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[Flubbernugget]

Wicked, I don't like that the best you can come up with to vote wossi is looking all the way back to the beginning of the thread.

I'm not going to give him a free pass for something just because it happened early on. His explanation doesn't make sense. After what page number can I look for reasons to vote someone?

It's not about page numbers. It's that scum does more than one scummy thing, and giving early game reasoning the benefit of the doubt is usually a good thing to do.

[Sephiroth]

Wicked, I don't like that the best you can come up with to vote wossi is looking all the way back to the beginning of the thread.

I'm not going to give him a free pass for something just because it happened early on. His explanation doesn't make sense. After what page number can I look for reasons to vote someone?

It's not about page numbers. It's that scum does more than one scummy thing, and giving early game reasoning the benefit of the doubt is usually a good thing to do.

Say it louder for the people in the back!

[Lalendra]

Ah, 75% sure that sergetacos is scum. Sorry bud that I replaced.

K, why?

Through meta. I have a scumtell on him. Basically, he acts more jokes, never gives reasons, and throws his vote around too much as Town. This game he's giving reasons and vote parking. Probably scum

This is good info, because the last game I played with him where he was town he didn't take anything seriously and was cluttering up the thread with garbage. Interesting.

[Lalendra]

Why do I feel like you're scum here?

You just said you'd sheep wave?

It's lolmeta when it can't be talked about and no one can back up the meta read with anything in this game.

You're discrediting my read when you clearly haven't read the context and don't know what you're talking about.

I disagree about lolmeta, it could be completely valid and he just can't talk about it. I am on the fence though about how he can be so confident in his reads while also admitting he hasn't read the game lol

[Lalendra]

I don't think this is your towngame. You actually have your own opinions and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. I just got you to leave Flub and Serg with like no effort, and I don't know why you're being strangely stubborn about wossi. .

Wait, trying to appease people and not having your own opinions is towny in your book??

[Lalendra]

In post 373, Mulch wrote:
If I was scum right now I would be going in the mafia chat. Hope this can help peolle think I'm town.
This comment feels weird to me because it relies on the knowledge that scum have day chat. You went straight to the OP immediately after replacing in to check if scum had day talk?

uhh

I guess I assumed

Haven't read the OP actually

This feels sincere because it would have been too easy as scum to say "of course, that's the first thing I do when I replace in, doesn't everyone?"
Mulch is basically locktown for me at this point.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wossi:

Can you respond to my 500?

Wicked, I don't like that the best you can come up with to vote wossi is looking all the way back to the beginning of the thread.

I'm not going to give him a free pass for something just because it happened early on. His explanation doesn't make sense. After what page number can I look for reasons to vote someone?

It's not about page numbers. It's that scum does more than one scummy thing, and giving early game reasoning the benefit of the doubt is usually a good thing to do.

I disagree. Scum can certainly make mistakes in the early game, so to ignore it just because it happened early on is not reasonable. How can I give him the benefit of the doubt when he literally admitted to 'contradicting himself and making errors of judgment' ? I can't give that a free pass and am trying to figure out why he started off the game that way.

[skitter30]

I don't think this is your towngame. You actually have your own opinions and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. I just got you to leave Flub and Serg with like no effort, and I don't know why you're being strangely stubborn about wossi. .

Wait, trying to appease people and not having your own opinions is towny in your book??

I realized afterwards that this was phrased poorly. It should read:

I don't think this is your towngame. When you're town, you actually have your own opinion and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. In contrast, here, I just got you to leave Flubber and Serg with like no effort ...

[Wickedestjr]

Minus the comment about HEM (who I personally didn't have a strong opinion on either way), this is exactly how I feel about Mulch:

I don't really have a strong read on Mulch's play. I have a moderate residual townread on him from HEM's play but I don't feel like his play has been especially telling. I haven't played with him before but from the interactions I've had with him I'd expect things like his lolmeta reads (as skitter so eloquently puts it) and his opening post mentioning the scum pt, and even a lot of his policy-esque arguments to come from him as both town and scum. I imagine it's his town playstyle and if he's scum he's likely doing those things in order to emulate that style. Which honestly sounds kind of defeatist in that I'm not really sure how to read him. I'm open to being convinced. The one point that I'm the least sure what to make of is Wossi's claim that his meta is imaginary.

Maybe I'll check his meta for myself later, but I don't really see the case against Mulch.

@skitter:

One of your reasons for voting Mulch was because he seemed to be looking for mis-lynches that don't have much pushback. Did he do this when you were partners with him? Do you think he, as scum, is incapable of going after more difficult targets?

[Sephiroth]

@skitter:

One of your reasons for voting Mulch was because he seemed to be looking for mis-lynches that don't have much pushback. Did he do this when you were partners with him? Do you think he, as scum, is incapable of going after more difficult targets?

Its not just that. Its that he tried to make several policy lynches instead of actually reading players and trying to find scum tells. He's taking the path of least resistance in search of lynching pretty much whoever. Then when Skitter calls him on that and the see-through nature of his reads, he completely backtracks, lies that PoE is not a form of policy lynching, and basically just adopts whatever Skitter's opinion is on any reads that he disagreed with. Hes literally just trying to find any lynch that people will buy into and lied/backtracked when he got caught. I really don't see how ability to go after difficult targets enters into it. Going for easy lynches is the oldest scum tell in the book, why would he want to go for 'more difficult targets' and why would his unwillingness to do so be anything other than a scum tell?

[Sephiroth]

I disagree. Scum can certainly make mistakes in the early game, so to ignore it just because it happened early on is not reasonable. How can I give him the benefit of the doubt when he literally admitted to 'contradicting himself and making errors of judgment' ? I can't give that a free pass and am trying to figure out why he started off the game that way.

There's a difference between giving him a free pass and tunneling on them and refusing to look at other things going on. If you think that something he did on page two is a scum tell, good for you but I don't see how its possibly a big enough tell to be your primary focus. It just seems lazy given how far into the game we are, especially since its at best a very small tell more realistically (imo) completely null.

[Lalendra]

I don't think this is your towngame. You actually have your own opinions and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. I just got you to leave Flub and Serg with like no effort, and I don't know why you're being strangely stubborn about wossi. .

Wait, trying to appease people and not having your own opinions is towny in your book??

I realized afterwards that this was phrased poorly. It should read:

I don't think this is your towngame. When you're town, you actually have your own opinion and it doesn't look like you're trying to appease people. In contrast, here, I just got you to leave Flubber and Serg with like no effort ...

Okay that makes more sense.

[Wossi]

This is the point when I decided Skitter was town

Why is that?

And this is when wicked started looking really scummy. Taking quotes out of context smacks of ulterior motivation, and nothing quoted here warrants a L-2 vote

As for 324, I'm obviously not saying L-2 votes are scummy. It's just a lack of significant reasoning to justify putting someone close to lynch. And his quote from my post 34 was for sure taken out of context. I was responding to TwoInAMillion's confusion over Wavemode's claiming town vs. Flubber's claiming scum. None of that is clear from the quote Wicked chose to crop out of the full post.

Okay thank you for explaining that. I understand now that I may have taken that comment out of context. The way you worded it "You are what you say you are, if you say you're scum you're scum" makes it sound as if that's your own belief rather than you describing HEM's reason for voting Flubber. But I retract that point now.

As for putting you at L-2, I don't believe that there's any danger in L-2. The only danger is that someone might accidentally hammer, but it takes two votes to quick hammer someone from L-2. Plus I am generally active enough that I can un-vote when someone makes a terrible L-1 vote.

Because I thought either or both of you might be scum and I didn't want to say "Oh, I'm voting to apply pressure and get reactions!" because that kind of defeats the point.

I don't understand how people seriously thought I was making a serious accusation on page two. No one catches scum on page two.

This seems like a contradiction. If you were voting to apply pressure/get reactions and didn't want people to know that you were doing that, then why are you now expecting us to realize that you weren't making serious accusations? There was no reason to think that 40 and 70 weren't serious posts. In general, I'm having trouble believing that your Flubber/skitter attack was just a reaction test considering the way that you discredited Flubber's scum claim.

Unvote. Vote: Wossi

(L-3)

I think I would shoot Implosion.

Why would you shoot implosion instead of me?

Post 107 was the point where Skitter had done enough proactive and intelligent scum hunting that whatever initial first impressions I had about her had been reversed. Post 107 specifically was a concise point that I didn't notice in my reading, possibly others didn't notice in their reading, and I liked the fact that she pointed it out enough to quote it during my catch up. It obviously isn't her only town looking post.

I don't understand your all-or-nothing approach to scum reads. Of course I thought they were scummy, otherwise I wouldn't have been applying pressure or making reaction tests. Does that mean I was ready to lynch either on of them? Of course not. When I said serious accusation, I meant serious. Ready-to-lynch serious. 24 pages later, enough has happened that the fact that Flubber joked about being scum and I perceived Skitter as being over-defensive have become much less relevent. Neither of them are my top scum reads at the moment, that would be Mulch, Implosion, and Lalendra. So the fact that I'm scum reading Implosion more than you should answer your last question.

[skitter30]

@skitter: One of your reasons for voting Mulch was because he seemed to be looking for mis-lynches that don't have much pushback. Did he do this when you were partners with him? Do you think he, as scum, is incapable of going after more difficult targets?

Basically what seph said.

When he's town, he actually exhibits a natural thought process, and has pretty damn good reads. He doesn't just arbitrarily change his reads because someone gives him some pushback, and he can actually explain what he's thinking, and he doesn't just push lolpolicy lynches.

Just look at this replace-in where he was town: viewtopic.php?p=9470081#p9470081

Or this one: viewtopic.php?p=9423037#p9423037.

Do these look remotely similar to what he did here?

I think as scum he is *very* capable of going after harder targets. He's capable of doing that as town too. I don't know why he's going after the easy pushes here. This doesn't exactly match his scum game, but this is sooooo far off from how he plays town that I'm having a really hard time seeing town!Mulch here.

1946 I guess is the one loss in 15-1 and that was pretty much because of me because I'm *that* bad at scum, and I screwed up kinda badly on like page 6 and we spent the next two days trying to get me not lynched, and by then our associatives were god awful and he got lynched right after me.

He did try to redirect town to other shiny targets like hard lurker, but spent a lot of time trying to get himself into a mechanical 1v1 vs a town tracker (tor) with remarkably good reads to try to distract from how scummy me/him were. (ie that was an example of yes, he is capable of going after harder targets as scum).

I'm not really sure why whether or not he's pushed mislynches without much pushback in the past makes this any less of a universal scumtell. Like pushing easy lynches (on policy no less) is a hallmark of scumplay, as is changing your reads when someone gives you the smallest amount of pushback. Your last question in the quote above is really, really weird in this context. I can't articulate why exactly atm, but I'm going to continue trying to figure it out because it's really pinging me hard.

[Sergtacos]

VOTE: Skitter

Feels like she's trying too hard.

[skitter30]

I like really feel kind of shitty about unvoting Wossi. I still feel like his early game was really bad but I feel some trepidation based on his play around Mulch. But I think Chip is now in the position Wossi was in where I don't remember anything he's said at any point ever feeling especially genuine. That sentence is kind of still true of Wossi but he's made moves that I don't think are especially wise as scum, and that I don't think scum playing badly are necessarily likely to make. And it's a bit odd that Chip's wagon is stuck at two votes despite Mulch pushing it a little when I can't remember ever hearing any sentiment that he's town.

Unvote
VOTE: Chip Butty

I agree with you on Wossi. I very much dislike this vote on Chip.

VOTE: Skitter

Feels like she's trying too hard.

You very clearly have never played with town!me.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.9:

Mulch (5)

- Flubbernugget, Chip Butty, skitter30, Wossi, Sephiroth

Wossi (3)

- Lalendra, Wickedestjr, TwoInAMillion

Chip Butty (2)

- Mulch, implosion

Sergtacos (1)

- wavemode

skitter30 (1)

- Sergtacos

Not Voting (1)

- iDanyboy,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is at 3pm GMT on Sunday 26th November 2017 ((expired on 2017-11-26 15:00:00))

Wickedestjr is v/la.

Mod note: Please can we put votes on new lines. I keep missing votes.

[Sergtacos]

VOTE: Mulch he l-1.

[Sergtacos]

VOTE: skitter
not anymore

[Sephiroth]

VOTE: skitter
not anymore

OMG I hate playing with you.

[Sephiroth]

It seems a lot to me like you're just trolling the game at this point. I guess if your idea of playing is literally doing things at complete random, Skitters actual attempts to find scum must seem pretty 'tryhard'.

[Sergtacos]

mulch is town.

[Mulch]

Pretty sure lalendra is scum

@Skitter

When i die

[Wossi]

Its almost like Serg is trying to be more erratic after multiple people said town!serg is more erratic, especially this L-1 on-and-off-again little stunt

[Sergtacos]

Pretty sure lalendra is scum

@Skitter

When i die

VOTE: lalendra