightly Townish rather than scummy. Of course, you didn't explicitly call it scummy but you seemed to imply it, hence why I am asking you.

You have said more about Papa Zito, which I will likely analyse in the morning.

defending Chip in this post. it looks like he was trying to take the pressure of Chip. moving it to Papa Zito.

I meant hedging in the sense that every read youve given has had the word "weak" attached to it.

How can you be avoiding confbias regarding reads you don't even have yet. Like as far as I can tell you havent read a single post made my northsidegal or Chip bitty or Sobeov/Zito slot. Can you say something about your read on them so far.

Every read I have given has the word "weak" attached to it because that accurately describes the strength of my read. The alternative would be to lie about the strength of my read. Do you think it is pro-Town to lie about the strength of your read?

I cannot be avoiding confbias regarding reads I don't even have yet. That would not make sense. However, I can certainly try to avoid confbias regarding the reads I do have.

You made a fair point about not reading Northsidegal, Chip Butty, or Sobolev/Zito. It is true that I haven't analysed any posts by them. That is what I will be doing.

he fails to read Chip. common scum move to not read their scum buddy. just in case they are lynched. if they scum read them, they will be called out for not voting them. If they town read them, they risk being called out for town reading a scum!

I hope that this does not become like Open 642. That was far too inactive and apathetic. It was great for me, because I was scum and the apathy led to two No Lynches, but of course I hope this game doesn't turn out like that.

Let's start with these:

Have you read the game?
Who do you want lynched today?

I have skimmed the game.

I cannot say I want any one person lynched at the moment. My reads are still very weak and flexible. I will be able to give a better answer later today, perhaps. I do have a very weak scumread on the CheekyTeeky slot, but that slot is being replaced and I will have to read the replacement.

I don't understand how these quotes line up. In one you say you don't want a state of apathy, in the next you say you've only skimmed the game and you ask, for the second time (not quoted part) if anyone has something for you to look at. To me this is asking for direction, when town don't want a state of apathy, they are proactive. You can't fear apathy and yet skim read the game asking for direction, that is very contridictory in intent. The only way I can see this lining up is if you're scum concerned about looking like you care about the game state and not wanting to give away too much with stronger reads or pushes, but looking for someone else's opinions to ride on to divert any blame from yourself.

I don't see any contradiction. Asking for direction was an attempt to avoid apathy, not cause it. When Town don't want a state of apathy, asking for direction can help to avoid that. It is not "very contradictory in intent".

Again, this post looks like another contradiction hunt. This would make your point look like it exposes scum when actually it does not do anything like that. Your "contradiction" is not a contradiction at all.

I have already explained why contradiction hunting benefits scum. If you were Town, you would be more likely to notice (after I have said it) that contradictions are not scum-indicative.

This is a weak-moderate scum read. It's the best vote for now.

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

at this point. NSG had made a case on cheekyteeky. HE votes her on a (moderate scum read)

VC 1.6

The flight is departing.

Leading Wagon:
BTD6_maker (3) - Hopkirk, Micc, Papa Zito
northsidegal (2) - UC Voyager, CheekyTeeky

Micc (1) - Cabd
CheekyTeeky (1) - northsidegal


Not Voting: BTD6_maker, Chip Butty

With 9 alive it will require 5 votes to achieve a lynch.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2017-10-29 19:07:10)

Mod notes:
CheekyTeeky has reclaimed their slot.
UC Voyager replaces TheThawClown! Welcome, UCV.

right here. both chip and BTD6 are not voting. as if neither of them had found a good miss lynch!

note

after Chip makes a case on papa zito, he says he will look into the Papa Zito case! following his scum buddy!

VOTE: BTD6_maker

[UC Voyager]

Still upset at my lolhammer?

Yep. Zitos case made no sense. I'm glad we got scum but it should have been because of something that made sense. I respect Zitos gut reads now, I'll just ignore his logic lol. Also mad that you did nothing to discuss anyone D1 Cabd; and that you hammered without discussion.

What are the chances of scum bussing D1? I'm feeling like that's pretty low but it would explain why Papas case made no sense.

I mostly agree with this. I have already explained why I disagree with Zito's case. However, assume Zito is scum. Zito of course would know that they are bussing, but so would Chip. If

Zito made a very weak case

and Chip knows that they want a bus on themselves, they would likely not rebut Zito's case in a way that exposes it completely. So why did they do it? Of course, it could simply be what they think they would do if Town, which is simply defend. Another possibility is that Chip rebutting all of Zito's points is a signal to stop bussing, or perhaps a signal that they should start cross-bussing. Overall, though, I think a bus is pretty unlikely here, so I think Zito is likely Town. They are a moderate Townread of mine now. That said, I still think they are bad Town.

Similarly, Cabd is confirmed Town but I think they made the wrong decision to hammer, even though Chip flipped scum. It seems like Cabd took a gamble and happened to get lucky. I would say that Cabd is also bad Town.

I seem to be calling a lot of people bad Town. This is probably true. People generally have a range of cognitive biases (unless they actively try to oppose them, but there are generally still biases even then) so I can see elements of bad Town in many people. In the past, I certainly was bad Town quite a lot. Even now I probably still have many undetected biases. The main reason why I noticed that there are a lot of bad Town is that I seemed to find that the probability that an average Townie's scumread is correct is significantly less than the probability the Townie gives to their read.

if i read this correctly, this says that Papa Zito made a weak case on Chip. i disagree. Papa Zito made a lot of good points. I think he had a solid case.