Open 700: Donner Party - ENDGAME

[MathBlade]

Clearly you're not getting it or you're just not Town if you say it is circular so I will break it down premise by premise.

Premise 1: According to the setup there is a Town vig.
Premise 2: Almost50 says we need a good vig in the [town] block.
Premise 3: Notice the italics in the statement above. The italics are for emphasis.
Premise 4: At this point Almost is calling the vig bad in comparison to CommKnight who knows everything about the setup including who the scum are.

Premise 1-4 directly are based off what is written there. If you don't get premise 1-4 there is no way you're just gonna get it and are just going to have to accept it.

Premise 5 Almost50 was trying to build a town block. Reason: The block statement.
Premise 6 Almost50's block would include the vig.
Premise 7 based on sentence structure the block already had a bad vig.
Premise 8 the only way the block has a bad Town vig is if it is Almost50.

Rebuttal to counter : Almost50 offered to be lynched: Wifom

[MathBlade]

@northsidegal: You keep spewing jusnk all over, again and again.

1- First you do not understand but you claim it doesn't make sense. Then you say you managed to understand but it still doesn't make sense. Well, perhaps you need to check on your own definition of sense and/or readjust.

2- The Vig would not be OK getting lynched, but they would not be going after the one who suggested getting rid of all cannibals either. The one more likely to do so is the one who is most threatened by the concept, which I perceive to be the one who is working all alone.

3- Not all cannibals are scum, I agree. However ALL BLOODY SCUM ARE CANNIBALS. Now if you don't understand what I'm saying still you need not respond to me at all. Just vote me or ignore me. I'm not here to babysit you. If you do have a brain I suggest you use it.

4- Obviously I don't have evidence to your win con as I didn't get your role PM. Asking me to provide evidence to your win con being that of the SK is one of the silliest defences that could ever be made against the accusation. Reread point #2 in this response for more illustration (which will probably still make no sense to you).

In short, you need to push for my lynch today as hard as you can. If not; you had better kill me tonight (I initially typed "eat me" but realized it could be mistaken for an insult under the circumstances). If I'm still alive tomorrow I'm likely to keep pushing you, or -at the vfery least- grace you with more stuff that just "doesn't make sense at all" whether you understand them or not.

In the mean time...

VOTE: Transcend

for now.

Almost50 has northgal pegged as SK which I completely agree with and Almost50's ISO is littered with what the vig would be doing lololol.

So mafia killed Transcend so Porkens. Northgal is SK

Everyone else is Town. Keychain is dead mafia.

You're welcome.

i already said this before to a50 but the thing is i already know that i'm not the serial killer and so i already know that you're wrong on that account - given that i know you're wrong on one of the conclusions you've gathered from your starting point i myself can conclude that you're most likely wrong elsewhere. thus, i'm a bit more confident in my godel analysis.

If I'm still alive tomorrow which i doubt because i reckon both sk and mafia will kill me let's double team Keychain

With Transcend and Almost50 both suspecting Key I'm pretty damn certain Key was scum.

@havingfitz

Because Almost50 and Transcend have a townie intelligence quotient bigger than mine. Like I start scumreading them if they scumread too much Town. The fact two really good players agree on Keychain is something noteworthy.

And I am voting Porkens. If a VC doesn't show it I don't mind revoting or poking the mod.

good players can make mistakes - is this all you have to go on for keychain being scum?

Of course you as the SK would say you aren't the SK.

When the two players who I consider ultimately good end up dead post day one and they agree on Keychain scum the only thing that would change my mind is a mod flip.

[Porkens]

I'm on a sliver of 3g and my power is out. Model is fine, pm would be better. I agree the math wagon is shit.

I am vig.

Transcend would understand this, but he is in my belly. Level up kids.

[northsidegal]

Clearly you're not getting it or you're just not Town if you say it is circular so I will break it down premise by premise.

Premise 1: According to the setup there is a Town vig.
Premise 2: Almost50 says we need a good vig in the [town] block.
Premise 3: Notice the italics in the statement above. The italics are for emphasis.
Premise 4: At this point Almost is calling the vig bad in comparison to CommKnight who knows everything about the setup including who the scum are.

Premise 1-4 directly are based off what is written there. If you don't get premise 1-4 there is no way you're just gonna get it and are just going to have to accept it.

Premise 5 Almost50 was trying to build a town block. Reason: The block statement.
Premise 6 Almost50's block would include the vig.
Premise 7 based on sentence structure the block already had a bad vig.
Premise 8 the only way the block has a bad Town vig is if it is Almost50.

Rebuttal to counter : Almost50 offered to be lynched: Wifom

counterpoint to premise 5 - "block" is a general statement to refer to a group of people, especially in a mafia game. it doesn't necessarily imply intent of anything, or even specifically intent to form a "town block".
counterpoint to premise 7 - saying that we need a good vig this game doesn't necessarily imply that the game already has a bad vig. the statement is also easily interpreted as saying that "if town wants to win this game, the vigilante will have to be good". for example, if a baseball coach were to say "we're going to need some good players to win this year", it wouldn't necessarily be implying that the current players are bad - take it exactly how it is, merely saying that good players will be required to win. even in a mafia game, imagine the statement "we're going to need some good cop results if town wants to win this one", or "we need a good doctor if town is going to pull this off". neither necessarily imply that the speaker has some sort of information about the skill level of the pr, nor do they imply that the speaker is the role that they're discussing.

you're going to have to explain presmise 8 more if you want to convince me. what i assume you're trying to say in premise 8 is that "the only way a50 could confidently make the statement that the vig is bad is if he knew that he was the vig" - except i don't accept the previous premise (ie i don't accept that he was confidently making the statement that the vig is bad), and thus i can't accept this.

[MathBlade]

Premise 5: You're seriously arguing Almost50 wanted to form a "good block" with scum and Town in it? Really? Premise that town block is what Almost referred to stands.

Premise 7: Yes. It does. It is implied CommKnight is a good vig. Cannot have good without bad.
Hence Almost50 is a bad vig.

Premise 8 follows from premise 7.

[northsidegal]

Premise 7: Yes. It does. It is implied CommKnight is a good vig. Cannot have good without bad.
Hence Almost50 is a bad vig.

Premise 8 follows from premise 7.

not an acceptable response to what i was saying - i think anyone being honest with themselves should be able to see that.

[Gödel]

Godel. Before you ask others what they believe, share yours.

How about you also focus on other players since a lot of people are just sliding by today, I know my game sucks but I am a VT so whatever happens when I am lynched you will have wasted an entire day phase with letting them slide. The people I called out have posted a lot less than I have so maybe instead of just criticizing me actually do some scum hunting instead of just picking on the lowest hanging fruits! Like are you at all concerned about how crappy that math wagon is and how quickly it went to L-1. If you really are the vig you are a super crappy one!

Anyone not voting Porkens ask yourself the following:

If what Porkens did was really a vig crumb and really that obvious why is Porkens alive?

Here's a hint..Porkens isn't the vig.

Is this a counter-claim?

Are you even reading the game!?!?!

Anyone not voting Porkens ask yourself the following:

If what Porkens did was really a vig crumb and really that obvious why is Porkens alive?

Here's a hint..Porkens isn't the vig.

Is this a counter-claim?

Are you even reading? I said Almost is the vig.

It's not a counterclaim.

It is just raw confidence.

If you aren't going to counter-claim, then you have no real reason to dispute a claim.

By saying that Almost is the Vig, this either implies that you know something that we don't, or you're talking out of your ass, and I'm inclined to believe that it is the latter of the two.

VOTE: Math. That's L-1.

Again Are you even reading the game!?!?! He outlined his reasoning quite clearly.

VOTE: PM

Reason:
He joined the math wagon on very flimsy reasoning that indicates at the least he hasn't read the game and just wanted an excuse to jump on.
He was also one of the players that attacked UCV for the post about RVS, ultimately leading to the lynch.
Then there was the whole trans thing where he walked back his read so that if trans is lynched he can claim he warned us.

[CommKnight]

Vote Count 2.2

[0]

Not_Mafia

[0]

Assemblerotws

[0]

havingfitz

[0]

northsidegal

[1]

PMysterious

Gödel,
[3]

Gödel

northsidegal, havingfitz, Porkens,
[3]

MathBlade

Assemblerotws, Not_Mafia, PMysterious,
[1]

Porkens

MathBlade,

Note Voting:

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Day Ends:

(expired on 2017-11-24 16:00:00)

Mod Notes:

[Gödel]

Mod Notes:

Probing havingfitz.

Again?

[Porkens]

U make a point.

VOTE: pmsterious

[PMysterious]

I just started reading math's ISO, in hopes that I was proven wrong. I didn't like the math lynch myself, but like others said, I didn't read the conversation that much. I looked through and this is what I found.

I didn't say Almost50 was pushing your lynch and so you shot him. I said that's what happened with scum.

@northsidegal: Little lady (judging by the avatar no more), I'm good because I'm good and I don't need to convince you of it. I always have difficulties convincing newbies like yourself when they play with me the first time. Those who know me in this game are Transcend, Not_Mafia & PMysterious. I don't think I've played with anyone else before (unless someone is a secret alt), but that's irrelevant .. kind of.

What is relevant is this: You won't be lynching me today. Period. Try looking somewhere else as to not waste your time and effort. You may as well shoot me at night or wait for D2 to get your desired lynch through, but today I'm well out of your reach unless I myself allow it.

P.S. The above is the most arrogant declaration I have ever made in a Mafia game so far I think. Try to prove me wrong for future reference.

My notes got erased but mainly I'm pretty sure what Northgal either missed or pretended to miss and why Almost50 was killed. And well that's not...good.

so if that's not what you're saying, then what exactly are you saying here? your sentence is a little hard to understand. even more, it's not exactly a huge leap to look at you mentioning me possibly intentionally ignoring something and the reason why almost died in one sentence and to take it that you're implying i killed him.

I said it was a possibility. Not the likely probability. I still suspect you as being the SK. Group scum is a possibility but not as likely.

I was referring to almost50 being the vig most likely. There's a hugely blatant vig crumb there and I'd be very much surprised if anyone else is actually the town vig. Mainly I'm trying to ascertain whether you generally missed it or whether or not you're scum/SK and pretending. Especially when I suggested fear kills and then said "hey probably not that probably because they were the vig" despite me offering no reasoning why and most people on the site call my role spec crazy. (Although recently I've been on a streak with that. See the newbie game I recently IC'd and we lost because well newb town decided not to listen lol and I have to work on my influence skills)

You can't both say you missed the vig and say that's why A50 was killed in the same breath.

It's either A50 is a fear kill or A50 was killed for being the likely vig.

Clearly you're not getting it or you're just not Town if you say it is circular so I will break it down premise by premise.

Premise 1: According to the setup there is a Town vig.
Premise 2: Almost50 says we need a good vig in the [town] block.
Premise 3: Notice the italics in the statement above. The italics are for emphasis.
Premise 4: At this point Almost is calling the vig bad in comparison to CommKnight who knows everything about the setup including who the scum are.

Premise 1-4 directly are based off what is written there. If you don't get premise 1-4 there is no way you're just gonna get it and are just going to have to accept it.

Premise 5 Almost50 was trying to build a town block. Reason: The block statement.
Premise 6 Almost50's block would include the vig.
Premise 7 based on sentence structure the block already had a bad vig.
Premise 8 the only way the block has a bad Town vig is if it is Almost50.

Rebuttal to counter : Almost50 offered to be lynched: Wifom

The last post explains the reason he believes Almost 50 is Vig, and I actually am starting to believe him. However, there is also a massive inconsistency if Almost is indeed the Vig, that I would like to point out.

If Almost50 is the vig, then that would imply that Porkens killing Trans would be a scum kill, and he's saying it to point out he is a killer (which could very well be a blatant scumclaim, but I pray not because that would be awkward to explain.) If Porkens is Vig, then the claim would not only make sense, but also prove that Trans was indeed Town and I was wrong on that front, and for that, I would be thankful. Now before you get your pitchforks, I need to explain my line of thinking here.

For every wrong answer, there's a higher chance of getting the right answer, so when I make accusations, it's always in hope of being wrong until it reaches a point where the odds are a lot higher to be correct (or where it really matters, like LYLO), then I hope to be right. If I am right before that, that's great and I would be happy I was able to figure something out, but if not in the early stages like now, then it would be okay with me, as I know I'm not the best guesser or estimator. Anyway, let's get that vote off of Math.

UNVOTE:

I hope I have explained my line of thinking and the questions this brings to the table.

[havingfitz]

Because Almost50 and Transcend have a townie intelligence quotient bigger than mine. Like I start scumreading them if they scumread too much Town. The fact two really good players agree on Keychain is something noteworthy.

We don't know what the aligbments of A50 and Transcend were so their opinions aren't as valuable. And even if they were both town..."Good players" is subjective and everyone makes mistakes.
I townread Key.
I don't subscribe to your A50 vig claim theory.

[CommKnight]

Mod Notes:

Probing havingfitz.

Again?

Damn it, I thought I cleaned it up fully from my last post. No he isn't being prodded again. But I'm going to put it on the coals for next time and brand the next person that needs a prodding.

[Gödel]

Yeah sorry not buying it PM, you don't put someone at L-1 if you don't read the thread properly unless you don't care who gets lynched. Also just backing off as soon as you are pushed doesn't help either.

Fitz, not mafia and assembler care to comment on the Mathblade wagon?

@MOD I think you get to use it sooner than expected

[Porkens]

We shouldn't lynch until not maf and assembler are forced to post content.

[Gödel]

We shouldn't lynch until not maf and assembler are forced to post content.

agreed, they should get prodded soon

[CommKnight]

Not_Mafia & Assemblerotws have been prodded for a second time.

[Porkens]

VOTE: unvote

[Not_Mafia]

This is hard without glips

[Porkens]

Math assume I'm actually cig, trans was town, get in that headspace, and make a reads list

[Gödel]

This is hard without glips

car to actually contribute, and what is glips?

[PMysterious]

This is hard without glips

car to actually contribute, and what is glips?

A glip is a military term meaning to bomb a bridge, at least on Wikipedia. Mafia wise, its probably different. But yeah, we haven't heard anything from NotMafia or Assemble in a while, at least anything that can be seen as productive.

Anyway, to actually be productive, I'll give my reads and lynch list (for reference on future days).

Not_Mafia- Null- Not enough real evidence to suggest town or scum.
Assemblerotws- Null- Read Not_Mafia
havingfitz- Null (Not enough to go by to really say what the case here is. It will be determined over time.)
northsidegal- Town (I get a feel of charisma, and definitely looks at the game from a strong angle. It's like a lot of what north posts is commanding, and worth a strong read. Nothing really sticks out that makes him seem scummy either.)
Gödel- Null (While giving logical lines of reasoning, he also got a little overprotective when saying that he was "set up")
MathBlade- Null (Adamant that Porkens is not that vig, despite being un-CC'd as of now, and not counter-claiming himself.)
Porkens- Town (It's safe to assume he is the Vig, as he is un-CC'd at this point.)

Lynch list
Godel
Not_Mafia/Assemble
Math (after the read through)
havingfitz
Porkens
north

In that order, that would be my lynch list to who to lynch first to who to lynch last.

[havingfitz]

Fitz, not mafia and assembler care to comment on the Mathblade wagon?

It has 2 votes. Just like you and PM (when you asked). So why do you need comment on the Mathblade wagon? Has everyone else opined on Math's 2 vote wagon?

[Gödel]

Dude he went to L-1 in like a day, and to be honest I am just trying to get you to post, not a lot of content to get a read on.

[havingfitz]

Dude he went to L-1 in like a day, and to be honest I am just trying to get you to post, not a lot of content to get a read on.

I did replace in you know? Was my post 685 not revealing enough of my game mindset?