Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[Wossi]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

[wavemode]

Effort? I snip when I quote, sue me. It takes two clicks and it makes things look cleaner

Also, incriminating? Where exactly did I say skitter was scummy?

I'm just trying to provide clarity where skitter is muddying the water with untrue statements

[Lalendra]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

[iDanyboy]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

VOTE: Lalendra

[Lalendra]

LOL if only I was scum as often as people think I am.

[Lalendra]

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

[Chip Butty]

It's possible I misunderstood, but even so, this is a game of mafia, and to beleive what someone says at face value during the RVS is a little ludicrous.

So why? Why would someone claim scum? Even in RVS, what might someone be thinking when they claim that?

Town should never lie

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Scum claiming scum is scum and should be lynched
Town claiming scum is lying and should be lynched

Reading through the wossi ISO. LAL isn't a terrible policy, as someone has pointed out. If wossi has shown that policy in other games it would make him look better. Wossi, can you point to other games as town where you've been LAL?

Nyet, because I have one other game and its ongoing.
Which is why its so weird that Mulch says his meta from me comes from somewhere other then that specific. If he says explaining further is against site rules, I'm not going to push it too much further. That said, it is odd that he could specify his meta didnt come from wavemodes game, but now can no longer discuss. It's a very convenient way to end discussion and avoid repercussions from an untrue statement.

D'oh i should have remembered you don't have much meta here, because it's the basis of my scumread of wave. Have you played much mafia elsewhere?

Response to implosion when i get back.

[Chip Butty]

Actually, one thing that struck me about the Mulch meta thinking about it more is that in his scum games i have seen, he has only been openly hostile to players who are scumreading him, and he often loses control under pressure.

Also, he thinks his town and scum games are indistinguishable, so he might be trying to play in a different style here as either alignment.

Finally he knows part of my meta read of him from Open 698, so the fact he attacked my ability so vehemently seems calculated to make me think he is scum, but why would he do that as either alignment? Thing is, i picked him as probscum in that game (and he was), but he failed to pick my PR.

[Sephiroth]

@Seph/Mulch - If you get me lynched, when I flip town, who are you going to look at next, and why?

My scum reads are Mulch and you, followed by serg. Still can't decide what to make of Sergs seemingly random play. I get bad vibes from wavemode and wicked. I need to reread Chip's post explosion tonight to get a better sense but I'm happy to see them post more. Implosion needs to post more. They've done a better job engaging with the game than you have, but are still doing some lurking in plain sight. Who the hell knows with tiam. The meta suggests to me that theyre scum but I'd rather lynch one of my stronger reads since most people seem to read that meta the opposite way. I read Dany Skitter and Flub as town and I don't think you being town has significant impact on how I read those players.

I'm not sure what you flipping town would do to my reads. I don't have strong feelings on associations between players atm as I usually start to look at that more closely at the start of D2. I feel the least confident in my reads on [wavemode wicked chip serg tiam and implosion] so those are the the players I'd want to probe a bit tomorrow.

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Care to explain? Surely you don't read Mulch town based on your logic in 580 alone....

[Chip Butty]

Mulch's usual strategy is to try to soft buddy me, and i initially found his playstyle easy to townread. But since i poked at him in Open 698 he has changed his tune to discrediting, since his old routine isn't working anymore.

[skitter30]

@wave:

Spoiler:

but he literally could never explain *why* he was town based on meta or anything in game

This is the second time in the same game you are taking someone who's explained plenty, but you simply disagree with the explanations, and then turn around and say they have no explanation

You either need a more open mind or better precision of language. Probably both

I townread Wossi on meta

I can't talk about ongoing games

some gut, some logical, some meta, and not the least of which is the speed of the growth of his wagon.

I don't consider any of this an 'explanation', but tbh I think we might be quibbling over the definition of 'explanation'.

And yeah pre-flips ought to be avoided. Joining awful wagons on people you don't scumread ought to be avoided too.

For clarity, 'you' here is referring to people in general, not implosion in particular.

I'm pretty sure this quote is about someone from a different game that played with Skitter in the past? Why did you snip it out of context?

+1

Even in context, she's saying I'm doing the same thing when I'm clearly and demonstrably not

This kinda sounds like you're agreeing you took it out of context? ('Even in context' - specifically the 'even').

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Can you explain like all of these? (especially the scumreads?)

Tbh I'm not super feeling a lalendra lynch right now. She feels more disengaged/out-of-it then scummy to me.

[Chip Butty]

I guess what i am saying is that I'm pulling back from my initial meta read of Mulch. His play here is similar to scum.mulch but now i realise it is different in some respects too. I have a visceral dislike for the way he has played here, and was probably influenced by that. Taco too, since Mulch joined the game.

[TwoInAMillion]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

I always love when someone declares themselves locktown.

[Chip Butty]

Not to say i think Mulch is town now, just that I'm refining my neta read, and maybe giving it less weight in my overall assessment.

[Chip Butty]

^meta

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.10:

Mulch (5)

- Flubbernugget, Chip Butty, skitter30, Wossi, Sephiroth

Wossi (3)

- Lalendra, Wickedestjr, TwoInAMillion

Lalendra (3)

- Sergtacos, Mulch, iDanyboy

Chip Butty (1)

- implosion

Sergtacos (1)

- wavemode

Not Voting (0)

-

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is at 3pm GMT on Sunday 26th November 2017 ((expired on 2017-11-26 15:00:00))

[wavemode]

POST 666

[Sergtacos]

POST 666

the devil ^

[Lalendra]

My scum reads are Mulch and you, followed by serg.

In post 373, Mulch wrote:
If I was scum right now I would be going in the mafia chat. Hope this can help peolle think I'm town.
This comment feels weird to me because it relies on the knowledge that scum have day chat. You went straight to the OP immediately after replacing in to check if scum had day talk?

uhh

I guess I assumed

Haven't read the OP actually

This feels sincere because it would have been too easy as scum to say "of course, that's the first thing I do when I replace in, doesn't everyone?"
Mulch is basically locktown for me at this point.

I think as scum he is *very* capable of going after harder targets. He's capable of doing that as town too. I don't know why he's going after the easy pushes here. This doesn't exactly match his scum game, but this is sooooo far off from how he plays town that I'm having a really hard time seeing town!Mulch here.

He did say right off the bat that it was going to be low-effort from him, so I would think that going after "easy pushes" could potentially correlate with that. But without using meta (I try not to because it can be so easily manipulated, especially when people start pointing out someone's meta, and also because my posting/playing style pretty much always has me pegged as scum when I never am), the way he was trying to parse the game at first, the honesty about not having fully caught up, the indecision about his reads, etc. really does give me a very town vibe.
P-edit: It didn't seem mysterious to me, he did explain why his read changed.

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

If the three of us are scum then I am doing the absolute most obvious buddying and shit-tastic scum play ever.

[Lalendra]

I do still believe that Mulch/Serg are town though. So is flub. Scum is in chip/dany/tiam/wossi. The rest are null for me at the moment.

Care to explain? Surely you don't read Mulch town based on your logic in 580 alone....

In post 373, Mulch wrote:
If I was scum right now I would be going in the mafia chat. Hope this can help peolle think I'm town.
This comment feels weird to me because it relies on the knowledge that scum have day chat. You went straight to the OP immediately after replacing in to check if scum had day talk?

uhh

I guess I assumed

Haven't read the OP actually

This feels sincere because it would have been too easy as scum to say "of course, that's the first thing I do when I replace in, doesn't everyone?"
Mulch is basically locktown for me at this point.

I don't believe that he is town based on the logic put forth in a post where I literally declared him locktown? Your meter is slipping from green to red for me...

[Lalendra]

Mulch town

Lalendra scum

Serg town

I think you're right on 2/3.

I agree, two out of three. Lalendra is scum and Serg is town. Mulch, however, is scum

All three of us are locktown.

I always love when someone declares themselves locktown.

Well, for me the two of them are locktown, and I know my own alignment, so yeah. Valid statement.

[Lalendra]

Not to mention that it would be fairly obvious bussing if BOTH of my scumbuddies were on my wagon. That, combined with the fact that I am so confident that they are town DESPITE the fact that they are voting me, should be all the evidence you need. I retract my earlier reads list; you are just manufacturing scumtells at this point, not to mention the blatant misrep re: my 580.

VOTE: Sephiroth

[Sephiroth]

I think as scum he is *very* capable of going after harder targets. He's capable of doing that as town too. I don't know why he's going after the easy pushes here. This doesn't exactly match his scum game, but this is sooooo far off from how he plays town that I'm having a really hard time seeing town!Mulch here.

He did say right off the bat that it was going to be low-effort from him, so I would think that going after "easy pushes" could potentially correlate with that. But without using meta (I try not to because it can be so easily manipulated, especially when people start pointing out someone's meta, and also because my posting/playing style pretty much always has me pegged as scum when I never am), the way he was trying to parse the game at first, the honesty about not having fully caught up, the indecision about his reads, etc. really does give me a very town vibe.
P-edit: It didn't seem mysterious to me, he did explain why his read changed.

I have no idea in what universe the stuff you cite here could give a town vibe. Like if someone does a bunch of scummy shit and then is like 'hey guys I'm gonna do all this scummy shit' suddenly you think they're town because they're being honest about how they're going to do scummy shit?

If the three of us are scum then I am doing the absolute most obvious buddying and shit-tastic scum play ever.

Why does me scumreading the three of you necessitate that all three of you are scum together? I'm not going to delude myself into thinking everyone I have a scum read on D1 = the scum team. That would be silly. It just means I independently find each of you to be the scummiest in the game. I stated as much in my previous post to you:

I don't have strong feelings on associations between players atm as I usually start to look at that more closely at the start of D2.

Why are you dedicating so much time to contradicting the possibility of yall being scum together, when that is not only NOT a point I'm making but a point that I've explicitly said that I'm not making, directly to you?

---

I don't believe that he is town based on the logic put forth in a post where I literally declared him locktown? Your meter is slipping from green to red for me...

Are you purposefully misunderstanding me here? I'm not doubting that 580 is you voicing your town read nor did I ever imply that you weren't doing that in 580. The point of that post is pretty clearly to ask for ADDITIONAL reasons that you are ready to town-lock Mulch, because I don't think the logic in 580 is anywhere near sufficient for a town read and especially not a town lock. Thats why it says 'based on 580 alone'. Its a quesiton, which you answered. And now I have responded with why I don't like the additional reasons from your answer. This is how mafia works, back and forth discussion. How is asking you for a better explanation of your reads in any way shape or form manufacturing tells, or a misrep? For christ's sake it was a

question

to clarify what your posts meant, the exact opposite of representing your stance in any way.

[Sephiroth]

Not to mention that it would be fairly obvious bussing if BOTH of my scumbuddies were on my wagon. That, combined with the fact that I am so confident that they are town DESPITE the fact that they are voting me, should be all the evidence you need.

This is about 10000 times more of a misrep of my stance than anything I said about you lmao. This is literally only an argument against my reads all being scum

together

, which is not my stance at all. And again, I explicitly told you that I don't think too much of associations until start of D2. Since no alignments are known its fairly useless to as a basis of reads on the first day, imo.

[Wossi]

Lalendra, you don't get to awkwardly role fish and then expect anyone to consider you town, let alone locktown. Also your 668 is just gushing WIFOM. The "scum would be stupid to make a move like this!" line of though doesnt work when you're the one using it on yourself.