Mini 1959 - Protomen Blitz : Game Over

[drealmerz7]

RR being susp. as fuck with his lynch list guess he is state afterall ?

[TheFuzzylogic99]

At this point I think Xia is more likely part of the FOD faction or the State faction than the Dead . He could be part of the dead but I am heavily leaning to the former atm

[drealmerz7]

gork, I was pretty sure havo was FoD and I didn't really want to lynch FoD on D2, like I said, that's why I was "ehhh" at EoD about it

it was clear she was trying to keep me around, and vax too, and with the flip, yah, pretty clear they thought I'd be an ally going forth against the state

[Almost Chara]

i think the State wincon has to be removal of the dead. since it's not the TFoD's wincon, there has to be a faction that wins when the dead is gone.
expecting Varsoon to put in an 'everybody loses' scenario is possible but a little much, and even as i'm typing this is realize it would result in an awkward game situation as soon as a State member flips.

anyway.
Titus, everything is telling me dreal is town here. unless he's State with Xiao and came up with a convoluted redirect claim + hide the redirect, which makes little sense unless they thought it would be safer than a straight guilty on us.
either Xiao is lying for some other reason (i still think dreal is town) or he got ninja redirected.

regardless, we can win when the TFoD are all dead and i believe we have two more lynches to do it before we can't anymore.

i agree with 2113 but i think i said as much already.
i'm concerned with the possibility TFoD has three members, but that would mean lynching 3/4 of them in the first four days, unless we get lucky with protects. maybe my math is off, but that seems difficult. i'm still a little worried about it.
best move is to lynch Vax today, though.
~Chara

pedit: fuzzy, i don't see him flipping town. i think if he's anything though, he's state. mainly because of Vax.

[Reasonably Rational]

Can we not hammer Vax on accident? I think he's at l-2 or l-1 right now.

And I'm saying this as the person who sort of wanted him lynched more than anyone else did yesterday.

Titus: Can I get your support here on getting ACs claim please?

-Cerb

Pedit: drealmerz, my lynch list is based on those who I view as having a chance of being FoD. AC and you because of Xiaos action result not making sense, and Vax because the abilities he's claimed fit the flavor of dr. lights ally.

Yume is still potentially on that list too, especially since you told us that you would be told about any extra effects of the hood being created. Someone in that set of slots is lying about something.

Xiao isn't on the list because I, like Titus, just don't see him lying, at least not in this way, at this time were he FoD. He could just give another inno and be done with it.

[Yume]

@RR But why are you so sure they can win with us is what I'm asking.....

[Almost Chara]

i'll be gone for most of the day. Almost has my reads, though.

Gork: i'm not convinced you aren't State that's just doing a good job of being protown in searching for TFoD, but there's nothing i can really point to in your play to say why i'm bothered. Almost is townreading you hard so i'm trusting him, and it's difficult to see you as State with any group except dreal, which i'm not entertaining.
i don't know. i want to work with you, though hopefully the game just ends with this.
~Chara

[Yume]

@RR It's weird that you immediately assume that the State can win with us, especially given that you doubted the hell out of Crystal Gems - who could win with town- during SU2. Like, I don't even....

[Varsoon]

@ Vasoon

Can you verify that there were no mod error in the results for last night

As far as I am aware, I have not made any errors with the N2 actions/resolutions.

[drealmerz7]

ninja just makes sense considering my ability existing but also possible scum is just lying to try and get me lynched

[Xiao Long]

If I was going to lie about a result, I would have just faked a guilty on someone. The fuck is the use of a “fake redirect”? Someone knows what happened and is intentionally keeping it from us.

[drealmerz7]

I agree that is most likely

[Xiao Long]

Can anyone explain why my shit redirected?

vote Van

THis is such bullshit! Did you vote me because you think _I_ redirected you? My role is proven! You think im a fucking re-director on top of this? Why did you target AC if you think I'm scum?????? dreal didnt see any redirection and this is xiao's idea to not have to hand out any more "inno's" on anyone.

If you guys lynch me today before I can talk later tonight, make sure to kill xiao/fuzzy... MAYBE RR

No, I didn’t vote you cause I think you redirected me. I voted you because of this:

Van being teamed with Halo makes sense considering “The Good Doctor” made Protonman and Megan’s man, if that’s who Van really is.

And I investigated AC cause I also thought they might be scum.

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't care if they can win with us or not.

Our win con says we win when all of either faction is gone, with a deadline for each. Maybe they lose when we win. Who cares, what matters is that we win.

@Yume: I think it does make sense that both state and fod can win with town though, given how our win con is constructed. Also, I was frigging scum in SU2. It was in my best interest to make the town doubt you guys. In addition, there were no unusual details in our win condition in SU2 like there are here. There was plenty of reason to doubt you guys. In this game, we've been explicitly told we win when either faction is removed(with some caveats). That means we can not lose when either faction is removed unless it occurs after we have less than 6 remaining alive, in which case removing all tfod might mean only the state wins without town winning. It's possible that when we remove all tfod early, that state does not win, but again, that doesn't matter because WE win.

-Cerb

[Desperado]

And how can you be 100% sure the State wincon doesn't conflict with ours? Do you know something we don't?

zzzzz

read my posts bro

[Titus]

Can we not hammer Vax on accident? I think he's at l-2 or l-1 right now.

And I'm saying this as the person who sort of wanted him lynched more than anyone else did yesterday.

Titus: Can I get your support here on getting ACs claim please?

-Cerb

Pedit: drealmerz, my lynch list is based on those who I view as having a chance of being FoD. AC and you because of Xiaos action result not making sense, and Vax because the abilities he's claimed fit the flavor of dr. lights ally.

Yume is still potentially on that list too, especially since you told us that you would be told about any extra effects of the hood being created. Someone in that set of slots is lying about something.

Xiao isn't on the list because I, like Titus, just don't see him lying, at least not in this way, at this time were he FoD. He could just give another inno and be done with it.

No. I'm not helping you and Drealmerz rolefish. We have a near absolute dichotomy between Drealmerz and Xiao. AC's claim has zero relevance to the situation.

[Almost Chara]

ninja just makes sense considering my ability existing but also possible scum is just lying to try and get me lynched

Here's what *I* think: Xiao id The State and he -similar to RR- suspects either of us is TFoD. Giving an outright guilty on us makes him the lynch target when a mislynch occurs. However, claiming he got a result on Fuzzy (again) gives him leeway to escape the lynch for yet another day tomorrow, assuming the game doesn't end already if their kill is successful tonight.

What makes no sense at all is that he gets a result precisely one the same person he did yesterday. This could mean he had to "guess" Fuzzy was Town and didn't want to take additional risk clearing someone else lest they are NOT The Dead, but that seems unlikely since you did get a investigation was triggered last night.

However, even a ninja redirection would not make sense redirecting him to Fuzzy precisely, regardless of what alignment the hypothetical redirector is.

Both TFoD & TS want to fins the other one, so why redirect him to the one and only player he did claim a result on? And if they suspected he was going to target one of them why not direct him to a MOD CONFIRMED Townie, i.e. Titus?

If the director is Town though, the again they'd be redirecting Xiao to anyone BUT Titus/Fuzzy (i.e. to the one they feel more suspicious of or more confident in them being NOT The Dead).

The result itself makes no sense even if we do assume redirection shenanigans.

Update: As I was typing the above it hit me that moste redirecting actions does not get announced, meaning most mods would give a "Your Target is X" result rather than "NAME is X". IF a redirection did occur (and I'm not saying it did, but IF it did) then the redirector thought it was the case and was trying to trick Xiao into giving a new result on Fuzzy w/o knowing it. If Xiao had given a guilty today the redirector would have claimed they redirected him to Fuzzy and that would make them both guilty. So, either Fuzzy is really The Dead OR Xiao & Fuzzy are the same faction (most probably The State) and when Ciao got a result of The State on us he deduced his result was tampered with since he knows we're not a member of his own faction.

@Drealz: Do you now realize why I prefer to keep my moon logic confined to the hydra PT? I mean, give me more time and I will probably come up with more possibilities, and then I'd look like I'm leading everyone astray. This is probably why I get scum read often when I'm Town. especially by those who have little or no previous experience with me.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Our win con says we win when all of either faction is gone, with a deadline for each. Maybe they lose when we win. Who cares, what matters is that we win.

I totally understand the logic here, especially when playing for our second win con is equal to having lost 4 Townies so far and ni scum flips (i.e. we would be at a disadvantage). However, I thought to ask since we've been through similar situations before and various players have expressed they had a soft spot for the "Town aligned 3P faction" so to speak, and you were just that in Gistou. I even remember Mastina explicitly saying something along those sentiments in SU2, so it was better to ask.

OK, once again: We are NOT TFoD and our vote on Havo proves it (The same applied to everyone who voted Havo, actually). We are not The State either because we were made voteless on D1 by them (that's why I'm confident Gork is not The State either as of today), and we (more to it *I*) have been promoting the idea of playing for our 2nd win con from the word go. I'm only willing to go for the first one now that we already lynched TFoD, although -emotionally and ethically- it doesn't feel right, but I understand and have let the vote Chara put on Vax stay since I do think he is very likely TFoD too.

~A50

[Yume]

I don't care if they can win with us or not.

Our win con says we win when all of either faction is gone, with a deadline for each. Maybe they lose when we win. Who cares, what matters is that we win.

@Yume: I think it does make sense that both state and fod can win with town though, given how our win con is constructed. Also, I was frigging scum in SU2. It was in my best interest to make the town doubt you guys. In addition, there were no unusual details in our win condition in SU2 like there are here. There was plenty of reason to doubt you guys. In this game, we've been explicitly told we win when either faction is removed(with some caveats). That means we can not lose when either faction is removed unless it occurs after we have less than 6 remaining alive, in which case removing all tfod might mean only the state wins without town winning. It's possible that when we remove all tfod early, that state does not win, but again, that doesn't matter because WE win.

-Cerb

But the State could have some sort of thing which enables them to win without us. Did you consider that possibility? *yawn*

[Desperado]

But the State could have some sort of thing which enables them to win without us. Did you consider that possibility? *yawn*

that possibility is irrelevant because we know for certain that if we eliminate FOD it doesn't matter what the state does

[Almost Chara]

Like, why are we even discussing the "unknown" win con of The State when we are obviously going for our "eliminate TFoD" win con now? Can we please get back on track to decide on the lynch that is most likely to hit on TFoD?

~A50

[Desperado]

that was decided the minute havo flipped fod

its vax vax vax vax vax

[Desperado]

the problem is state has to protect FOD now

titus must be getting fed state lies in a hood by someone

no other explanation for her performance thus far

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, they could have an unknown win con wholly unrelated to the father of death or the number of town players alive. That's STILL irrelevant when deciding what the optimal play is for today. Unless you think it's likely the FoD has 3 members(and even then, it's still something worth considering), lynching the last member of the FoD today just gets us a win, period, regardless of what it does to all the other win conditions.

@Titus and A50: my concern is that A50 could have a defensive passive of some sort which prevented the investigation. That removes the choice between Xiao and drealmerz.

-Cerb

Pedit: unless you know the state wincon....there's no reason to think the state have to protect FoD?

[Yume]

But the State could have some sort of thing which enables them to win without us. Did you consider that possibility? *yawn*

that possibility is irrelevant because we know for certain that if we eliminate FOD it doesn't matter what the state does

How do you know that for certain?