Mini Normal 1957: The Perfect LUV Game [Endgame]

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm not using durr to discredit, I'm using it to show how people are just mindlessly agreeing with it instead of doing their own work.

Then we're back to attacking the people who agree with the argument rather than the argument itself. At this point, you've tacitly admitted that you agree with my argument except you know you're town. See below.

As I said when I cast the vote, Derpy will refuse to join it despite not retracting his read of you. He'll gradually distance and attempt to use his "I don't vote Day One" strategy to survive tomorrow or revise his read of you if you don't get lynched. Derpy's even admitting to backing off as predicted.

Then vote Derpy?

I prefer to lynch you first. For reasons why:

Ah so the difference between my read of his motivations and yours is that you "know you're town". Please.

Sure

Any questions?

Can you simplify this, cause it doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Let's try it this way. The scum's fear of being exposed as scum (losing information advantage) is a greater loss than the town's fear of being incorrectly identified as scum. This is the basic axiom from which all theory is derived. From this we can derive, among other things, that scum have a vested interest in brief days. Any lynch is superior to their own, they control information, burn a day, etcetera. If you're town, opening the possibility of a hammer would require you to believe that all the scum are already on that wagon or that the target is scum. Would you like to present longform argument that you believed one of these two things? If so, please explain the Wossi-Derpy team. If not, making a gambit of it risks a day to gain information. This is obviously not an efficient trade for the town. This is why it's called anti-town behavior. This is why you always wagon it.

[Xiao Long]

Then we're back to attacking the people who agree with the argument rather than the argument itself. At this point, you've tacitly admitted that you agree with my argument except you know you're town.

This isn't attacking anyone, it's attacking the play of mindlessly going along with a weak case.

Any questions?

So because my read of what he's doing is different than yours you want to lynch me? Or are you saying something else? Can you just clearly state it?

Let's try it this way. The scum's fear of being exposed as scum (losing information advantage) is a greater loss than the town's fear of being incorrectly identified as scum. This is the basic axiom from which all theory is derived. From this we can derive, among other things, that scum have a vested interest in brief days. Any lynch is superior to their own, they control information, burn a day, etcetera. If you're town, opening the possibility of a hammer would require you to believe that all the scum are already on that wagon or that the target is scum. Would you like to present longform argument that you believed one of these two things? If so, please explain the Wossi-Derpy team. If not, making a gambit of it risks a day to gain information. This is obviously not an efficient trade for the town. This is why it's called anti-town behavior. This is why you always wagon it.

I think you're trying too hard here. I was fake hammering to gauge Wossi's reaction. That's literally it.

"If you're town, opening the possibility of a hammer would require you to believe that all the scum are already on that wagon or that the target is scum."
So you think scum will quick hammer at this point and be able to get away with it? Or do you find anyone who puts anyone at L-1 to be scummy? Or you just think anyone who fake hammers is scum? I don't get your logic here.

[Lord Gurgi]

The most you've done to refute my argument is to say that you only jokingly claimed scum once. Otherwise, you just attempt to divert to the people who agree with me. When I call you on that, you just say the case is weak. I'm confident in my read here.

Let's try it this way. The scum's fear of being exposed as scum (losing information advantage) is a greater loss than the town's fear of being incorrectly identified as scum. This is the basic axiom from which all theory is derived. From this we can derive, among other things, that scum have a vested interest in brief days. Any lynch is superior to their own, they control information, burn a day, etcetera. If you're town, opening the possibility of a hammer would require you to believe that all the scum are already on that wagon or that the target is scum. Would you like to present longform argument that you believed one of these two things? If so, please explain the Wossi-Derpy team. If not, making a gambit of it risks a day to gain information. This is obviously not an efficient trade for the town. This is why it's called anti-town behavior. This is why you always wagon it.

I think you're trying too hard here. I was fake hammering to gauge Wossi's reaction. That's literally it.

Awful defense. Your feelings are not material. Present some motive for your behavior that doesn't require me to adopt the a priori belief that you're town.

"If you're town, opening the possibility of a hammer would require you to believe that all the scum are already on that wagon or that the target is scum."
So you think scum will quick hammer at this point and be able to get away with it? Or do you find anyone who puts anyone at L-1 to be scummy? Or you just think anyone who fake hammers is scum? I don't get your logic here.

If you didn't think scum would hammer, why would you burn a day for that information rather than just lynch Wossi? If you think town would hammer, then it is not a gambit, but an attempt to lynch and hasten the day.

[Lord Gurgi]

If you think scum would hammer, why would you burn a day for that information rather than just lynch Wossi? If you think town would hammer, then it is not a gambit, but an attempt to lynch and hasten the day.

Fixed.

[Wossi]

If the whole point was to evoke some kind of "gotcha" moment with me, why would you do it when I was offline? I'm either actively reading, refreshing, and posting or not at all. You did your gambit while I was asleep and got everyone's reaction but mine. Why?

[Xiao Long]

I say the case of saying I'm scum because of my first post is weak, yes. Problem?

Present some motive for fake hammering? I just did lmao. I wanted Wossi's reaction. If I was lucky, I could have gotten other reactions as well. That didn't happen.

"If you didn't think scum would hammer, why would you burn a day for that information rather than just lynch Wossi? If you think town would hammer, then it is not a gambit, but an attempt to lynch and hasten the day."
What the fuck are you even talking about here? How did I burn a day by fake hammering? It's a FAKE HAMMER. As in, DOES NOT ACTUALLY COUNT AS A HAMMER.
I don't know where you're getting this "think town would hammer" thing from. You didn't answer any of my questions btw

[Xiao Long]

If the whole point was to evoke some kind of "gotcha" moment with me, why would you do it when I was offline? I'm either actively reading, refreshing, and posting or not at all. You did your gambit while I was asleep and got everyone's reaction but mine. Why?

I didn't know you were offline, I never check online status. I didn't really get anyone's reactions though because of Derpy doing what he did. If I did get some reactions from other people, that would have still been worth it. But now because of Derpy it ended up giving me pretty much nothing.

[Lord Gurgi]

Xiao Long: I have made my case against you and Derpy clearly and multiple times. I'm not going to keep restating it. You have both responded as predicted.

Let's get the rope folks.

[Xiao Long]

Still not going to answer my questions?

[Nauci]

I'm not using durr to discredit, I'm using it to show how people are just mindlessly agreeing with it instead of doing their own work.

Then we're back to attacking the people who agree with the argument rather than the argument itself. At this point, you've tacitly admitted that you agree with my argument except you know you're town. See below.

As I said when I cast the vote, Derpy will refuse to join it despite not retracting his read of you. He'll gradually distance and attempt to use his "I don't vote Day One" strategy to survive tomorrow or revise his read of you if you don't get lynched. Derpy's even admitting to backing off as predicted.

Then vote Derpy?

I prefer to lynch you first. For reasons why:

Ah so the difference between my read of his motivations and yours is that you "know you're town". Please.

Sure

Any questions?

Can you simplify this, cause it doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Let's try it this way. The scum's fear of being exposed as scum (losing information advantage) is a greater loss than the town's fear of being incorrectly identified as scum. This is the basic axiom from which all theory is derived. From this we can derive, among other things, that scum have a vested interest in brief days. Any lynch is superior to their own, they control information, burn a day, etcetera. If you're town, opening the possibility of a hammer would require you to believe that all the scum are already on that wagon or that the target is scum. Would you like to present longform argument that you believed one of these two things? If so, please explain the Wossi-Derpy team. If not, making a gambit of it risks a day to gain information. This is obviously not an efficient trade for the town. This is why it's called anti-town behavior. This is why you always wagon it.

Man you are really missing the point of a fake hammer gimmick it's actually painful to read

[Nauci]

If the whole point was to evoke some kind of "gotcha" moment with me, why would you do it when I was offline? I'm either actively reading, refreshing, and posting or not at all. You did your gambit while I was asleep and got everyone's reaction but mine. Why?

It's a forum, not live chat. If Derpy hadn't immediately post we could have waited for your reaction. What is this argument even?

[Nauci]

If the whole point was to evoke some kind of "gotcha" moment with me, why would you do it when I was offline? I'm either actively reading, refreshing, and posting or not at all. You did your gambit while I was asleep and got everyone's reaction but mine. Why?

I didn't know you were offline, I never check online status. I didn't really get anyone's reactions though because of Derpy doing what he did. If I did get some reactions from other people, that would have still been worth it. But now because of Derpy it ended up giving me pretty much nothing.

Not nothing. I gave it a 20% chance Derpy leaped in to make sure his co-scum didn't fall for the gambit. That's... Like 1/50th a crumb's worth of info.

[Nauci]

@leaf, Porkens, chickadee, dunk, wave, mumble, anime:

What are your thoughts on silly gambits?

[Porkens]

Silly Gambits? hmmmm...I don't think there are any silly gambits. I think a gambit, by town or scum, always has a noose in it somewhere. I think scum are more likely to play off a failed gambit as "silly"

[Apple Jack]

Xiao Long: I have made my case against you and Derpy clearly and multiple times. I'm not going to keep restating it. You have both responded as predicted.

Let's get the rope folks.

Vote wossi. He’s the only person getting rope today. If you are actually town stop derping. Wossi is caught

[Apple Jack]

Silly Gambits? hmmmm...I don't think there are any silly gambits. I think a gambit, by town or scum, always has a noose in it somewhere. I think scum are more likely to play off a failed gambit as "silly"

All gambits are silly.

[Lord Gurgi]

Xiao Long: I don't think your questions are made in good faith. I think they're (feeble) attempts to muddy the waters. I won't be answering them.

The Wossi wagon is stupid. If Derpy actually believed in it, he'd vote rather than continue to lie in wait to drop the hammer.

[Apple Jack]

The Wossi wagon is stupid. If Derpy actually believed in it, he'd vote rather than continue to lie in wait to drop the hammer.

I do believe in it but I’m sticking to my page 1 statement. It’s not a lie and it’s something I’ve done in multiple games including 1 completed. So take your lie accusation and shove it.

Wossi is confirmed scum. Your refusal is a scum claim.

Hey I’ve found the entire team

[Nauci]

Why didn't you hammer Wossi?

[Lord Gurgi]

"Lie in wait" is a phrase, not an accusation of falsehood.

There is no reason not to vote for "confirmed scum". Shoot coward, you'll only kill a man.

[Xiao Long]

If the whole point was to evoke some kind of "gotcha" moment with me, why would you do it when I was offline? I'm either actively reading, refreshing, and posting or not at all. You did your gambit while I was asleep and got everyone's reaction but mine. Why?

I didn't know you were offline, I never check online status. I didn't really get anyone's reactions though because of Derpy doing what he did. If I did get some reactions from other people, that would have still been worth it. But now because of Derpy it ended up giving me pretty much nothing.

Not nothing. I gave it a 20% chance Derpy leaped in to make sure his co-scum didn't fall for the gambit. That's... Like 1/50th a crumb's worth of info.

I was thinking that initially. Either way, his actions were scummy to me.

Xiao Long: I don't think your questions are made in good faith. I think they're (feeble) attempts to muddy the waters. I won't be answering them.

So when I question your argument about fake hammers because it doesn't make sense it's somehow muddying the waters, but you asking the ridiculous questions to begin with wasn't?
Cute.

[Apple Jack]

Why didn't you hammer Wossi?

I’ll vote at or near deadline to prevent a NL. I’ll probably hammer somebody if they are somebody I’m scum reading and people feel like the day has gone on long enough.

The one thing I’m not is a liar.

[Apple Jack]

There is no reason not to vote for "confirmed scum".

There is if me hammering makes me lose my integrity. I don’t lie. I’m not going to flush that down the drain even if it means we wait a couple of more days to lynch scum.

Have you missed the point I’m trying to make here? Town need to play better. Lying is something I personally can’t stand so I’m certainly not going to do it.

[Lord Gurgi]

The one thing I’m not is a liar.

Are you scum?

[Apple Jack]

No.